Amtrak should be dismantled response.

[AmtrakBlue]

As an example, my mom was freaking out about my upcoming trip to SF. She thinks the plane will crash, we'll get lost, we'll get mugged, there will be an earthquake, I'll get eaten by a shark on my way to Alcatraz, all kinds of stuff.
I told her that we could stay home, but what's to say our gas stove won't explode, we won't get hit by a deadly tornado, we won't get into a car accident on the way to the grocery store, etc. That didn't make her feel better (she yelled at me ^_^ ), but it got my point across.

Totally agree.

 

[VentureForth]

There were plenty of unattended bags that nobody knew who they belonged to, so it would be very easy for someone to board, leave a bag and de-train at a station only to leave a terrible encounter for those still on the train.
Also, we had a man in the sleeper next to us that de-trained and then another individual boarded at the same stop. When our attendant came to set our seats, I said "wow, you really turned that room over quickly" and he proceeded to tell me that flips like that are common and makes his job very high energy and he needed to stay organized, but it was for nothing because the passenger that was supposed to board didn't. I looked puzzled at him, because I saw a different man go into the room than was in there previously, and I said "you know someone is in there, right?". At which time, he said no, and knocked on the door to check the man's ticket. So, someone was able to board without the sleeper attendant even knowing.

To each their own, but I didn't feel comfortable without any oversight. I think that would be my biggest complaint with the trip.

I truly understand your concerns. And I may not be very comforting in stating that Amtrak would truly be a fairly easy target. However, you can't steer a train into a building. Someone could certainly cause damage to the tune of hundreds of lives. But that is true in just about any setting - whether a [more efficient] bomb at a marathon, a fertilizer plant, etc. We are all at risk of dying, simply by living.

I am getting very frustrated by locked threads, too. Unless there is a violation of the rules posted, I don't care if the thread is about potties, or started by a troll, or resurrected from 15 years ago. THREADS SHOULDN'T BE JUST ARBITRARILY LOCKED. The ONLY two reasons why a thread should be locked is because A) It violates the rules of the forum and is beginning to create HIGH tension and anxiety (ie: Politics, Religion, Sex), or B) There is another thread that was already started on the same topic and it's within the first 2 pages, in which case lock it if it's one post, merge it if there is dicussion.

VentureForth,
Threads are rarely "arbitrarily" locked. And in fact, most times if they are locked it is either after the entire staff has discussed the issue or it is locked by one pending the further discussion of the staff. The same thing can also happen via hiding either specific posts or the entire topic. Hidden posts may or may not be restored, depending on the issue. Hidden topics are almost always restored, once the issues that caused it to be hidden have been dealt with.

That said, I do regret to inform you that we have slightly different standards than the ones that you outlined. Sorry! However, as a few other people have noted and I have personally seen myself, by comparison to some other railfan forums, we lock very few threads here. And I can promise you, like I did TVM, that I will always be happy to discuss things further in private if someone disagrees with a locking. I make no promises other than to discuss things, but I am willing to discuss.

I tried to do that once on another forum that I won't mention, even pointing out to the Admin who locked the thread because he thought it some railfan's fantasy that it was actually true and I provided a link to the source, and the Admin basically told me "he didn't realize that it was true, but he couldn't be bothered to reopen the topic either." And it wasn't my thread, I was defending another person. That left a really bad taste in my mouth, which is one reason that I rarely go there anymore. And again, why I promise to discuss and seriously consider the other side.

Thank you AlanB, and I know that you know that I've talked about the situation that sparked this scenario with other mods already and that we've come to an amicable understanding. I am a moderator in another rail-related forum and though I've not had to deal with things personally, have read where the other mods have. By the way, I think my rules are pretty close to y'alls, without having reviewed them...

I have called nobody a name or uneducated.

Jater did, in the first post of this colossal thread. Sorry you felt that was directed to you - it wasn't. It just hit a LOT of people in this thread and left a sore eye.

 

[SarahZ]

We were in roomette 14, and the announcement DID come over the speaker that they would start in sleepers, then to coach, return to your seats/sleepers etc. So we did, opened door/curtain and waited. This happened very shortly before going into ALQ for the long stop. People de-trained, and then when we got back on the train we talked to rooms 11, 12, 13 and asked if they had gotten reservations. They said no, so we all brought it up to our attendant and he went to the dining room for all of us. He came back with 2 reservations for 2 people and advised that the dining car was booked. So that left rooms with no reservations. We let the couples in 11 and 12 take the reservations. We got lunch in our sleeper. I just wanted to follow up that it was not understanding how to do the lunch reservations, but rather we were all indeed skipped before moving on to the coach cars and the dining car filled to capacity at all times for that lunch.

This could be part of the issue. Did those people de-train with you as well? If you aren't in your room when the LSA comes around for reservations, they skip you. That's why they tell you to return to your room.

If those other people didn't de-train, then it's definitely a service issue. I'm glad you were able to get lunch after all. It was kind of you to give your reservation to the other two rooms. Jater didn't include that part. He made it sound like you didn't get lunch at all. Thank you for clarifying.

 

[VentureForth]

I went back and reviewed some of Jater's previous posts. I gotta say that I am bummed for him and his sister for the experience that he had.

They looked forward to this trip for a half year. That's a long time to get excited about a first time experience. He admittedly stalked here for a while to get a feel for the place, made a guest posting or two, then joined. We, as a community, also helped him get a better price for his roomette.

When you anticipate an incredible experience that is anything but, you feel jilted for sure. I understand. Perhaps we as a community didn't paint the full level of expectations for them. I don't know. I feel particularly anguished, though, that he felt necessary to post hateful comments directed squarely at us for his poor experience. His sister has come on board to help us understand the reality of the situation, and I truly appreciate that.

For anyone reading this that is thinking about taking Amtrak over a long distance, please understand that service is anything but consistent. Equipment is far from factory new. Unanticipated events should be anticipated. But most of all, your mileage certainly may vary. I always hope for the best, but plan for the worst. Having a background in customer service, it's really easy to get frustrated with the lack, thereof, when encountered.

They did their best to ask questions before the trip. Unfortunately, it appears that the questions asked didn't fit the experience of the ride.

Jater - I HOPE that you have an opportunity to enjoy another ride on Amtrak with the proper expectations set aside. Rooms aren't cheap, but you should have considerably better service and attention than in coach. IF there was anything that you enjoyed about the trip, I encourage you to post it. If you felt anything was unsafe or unprofessional, send a detailed email to Customer Service. If you see an unattended bag, See Something SAY SOMETHING.

Jater's Sister - Did you enjoy the trip? I understand you both had issues, but was it unsurmountable? I can't make you or anyone love Amtrak. My wife doesn't even want to ride with me to places. If I can't convince her... LOL

Thanks to both of you for contributing here.

 

[jsreeves]

I am a fairly new member and a long time lurker.

I have yet to take my first Amtrak trip, but will be doing so in the next couple of weeks after having to postpone an earlier planned trip.

I have to say that this community has painted a very realistic picture of what to expect.

Yes, I have high expectations, but I also realize that there are many variables that can affect my trip.

All one has to do is read all of the many trip reports to realize that every trip is not perfect.

 

[Eric308]

I am a fairly new member and a long time lurker.I have yet to take my first Amtrak trip, but will be doing so in the next couple of weeks after having to postpone an earlier planned trip.

I have to say that this community has painted a very realistic picture of what to expect.

Yes, I have high expectations, but I also realize that there are many variables that can affect my trip.

All one has to do is read all of the many trip reports to realize that every trip is not perfect.

Great attitude! With thinking like that I predict you will have a wonderful trip,

 

[SarahZ]

This forum helped me a lot too, back when I was lurking. I'd never taken Amtrak LD, and I was planning to sit in Coach since I couldn't afford a room. I found lots of topics, full of pros and cons, from members and other guests, and it really did help me plan accordingly.

I didn't mean to jump all over Jater, honestly; his tone simply sent me straight to the red zone. I was too insulted to ask for clarifications. I'm glad his sister stopped by to talk about everything. I really do feel bad that their first trip went badly, especially since they spent money on a sleeper, and I hope they'll both give Amtrak another chance.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Without this forum, it NEVER would have occurred to me to bring duct tape on a train. Now, I wouldn't think of traveling without it!

 

[JoeBas]

It is sad, but there are more of me. Most of my peer group had just graduated high school when 9/11 occurred.
So we know two types of security oversight. Pre 9/11- Parental Oversight and Post 9/11- Government Oversight. We don't remember ever not having oversight in our lives. As young parents, we talk about this often. As sad as I am for my generation, it is even sadder for my sons, who might not be able to go to school or a movie without fear. Sad state all around.

No offense, but "I'm Scared" is no reason for the world to change to fit your phobias. It sounds like it's a growth opportunity for you to join the rest of us out here in the land of the free...

 

[PaulM]

I have talked to other passengers that have told me even worse stories.

Have you read this forum for very long? There are lots of passengers who have had great experiences, myself included.

You need to take a class in statistics, the scientific method, and correlation/causation.

Sounds like overkill. I'm sure a 5 minute introduction to the Poisson process, in laymen's jargon of course, would do the trick.

 

[SarahZ]

I have talked to other passengers that have told me even worse stories.

Have you read this forum for very long? There are lots of passengers who have had great experiences, myself included.

You need to take a class in statistics, the scientific method, and correlation/causation.

Sounds like overkill. I'm sure a 5 minute introduction to the Poisson process, in laymen's jargon of course, would do the trick.

I'd never heard of it, so I hopped over to Wiki to learn about it, and now my head hurts. I get the premise, but the math... oy.

 

[PaulM]

If you're not in your room then you're going to get last choice on the list or not be on it at all if it gets filled up by the time they make it to the Sightseer Lounge.

I didn't like the OP's emotions on his sleeve diatribe either; and the "refused lunch reservation because they filled them with "coach" passengers" sounds fishy to me. But your comment can't be correct. How could the list get filled up, not a big enough piece of paper? Sleeping car passengers are entitle to a meal even if they happen to be in the sightseer and wind up at the bottom of the list. Managers have access to the reservation system and have a duty to staff the dining car accordingly.

Newbies can't be expected to know to the finer points of dinner reservation wishes of the on board service staff, which change from train to train and day to day anyway. And we all know that the IC is not always functional in every car.

I've always thought refusing coach passengers a meal in the dining car is a sharp business practice, although I'm pretty sure it's not a business practice, rather somebody making up rules as they go along, if this actually happens. Refusing a sleeping car passenger a meal is one of those things that needs to be squashed, but only a rational complaint to customer service can do it.

 

[PaulM]

I'd never heard of it (the Poisson process), so I hopped over to Wiki to learn about it, and now my head hurts. I get the premise, but the math... oy.

Actually I was joking about Poisson. We're really dealing here with estimating the parameter of the binomial distribution (please don't go look that one up :angry: ). The question is did he take one ride, observe X happen and then conclude the likelihood of X occurring is 100%. Or did he take 100 rides and observe X happening 100 times. Needless to say, I would be more willing to listen if it were the latter.

Poisson deals with rare events. It would tell us, for example, that if a train hasn't hit a gate crasher in a long time and then hits 2 in a week, that nothing necessarily has changed. Drivers didn't get stupider, engineers more agressive, or the FRA laxer. It's just the way random events occur.

 

[SarahZ]

I actually understand binomial distribution. My comment to him about learning about statistics was tongue-in-cheek anyway. I was ticked off.

 

[Guest]

I went back and reviewed some of Jater's previous posts. I gotta say that I am bummed for him and his sister for the experience that he had.
They looked forward to this trip for a half year. That's a long time to get excited about a first time experience. He admittedly stalked here for a while to get a feel for the place, made a guest posting or two, then joined. We, as a community, also helped him get a better price for his roomette.

When you anticipate an incredible experience that is anything but, you feel jilted for sure. I understand. Perhaps we as a community didn't paint the full level of expectations for them. I don't know. I feel particularly anguished, though, that he felt necessary to post hateful comments directed squarely at us for his poor experience. His sister has come on board to help us understand the reality of the situation, and I truly appreciate that.

For anyone reading this that is thinking about taking Amtrak over a long distance, please understand that service is anything but consistent. Equipment is far from factory new. Unanticipated events should be anticipated. But most of all, your mileage certainly may vary. I always hope for the best, but plan for the worst. Having a background in customer service, it's really easy to get frustrated with the lack, thereof, when encountered.

They did their best to ask questions before the trip. Unfortunately, it appears that the questions asked didn't fit the experience of the ride.

Jater - I HOPE that you have an opportunity to enjoy another ride on Amtrak with the proper expectations set aside. Rooms aren't cheap, but you should have considerably better service and attention than in coach. IF there was anything that you enjoyed about the trip, I encourage you to post it. If you felt anything was unsafe or unprofessional, send a detailed email to Customer Service. If you see an unattended bag, See Something SAY SOMETHING.

Jater's Sister - Did you enjoy the trip? I understand you both had issues, but was it unsurmountable? I can't make you or anyone love Amtrak. My wife doesn't even want to ride with me to places. If I can't convince her... LOL

Thanks to both of you for contributing here.

Hmmm... You ask if I enjoyed the trip.

I wouldn't say enjoyed, no. I think Amtrak served its purpose of a mode of tranportation. Was it better than driving that far myself? Yes. Was it better than flying? No. I say that and I hate to fly. I decided to try the train, because flying gives me a headache and I hate the turbulence. Unfortunately, the rough tracks felt far to close to turbulence for my tastes. So, instead of flying 4 hours and having occassional turbulence, I had to deal with those feelings for 30+ hours.

I don't understand the grip Amtrak has on some of the posters here as a vacation destination. I have seen posts where people rode one train out and rode another train back and that was their entire vacation bc they love the trains that much. I didn't discover this love affair with Amtrak.

The pluses- I didn't have to drive, I got there safe (even though rough track and security made me nervous at times), the meals were good, and I got to see some interesting countryside.

So I wouldn't say ENJOY, but definitely not TERRIBLE either. One of my other complaints is that it was so LONG, but can't blame Amtrak for that they were on time, I just underestimated how stir crazy I would get in the 30+ hour trip.

Would I do it again? Probably not...

 

[NW cannonball]

Hmmm... You ask if I enjoyed the trip.
I wouldn't say enjoyed, no. I think Amtrak served its purpose of a mode of tranportation. Was it better than driving that far myself? Yes. Was it better than flying? No. I say that and I hate to fly. I decided to try the train, because flying gives me a headache and I hate the turbulence. Unfortunately, the rough tracks felt far to close to turbulence for my tastes. So, instead of flying 4 hours and having occassional turbulence, I had to deal with those feelings for 30+ hours.

I don't understand the grip Amtrak has on some of the posters here as a vacation destination. I have seen posts where people rode one train out and rode another train back and that was their entire vacation bc they love the trains that much. I didn't discover this love affair with Amtrak.

The pluses- I didn't have to drive, I got there safe (even though rough track and security made me nervous at times), the meals were good, and I got to see some interesting countryside.

So I wouldn't say ENJOY, but definitely not TERRIBLE either. One of my other complaints is that it was so LONG, but can't blame Amtrak for that they were on time, I just underestimated how stir crazy I would get in the 30+ hour trip.

Would I do it again? Probably not...

Your response seems perfectly reasonable. De gustibus non disputandum.

One person's vacation can be another person's living hell.

For some, a "staycation" is good, just stay at home, but with a different outlook for a while, visit the new shops on your old street -kinda thing.

For some of the regulars here, a vacation on Amtrak is something like that.

Some are more adventurous - up to extreme rock-climbing or places where they don't understand a word of the local language.

Myself -- I can't imagine visting Las Vegas, or Disneyworld, or locking myself in to a tiny berth on a cruise ship. (But 2 nights on an aircraft carrier (Tiger Cruise) , in less space than an Amtrak roomette, way down in the layers of steel, knowing the way to the mess deck but nowhere else -- I loved it.)

I can spend a day or two just wandering around a small town in Iowa or Shikoku, or a neighborhood in a totally strange big city, and love every minute (if no biting bugs or really bad smells or thieves or bandits)

Getting lost in Tokyo, around midnight, for 3 hours was, for me, just a peaceful wander. (I neither speak nor understand Japanese language).

So -- for me -- riding Amtrak is partly an adventure, partly familiar, and a top option for traveling in the USA.

Needs and tastes differ -

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Everyone is different and if you & your brother did not enjoy train travel, fine.

But for your brother to say Amtrak should be done away with because HE did not enjoy the trip is going way too far. And to say it on a forum where people like to talk about Amtrak (good & bad) is going over the top.

You say you don't like flying, but you'll do it again. Perhaps someday you'll try train travel again, but on a different route and for a shorter duration. You may be surprised & find it's not that bad after all.

 

[Linda T]

Hmmm... You ask if I enjoyed the trip.

I wouldn't say enjoyed, no. I think Amtrak served its purpose of a mode of tranportation. Was it better than driving that far myself? Yes. Was it better than flying? No. I say that and I hate to fly. I decided to try the train, because flying gives me a headache and I hate the turbulence. Unfortunately, the rough tracks felt far to close to turbulence for my tastes. So, instead of flying 4 hours and having occassional turbulence, I had to deal with those feelings for 30+ hours.

I don't understand the grip Amtrak has on some of the posters here as a vacation destination. I have seen posts where people rode one train out and rode another train back and that was their entire vacation bc they love the trains that much. I didn't discover this love affair with Amtrak.

The pluses- I didn't have to drive, I got there safe (even though rough track and security made me nervous at times), the meals were good, and I got to see some interesting countryside.

So I wouldn't say ENJOY, but definitely not TERRIBLE either. One of my other complaints is that it was so LONG, but can't blame Amtrak for that they were on time, I just underestimated how stir crazy I would get in the 30+ hour trip.

Would I do it again? Probably not...

Yes, to each his/her own. For me, I love the entire experience of the train, especially in the sleepers. I love the rocking and swaying, the clackity-clack, the horn, the people I meet, the food. I love watching the scenery go by... Of course a lot of it reminds me of my childhood when we'd take vacations from NY to the far west (by car), going up through the mountains, across prairies, and marking off states as we'd cross through them. The train floods me with all those wonderful feelings and emotions (only better because I can get up and move around). Now that said, train travel isn't perfect, but to date Amtrak has always taken care of us.

As far as safety? I've never felt unsafe on the train, and since my husband's not as into train travel now as I am, I often find myself traveling alone, something I never thought I would do. I had the good fortune one day of eating with a really nice lady lawyer. We got along quite well, and when we arrived in Fort Worth early enough to get out and walk around, she convinced me to get off and walk around with her and we had a great time. If it had just been me, I would have never felt safe enough to get off alone.

One of these days I know my luck will run out and I'll have a bad trip, but one thing I have going for me are all the wonderful trips I've taken that will outweigh the negatives of anything that happens.

 

[TinCan782]

Yes, to each his/her own. For me, I love the entire experience of the train, especially in the sleepers. I love the rocking and swaying, the clackity-clack, the horn, the people I meet, the food. I love watching the scenery go by... Of course a lot of it reminds me of my childhood when we'd take vacations from NY to the far west (by car), going up through the mountains, across prairies, and marking off states as we'd cross through them. The train floods me with all those wonderful feelings and emotions (only better because I can get up and move around). Now that said, train travel isn't perfect, but to date Amtrak has always taken care of us.

Nicely stated!

Editing the quote put it with the wrong person. Nicely stated Linda T.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

I've been thinking about Amtrak security, & honestly I think I feel safer on a train than I do anywhere else. Maybe I'm naive, but I'm just not worried about train bombers. Considering we're all locked up on a train together, I'm not really worried about thieves. I do hide my electronics and such when I go to the dining car, but I don't leave them visible in my windows at home either.

And as for ID checks and such - what, exactly, are the conductors checking for? As far as I'm aware, they check your IDs at the airport to make sure someone on the No Fly list isn't trying to pass themselves off as someone else. Again, AFAIK, the "No Fly Rule" only applies to commercial airlines - there is no "No Ride" rule for Amtrak, so what exactly are they checking for?

I'm sure there's some potential for some kind of scam if the person who buys a ticket (online or in person, but either way without an ID) isn't the person who is riding, but that's more Amtrak-related than security-related.

As others have said, you could get blown up by terrorists at a grocery store or a movie theater just as easily as on a train. And they don't scan your ID at a movie theater or grocery store either. Why should the train be any different?

 

[Eric308]

For me, traveling on Amtrak is a luxury. I've traveled to all fifty states by motorcycle (lived in Hawaii where I owned one) have hitchhiked in all of them (on the road for two years after college) and have spent many a night in roadside ditches and picnic tables in rest areas. I will never tire of seeing this wonderful country over and over again. I've traveled on all of Amtrak's LD trains for years and have never had a bad experience. The only inconvenience I can think of was a delayed Cascades from PDX-SEA and I had to wait later in the day to catch the EB back east from PDX instead. That's it. I'm anxiously awaiting my next trip in two weeks back "out there" as I call it. I'm doing my 21st EB trip from CBS-PDX-SEA-CBS. I'm saddened to hear of the OP's disappointment and lack of enchantment. Maybe some folks just don't get it, and I understand that.

 

[VentureForth]

Myself -- I can't imagine visting Las Vegas, or Disneyworld, or locking myself in to a tiny berth on a cruise ship. (But 2 nights on an aircraft carrier (Tiger Cruise) , in less space than an Amtrak roomette, way down in the layers of steel, knowing the way to the mess deck but nowhere else -- I loved it.)
I can spend a day or two just wandering around a small town in Iowa or Shikoku, or a neighborhood in a totally strange big city, and love every minute (if no biting bugs or really bad smells or thieves or bandits)

Getting lost in Tokyo, around midnight, for 3 hours was, for me, just a peaceful wander. (I neither speak nor understand Japanese language).

Now I'm just getting nostalgic! I spent the first four years of my life in Tokushima on Shikoku. My folks have a pic of the only little white boy doing the awa-odori dance in a yukata. Spent my elementary years in West Tokyo (Chofu) and then my High School years just East of Tokyo in Urayasu (on the same little island Tokyo Disneyland is on). That, I believe, is what fostered my interest in passenger trains. I don't consider myself a foamer to the extent where I'm tracking serial numbers of freight locos. But I'm eternally inquisitive about people - and how they get from one place to another. To be in a crowd with 30 million of your closest neighbors, and knowing all of them are going to find a place to spend the night somewhere intrigues me on the logistics of how they get there. I would come home from school and get off the train in Shinjuku and just wander the camera stores and enjoy the lights. Irritated my parents who thought I should be home by 4:30, and I'd get home like around 6. Oops.

I would LOVE to go back to Shikoku and ride one of those single car diesels (not a train - only one car; not a trolley, it's diesel; not a DMU - no "multi"; I guess just a DU) through the mountains, get out in a local village and just enjoy.

 

[BCL]

I am a fairly new member and a long time lurker.I have yet to take my first Amtrak trip, but will be doing so in the next couple of weeks after having to postpone an earlier planned trip.

I have to say that this community has painted a very realistic picture of what to expect.

Yes, I have high expectations, but I also realize that there are many variables that can affect my trip.

All one has to do is read all of the many trip reports to realize that every trip is not perfect.

I have yet to take a real long distance trip on Amtrak, although I have ridden a couple of times on LD trains and got a feel for it with breakfast in the dining car and talking to fellow passengers as well as the staff. Some of the staff on my Capitol Corridor runs have worked LD trains before. Some said it was interesting but they'd probably never take an assignment again if they could help it.

Still - I could tell that the equipment is old but in general fairly well maintained. I've taken trains around the world. The longest train ride I took was Sydney to Melbourne overnight, and that equipment was probably older than anything on Amtrak - felt right out of the 50s. I've taken HSR in China, which is shiny and new but of course I have pause after that unfortunate lightning strike.

 

[Alexandria Nick]

As others have said, you could get blown up by terrorists at a grocery store or a movie theater just as easily as on a train. And they don't scan your ID at a movie theater or grocery store either. Why should the train be any different?

Well...so far international terrorists have not demonstrated an interest in doing so. They have, however, attacked trains. Just not here.

 

[JoeBas]

As others have said, you could get blown up by terrorists at a grocery store or a movie theater just as easily as on a train. And they don't scan your ID at a movie theater or grocery store either. Why should the train be any different?

The sad part? There are those who would respond to that with "Well they should.".

The sadder part? Once some intrepid dumb@$$ decides to carry out an attack at one of those places, our response will be "We are now".

Let's keep handing them victories, guys. It's worked so well so far.