Amtrak Superliner vs Boeing 737

[pldenc44]

Most of us think of a passenger jet being much bigger than a train car, but a 737's passenger space is only slightly larger than a single Superliner car. There are almost twice as many passengers packed into a similar size passenger space. If passenger rail is ever privatized, it seems very likely that we would see rail seating density go up. This could bring down prices, but whether its a good or a bad thing overall is debatable.

 

Boeing 737-800

Seating: 175

Length: 130 feet (includes cockpit and tail)

Height: 13.1 feet (fuselage)

Width: 12.3 feet

Weight: 46 tons

Cost: $81 million

Amtrak Superliner

Seating: 96

Length: 85 feet

Height: 16.1 feet

Width: 10.1 feet

Weight: 74 tons

Cost: $2.5 million

 

[railiner]

Most of us think of a passenger jet being much bigger than a plane, but a 737's passenger space is only slightly larger than a single Superliner car. There are almost twice as many passengers packed into a similar size passenger space. If passenger rail is ever privatized, it seems very likely that we would see rail seating density go up. This could bring down prices, but whether its a good or a bad thing overall is debatable.

Boeing 737-800

Seating: 175

Length: 130 feet (includes cockpit and tail)

Height: 13.1 feet

Width: 12.3 feet

Weight: 46 tons

Cost: $81 million

Amtrak Superliner

Seating: 96

Length: 85 feet

Height: 16.1 feet

Width: 10.1 feet

Weight: 74 tons

Cost: $2.5 million

A strange comparo!

Where did you get your numbers? Superliner coaches I am familiar with carry 62 to 78 seats, depending on configuration....

And a 737 only 13.1 feet high? That must be from the top of the fuselage to the bottom, not including the height from the ground to the bottom. You should also deduct the height of the bottom of the Superliner from the top of the rail....

 

[Blackwolf]

Two thoughts on privatization:

• Seating density would undoubtedly become more crowded for standard coach, and the current pitch available would be marketed as a "Premium Economy Class" much like nearly all the legacy airline carriers have done with their former standard coach seat pitch.
• No, I don't think there will be a reduction in price. If anything, coach fares will stay the same and in some markets, they will get more expensive.

 

[Swadian Hardcore]

1. Adjusted for inflation, a Superliner actually costs $4,000,000.

2. On another note, the standard 737 seat pitch is 31 inches. Superliner seat pitch is 50 inches.

3. I cannot understand "passenger jet bigger than plane" in the OP. I thought a passenger jet was a type of plane, you know.....

These are adding on to Railiner's corrections.

 

[pldenc44]

Just quick numbers off Wikipedia. Yes the height is the fuselage height. It's just insane how tightly they pack airlines. I don't think it started out that way, but over time they've had to increase density to stay profitable. A train can never be as dense as a plane since travel times are so much longer, but I think we would see density increase if private money took over.

 

[dabrilloman]

Just quick numbers off Wikipedia. Yes the height is the fuselage height. It's just insane how tightly they pack airlines. I don't think it started out that way, but over time they've had to increase density to stay profitable. A train can never be as dense as a plane since travel times are so much longer, but I think we would see density increase if private money took over.

If the trains were privatized I would not be surprised to see them stuff us in like they do on airplanes. Regardless of the length of the trip. It's all about profit in private buriness,(the CEO's need their millions!), to squeeze as much out of us as they squeeze as many of us in there as they can. Without government regulations you WILL have seat backs in your knees and tray tables in your chest! I would even bet you see 5-6 seats across and an aisle you would have to side step in!

Sightsee cars disappear, I hate to even think what would happen with diners and meals! No more bringing on board your own food, not to mention baggage fees and you will see fees out the wazoo!

Call me a pessimist if you want, but from what I have seen how big business operates, we are nothing but cattle with wallets that need to be vacuumed cleaned!

 

[benjibear]

Would be curious to see the actual differences in the passenger compartments.

 

[ParrotRob]

In reality, most 737-800s aren't configured for 175. That's an absolute maximum, and most are configured for 152-160.

 

[ParrotRob]

Don't forget, no one spends 2 days on a 737, either. It's apples and oranges. You should put a cruise ship in there for comparison, too.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Don't forget, no one spends 2 days on a 737, either.

Never been delayed on the airport tarmac, have you? :giggle:

 

[jphjaxfl]

Railroad passenger cars would still be subject to FRA standards for safety reasons. A train is more apt to have a crash where crowded conditions would result in more casualties. If a crowded 737 or any other plane crashes, there are few survivors.

 

[BuzzKillington]

I believe Southwest Airlines only has 137 seats in their 737 planes. Leg room seems adequate in there as well. I have a very difficult time convincing my family (and a lot of times myself) that I should take a train between 2 major cities instead of a plane. I can't justify it when I can usually fly for around the same price in coach. Adding a room makes Amtrak completely noncompetitive and as much as people complain about them, the TSA really isn't that bad.

 

[jis]

I believe Southwest Airlines only has 137 seats in their 737 planes. Leg room seems adequate in there as well. I have a very difficult time convincing my family (and a lot of times myself) that I should take a train between 2 major cities instead of a plane. I can't justify it when I can usually fly for around the same price in coach. Adding a room makes Amtrak completely noncompetitive and as much as people complain about them, the TSA really isn't that bad.

Southwest does not have Boeing 737-800s which is what the OP mentioned in his post. Typical seating in what Southwest has - 737-700 and 737-300 is about 140 or so in single class. The corresponding number for the 737-800 is 175. Southwest uses a seat pitch of 32". Acela BC seats are 42". Superliner Coach seats are 50".

 

[PRR 60]

I believe Southwest Airlines only has 137 seats in their 737 planes. Leg room seems adequate in there as well. I have a very difficult time convincing my family (and a lot of times myself) that I should take a train between 2 major cities instead of a plane. I can't justify it when I can usually fly for around the same price in coach. Adding a room makes Amtrak completely noncompetitive and as much as people complain about them, the TSA really isn't that bad.

Southwest does not have Boeing 737-800s which is what the OP mentioned in his post. Typical seating in what Southwest has - 737-700 and 737-300 is about 140 or so in single class. The corresponding number for the 737-800 is 175. Southwest uses a seat pitch of 32". Acela BC seats are 42". Superliner Coach seats are 50".

Actually, SWA has just introduced the 737-800 to their fleet.

SWA Press Release

 

[VentureForth]

First of all, I believe that your dimensioning is flawed. I can't find real good accurate information, but keep in mind that people don't fly in the tail of an aircraft.

When you compare just the living space (interior dimensions) of [which Amtrak configuration - I used Amfleet II, 72 occupant] to the living space of [which 737 configuration - I used -800, 175 occupant], compare seat pitch, seat width, and aisle width. When you do that, it looks to me that Amtrak's allocated space per passenger is almost double that of the airplane (10 sq. ft vs 5 sq ft). Now, the Amfleet has a much larger vestibule and restroom. But the aircraft has 3 restrooms, a galley, and a vestibule that takes up about as much space.

All this being said, I find it remarkably unfair to assume that if Amtrak was privatized that it would decrease seat pitch to 30" and seat width to 16". First, in my experience, the fundamental premise of privatization is to turn a profit - or at least attempt to. This has worked remarkably well in Japan and to a lesser degree in the UK. In the last 30 years, Japan Rail has turned over rolling stock nearly three times as frequently as was done before privatization. Equipment improves but so does cost. Quite frankly, if Amtrak isn't doing exactly what a private business would be doing with their assets, they are ignoring their congressional mandate. Their mandate is to provide passenger rail service where viable and operate as a for profit corporation. They are not a charity.

India Rail has an extraordinary capacity to become a top notch, world class railroad if they are ever privatized. But their function as a charity to the poorest of the poor (India poor, not even close to US poor) keeps it a political hot potato that will likely never be dropped.

 

[Trogdor]

Southwest does not have Boeing 737-800s

.
Do a google search for N8301J.

Typical seating in what Southwest has - 737-700 and 737-300 is about 140 or so in single class.

737-500s seat 122. 737-300s and -700s seat 137 in the old configuration. However, they are introducing a new interior that will seat 143.

Their 737-800s seat 175 using the same new seating found in their 143-seat -700s.

 

[jis]

I believe Southwest Airlines only has 137 seats in their 737 planes. Leg room seems adequate in there as well. I have a very difficult time convincing my family (and a lot of times myself) that I should take a train between 2 major cities instead of a plane. I can't justify it when I can usually fly for around the same price in coach. Adding a room makes Amtrak completely noncompetitive and as much as people complain about them, the TSA really isn't that bad.

Southwest does not have Boeing 737-800s which is what the OP mentioned in his post. Typical seating in what Southwest has - 737-700 and 737-300 is about 140 or so in single class. The corresponding number for the 737-800 is 175. Southwest uses a seat pitch of 32". Acela BC seats are 42". Superliner Coach seats are 50".

Actually, SWA has just introduced the 737-800 to their fleet.

SWA Press Release

And they have 170+ seats, unless SW has decided to leave a quarter of the floor space empty or increase pitch proportionately to limit themselves to 137 seats.

 

[jis]

Southwest does not have Boeing 737-800s

.
Do a google search for N8301J.

Right. Not in Seatguru yet though. Mea culpa.

Typical seating in what Southwest has - 737-700 and 737-300 is about 140 or so in single class.

737-500s seat 122. 737-300s and -700s seat 137 in the old configuration. However, they are introducing a new interior that will seat 143.

Their 737-800s seat 175 using the same new seating found in their 143-seat -700s.

Good to know. Thanks.

 

[Texan Eagle]

I do not feel if private players jump in to run Amtrak, they will outright reduce the pitch and seat width to US domestic airline standards. What I see happening is, they would probably introduce a new class, call it coach, and have a more dense layout than existing Viewliner/Superliner coach and keep the coaches with existing pitch/width as Business Class/Premium Class/Whatever Fancy Jargon Class. So for those of you worrying about losing tremendous pitch, it will still be available, just be ready to pay more for it. As far as I am concerned, if it is a 4-5 hour daytime run, I don't mind more densely packed coach at all. I have traveled several times in AC Chair Car class on Indian Railways that has much lesser pitch and width than Amtrak but more comfortable than airline Economy class, and I have had a very comfortable 6 hour journey. Look at this-

I would happily travel in privatized Amtrak coaches with seating arrangement similar to seen in this photo.

 

[PRR 60]

Southwest does not have Boeing 737-800s

.
Do a google search for N8301J.

Right. Not in Seatguru yet though. Mea culpa.

Typical seating in what Southwest has - 737-700 and 737-300 is about 140 or so in single class.

737-500s seat 122. 737-300s and -700s seat 137 in the old configuration. However, they are introducing a new interior that will seat 143.

Their 737-800s seat 175 using the same new seating found in their 143-seat -700s.

Good to know. Thanks.

Not only 738's, but ETOPS 738's. Hmm.

 

[Trogdor]

They plan to fly to Hawaii eventually with their 738s.

 

[PRR 60]

They plan to fly to Hawaii eventually with their 738s.

That what I was thinking.

 

[PerRock]

For comparison, the "Cheap" airline over in Europe Ryanair uses 738's and has them set up at a capacity of 189 people; with 30" pitch.

and here is a pic of the interior: http://www.airliners.net/photo/Ryanair/Boeing-737-8AS/1240838/M/

peter

 

[dabrilloman]

For comparison, the "Cheap" airline over in Europe Ryanair uses 738's and has them set up at a capacity of 189 people; with 30" pitch.

and here is a pic of the interior: http://www.airliners...-8AS/1240838/M/

peter

Cripes! 6 seats across in a737! Can you say MOO?!?!?

 

[Texan Eagle]

For comparison, the "Cheap" airline over in Europe Ryanair uses 738's and has them set up at a capacity of 189 people; with 30" pitch.

and here is a pic of the interior: http://www.airliners...-8AS/1240838/M/

peter

Cripes! 6 seats across in a737! Can you say MOO?!?!?

Umm welcome out of the rock under which you seem to be living since decades. All 737s, 757s, Airbus A320 family are 6 seats across in Economy class in all airlines, nothing bad about it specific to Ryanair.

And hey, comparing Amtrak with Ryanair? Seriously? Are we now that desperate to prove how much better Amtrak is and how much anti-air we are that we have to pull in the lowest of the low airline and pitch it up against trains? Tsk tsk.

And btw, as much as you may crib about Ryanair, it is one of the very few airlines in the world that is actually churning out profit. If cramped seating was THAT bad, I'd guess passengers would have fled elsewhere long back.