Amtrak secret coupon smorgasbord - is it ethical?

[Guest_Gyuri_FT]

I did pick-up yestereday my tickets (SJC - PDX r/t) at the station in SJC. Before purchasing the tickets I had my share of madnass. I am from different cultural background and the entire "flexible pricing" thing on the trains is a very alien idea for me. Unfortunately more and more managers of railroads in Europe got their MBA in the States and it looks like this "new" thinking slowly penetrating the old continent, but not far to a degree like it is used here in the States.

Anyway I did browse for a while this forum: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread....t=460735&page=5 and after picking my coupon code [redacted] I made about 25% savings for the trip this November.

The madness came at the station. After a short and friendly chat with the agent I picked up my ticket but I have a habit to look for broshures around ticket counters ("who knows, what useful info can be there?") and randomly picked up one. After reading I thougt I am going to a mental hospital. The broshure I picked up was a compilation of Amtrak secret coupon codes for the ticket agents only, telling them - no joke - NEVER reveal these codes to the passenger unless explicitly asked. ***?!? How a state organization DARES to cheat its own citizens? The "blue dress with stain" in the Oval Office is not okay, but creating a smorgasbord of SECRET coupon codes is ethical?!?

Anyway, here is what all you want to know. These coupons are only for use in the west/midwest, I

am sure, the stations on the East Coast have their own list. There could be more because the coupon I did use for 25% off [redacted] wasn't even mentioned. But read, use them and think about ethics.

[redacted]

I think, Amtrak agents in San Jose were very upset about this and it's why these leaflets are publicly available at the station. What a shame, esp. that the veteran promo [redacted] is also "secret". :angry:

 

[Trogdor]

First off, Veterans Advantage is *not* a secret. It's very well advertised.

Secondly, the only thing unethical I see is that this internal list of codes is being advertised publicly.

This post ought to be removed, and Amtrak HQ ought to be contacted about station agents putting internal "secrets" out for public display.

 

[WICT106]

Most of these codes aren't secret. In fact, none of these codes are "secret" - They're all publicized in some way or another.

Concur with RMadisonwi regarding the second thing.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

I have a real problem with that. If Amtrak created these discounts, and programmed them into the reservation system, they are to be used. Any argument to the contrary doesn't make sense. Why the heck create discount codes in the first place, which you program into the reservation system and (presumably) limit by that system to particular segments, trains, dates, or whatever, as they see fit. If they don't want to have discount codes, fine, don't create them and program them into the system. Don't complain, however, if you DO create them and program them and find that people use them., however they find them. Assuming some people, somewhere, HAVE used those codes, if they then tell somebody else that a particular code exists, so what? The end result, I expect, is that Amtrak gets more customer traffic than they would otherwise, which is always the purpose for a discount, whether it's for a supermarket, an airline, a car wash, or a passenger train system. Arguments to the contrary make as much sense as weekly specials that they print one copy of and lock in a drawer somewhere. "Don't tell the customer about these" is a gold-plated certainty to make Amtrak haters of the folks who paid a higher price and then found out Amtrak had a discount available that the guy in the next seat happened to know about and therefore paid $100 less for. Get real.

 

[Guest_Gyuri_FT]

First off, Veterans Advantage is *not* a secret. It's very well advertised.
Secondly, the only thing unethical I see is that this internal list of codes is being advertised publicly.

This post ought to be removed, and Amtrak HQ ought to be contacted about station agents putting internal "secrets" out for public display.

To make it clear: using internal codes, coupons, etc. is UNETHICAL BUSINESS PRACTICE. If you feel it is a good thing for a customer to hunt for "secret" or non-secret coupon codes, mail-in rebates and similar thing - that is twisted. All discounts have to be well-publicized, open and honest. It's OK to hunt for bargains - but not to that degree. FYI: the agents of Deutsche Bundesbahn are openly encouraged to help customers save on fare or accomodation. For instance if there are several 3-bed compartments empty before the departure of the train the agent will usually tell you NOT to buy a 1st class ticket, only a second class (thus saving you a few dozen Euro) and also advise you to buy the 3-bed accomodation even if you are a couple because no conductor will let in a third person if there is a couple in the three-bed room. THIS is ethics. The secret coupons are NOT, NOT and NOT!!!

 

[Guest_Gyuri_FT]

First off, Veterans Advantage is *not* a secret.  It's very well advertised.
Secondly, the only thing unethical I see is that this internal list of codes is being advertised publicly.

This post ought to be removed, and Amtrak HQ ought to be contacted about station agents putting internal "secrets" out for public display.

And people need to have a few lessions thougt what the words: "honest handshake", "honest business", "looking each other stright in the eyes" does mean. I am a first-generation immigrant into this country and I was thinking much better of America before I became its citizen. My parents are here visiting us and they are SHOCKED!!!! YES, SHOCKED!!! seing that.

If people think, such business practice is tolerable, this is really tragic for our society.

In the contrary, if you visit web sites of Serbian, Polish, Russian, Ukrainian, Hungarian (I intentionally mention not-so-well-off places) railways, and you do understand the language (many of these sites are actually bi or tri-lingual, including English) - all possible and impossible discounts are openly mentioned and the ticketing agents are applying the discount often even if the involved aren't asking. As sign of courtesy and respect it is also common to apply certain discountswhich are intent for own citizens (senior discount) to foreign citizens without even asking. Or see above my comment regarding German Rail (Deutsche Bundesbahn) practice. What are we doing?!?

 

[AlanB]

I'm unsure about the idea of publicly posting codes, especially since I do know that it's done on other sites. The decision regarding that I will leave up to Anthony, as it is his site.

However, I will make three comments. First, I will not allow personal attacks into this discusion. Accordingly, one post has been deleted by me and another has been edited by me to remove a personal attack. This discussion will remain civil pending Anthony's decision.

Second, a reference was made to the Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA. While I don't profess to be an expert in that area, I don't believe that the FOIA would apply in the case of these discount codes. While Amtrak is largely owned and operated by the US government, it is still technically an independant corporation. Therefore I tend to believe that the FOIA would not apply here.

Now that you have the knowledge there may be nothing that they can do to stop you from spreading it around, but on the other hand I don't believe that you are entitled to the info and cannot request it under the terms of the FOIA.

Finally, please don't think that this is unique to Amtrak. This type of thing occurs in many things in life, including most things releated to travel. Airlines do it, hotels do it, and the list goes on and on.

 

[AmtrakLoverAndHater]

Well put Alan

 

[AmtrakFan]

I have seen some of them publizied in the Timetable and on Amtrak's website.

 

[trainboy325]

There is no such thing as "secret codes" at Amtrak. Marketing is an important part of building Amtrak's ridership. All the codes that were listed on this post are available to everyone that falls into their description. The reason why the codes are suppost to be "secret" is to ensure that the code is used correctly in Arrow, Amtrak's reservation system. In some cases, Amtrak receives funding grants, tax revenue match (on state supported trains) for each passenger that uses a particular code. The codes listed on this post all have one thing in common: regional promotion. These so called "discounts" are marketing and don't reflect what the government calls 90%-10% federal cash-box revenue for chartered Amtrak trains. The discounts listed are most likely the state's portion of the 10% government ticket subsidy. By law, Amtrak has to collect 90% percent of the rail fare per passenger with the federal government covering the remaining 10% (this is the issue that causes the debates about long distance train subsidy). On the state supported trains, the 10% is split among Amtrak's federal subsidy and states (based on the Amtrak-state contract).

If you look at a discounted or free ticket from Amtrak, there are two numbers: the ticket dollar value and the PNR value. The dollar value is used by the clerical staff for purposes of station remittance of funds, etc. and is found on both the ticket and receipt. The PNR value is the number used by the Inspector General's office for the purpose enforcing the 90%-10% rule and is printed within ticket section (the discount code will be listed next to it). Accomodations fees are not subject to this rule.

It's also important to remember that Amtrak is an INDEPENDENT, Congressionally chartered BUSINESS subject to the jurisdiction of the District of Columbia. Amtrak is allowed all rights and responsibilities of a private business with federal operating subsidies. NO Amtrak employee is a civil servant. Amtrak does have certain "public" rights, like exemption from income and state/local taxation, but is a private business none the less. Although some members of this forum may be upset by Amtrak's policies and practices (I am one), they have the right to do whatever they want as far as marketing, pricing and ticketing and the level of service they provide on-board. Congress always reserves the right to legislate operations because it funds the company, however, Amtrak's Board and management have pretty much free reign over the country's national passenger system. :unsure:

 

[Jay]

I just google searched one of the code names to see where I could find more info on it. Someone sold a "super-secret Amtrak code" on e-bay. The auction is now closed and yes people bid on it. This seems a little shady to me.

 

[AlanB]

I just google searched one of the code names to see where I could find more info on it. Someone sold a "super-secret Amtrak code" on e-bay. The auction is now closed and yes people bid on it. This seems a little shady to me.

Well trying to profit from information puts things into a totaly different light. That more than likely breaks a few laws, not to mention being rather unethical. It may even break EBay rules for all I know.

Freely sharing info is a horse of a different color.

 

[Guest_Gyuri_FT]

I'm unsure about the idea of publicly posting codes, especially since I do know that it's done on other sites. The decision regarding that I will leave up to Anthony, as it is his site.
However, I will make three comments. First, I will not allow personal attacks into this discusion. Accordingly, one post has been deleted by me and another has been edited by me to remove a personal attack. This discussion will remain civil pending Anthony's decision.

Second, a reference was made to the Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA. While I don't profess to be an expert in that area, I don't believe that the FOIA would apply in the case of these discount codes. While Amtrak is largely owned and operated by the US government, it is still technically an independant corporation. Therefore I tend to believe that the FOIA would not apply here.

Now that you have the knowledge there may be nothing that they can do to stop you from spreading it around, but on the other hand I don't believe that you are entitled to the info and cannot request it under the terms of the FOIA.

Finally, please don't think that this is unique to Amtrak. This type of thing occurs in many things in life, including most things releated to travel. Airlines do it, hotels do it, and the list goes on and on.

It was intent less as "personal" attack as an attack against the mentality which allows such things being happen. I am schocked even more, many people actually do defend what is in my opinion a fatally flawed system i.e. an extensive system of "cheat codes", "coupons", "mail-in rebates". This has nothing to do with a free market, just the opposite: the more such things dominte our life, the higher is the corruption. If there is a way to do things straight and simple - than it sould be. The extensive "cheat-code" system here exists because it is tolerated. In the reality it poisons everyday life. A similar computer sold by Gateway and Dell being priced differently is a natural thing. But if the price of very same system depends, do you know a "cheat" code somewhat like "$BTKM4Q44?XCC3" or not - it's a corruption.

I am very well aware, this is not unique to Amtrak. As you write correctly: "Airlines do it, hotels do it, and the list goes on and on." Indeed. In every society are some people who break the law. This cannot be an excuse for the others to do the same. As the above sample shows (with an actually valid code from Dell) - computer manufacturers do it, too.

Questions:

1)WHAT is a reason to create a secret coupon code?

2) WHAT does it promote?

3) Who does benefit from it?

 

[Guest_Gyuri_FT]

I just google searched one of the code names to see where I could find more info on it. Someone sold a "super-secret Amtrak code" on e-bay. The auction is now closed and yes people bid on it. This seems a little shady to me.

There are such auctions on fee-Bay going on since weeks. And they will continue, I am sure.

The background of this: my parents came in from Hungary a few weeks ago and since I am having a conference with Intel in Hillsboro, OR next week we thougt to combine the useful thing with fun and I could take them with me. We even got a family bedroom for $239 from SJC to PDX - and these are not easy to get. What did happen, is that the TOTAL cost was too high and my parents decided not to go. In vain I tried to speak to an Amtrak agent and reveal me "one ticket for two" promotion code. She admitted, there is - but did not wanted to tell. As a result my parents decided NOT to go, I am going alone. And as I picked up my ticket the small broshure did reveal the code - but it was too late. These folks are over 70, my dad is after a brain surgery and I do not know, will they have EVER a possibility to travel again. "Thanks", Amtrak for nothing and damn your coupons.

 

[Guest_Gyuri_FT]

I just google searched one of the code names to see where I could find more info on it. Someone sold a "super-secret Amtrak code" on e-bay. The auction is now closed and yes people bid on it. This seems a little shady to me.

Well trying to profit from information puts things into a totaly different light. That more than likely breaks a few laws, not to mention being rather unethical. It may even break EBay rules for all I know.

Freely sharing info is a horse of a different color.

Now I killed these eBay leeches. A 25 Cents (insertion fee) well-spent.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=6576510533

 

[Anthony]

Discussing the phenomenon of Amtrak discount codes, active versus passive, is fine. However, Amtrak and its partners and sponsors who make these discounts available through promotions and contracts wouldn't like it very much if they were repeated in detail here. That is not to say there is any sort of bias here, but as we are overwhelmingly supporters of Amtrak, we should probably stay true to ethical behavior and lean toward civil discussion without jeopardizing Amtrak's business by providing internal codes. I have redacted the specific codes while retaining the substance and spirit of the posts and opinions made within this thread. I did not see the posts made which were already moderated, but let's try to keep this civil in any case.

thanks,

 

[Guest_Gyuri_FT]

Discussing the phenomenon of Amtrak discount codes, active versus passive, is fine. However, Amtrak and its partners and sponsors who make these discounts available through promotions and contracts wouldn't like it very much if they were repeated in detail here. That is not to say there is any sort of bias here, but as we are overwhelmingly supporters of Amtrak, we should probably stay true to ethical behavior and lean toward civil discussion without jeopardizing Amtrak's business by providing internal codes. I have redacted the specific codes while retaining the substance and spirit of the posts and opinions made within this thread. I did not see the posts made which were already moderated, but let's try to keep this civil in any case.
thanks,

Antony,

I am listening to you; I would like you to tell me why "Coupon", "Secret Code", "Promo" is a good thing. IMHO it is pretty damn corrupt thing and is way to much abused in the Satates. It's very sad, Amtrak using it and it's even more sad, so many people defending it. I was pretty much sure, the majority of the reader here would strongly sympathize with me and condemn the coupons.

What is wrong with you guys? Don't you all see, these coupons are essentially immoral, wrong? That all people are entitled to certain information? That THIS leads to all forms of corruption? That this kind of thinking is behind of all "pork" or "pet" projects in the Congress?

It reminds me very strongly of a heated debate in the citizenship class we had a few years ago. I ws curious about the material of citizenship exam one has to pass before getting the citizenship. Not sure will I pass or not I decided to sign up for a free class - why not? So did quite a few people, too. The teacher was a young lady, a full-time history teacher. At one point we went briefly through judical system and how the courts do work. Some of us asked in detail about prosecution. We got some answers - no one was happy with. Some of us begun to stress out that:

- the system of plea bargains is wrong and amoral

- the prosecutor should never have any financial or other interest in the conviction and if he/she has it is amoral, too.

The debate begun to be very heated and the majority of attendees agreed 100% with the critics. An elderly couple from Croatia was the most loud. The teacher could not understand, why most attendees from west and middle Europe were so upset. We tried in our bad English express, why such practice is twisted and corrupt - in vain. I think, evryone went home with a massive culture shock and kept his/her opinion.

And regarding my own feelings and opinion towards Amtrak: as a train traveller since early childhood I stroly support Amtrak and strongly oppose the IMHO insane attempts to break it up etc. However, as who knows pretty well a few tariff systems in Europe (the late SMPS/EMPT, TCV/CIV, East-West multiplier system, etc.) I am in plain shock to see such IMHO tariff abuse. If the public transportation (roads, trains, airlines) would be in acceptable shape and people would be satisfied with the service they get for money - I would understand the strong support of these popular(?) coupons, secret codes, "perks" and so on. But it's not in that grat shape.

The coupons et all are intent to make an IMPRESSION of free market. In the reality, they are AGAINST free market - like every kind of price manipulation. And like every price manipulation - regardless is it for a train ticket, plane ticket, Dell computer or hotel room they are defying the freedom of market because they are made to deny some significant information to the public.

At begin it's just a harmless coupon for a Dell computer. What is the end of it?

 

[wvbaker]

Gyuri

What can we say other than, welcome to America.

Promotion codes, coupons, mail-in rebates, etc. have been around since the beginning of the retail industry. If someone takes the time and chooses to cut out a 50 cent coupon for a loaf of bread and I don’t, should I be entitled to the same 50 cents off regardless? Of course not. Consider it their entitlement or payment for taking the time and making the effort to do so. Should you choose not to make the same effort, well than, you pay 50 cents more.

There is nothing immoral or illegal about it. It’s simply compensation for an effort made.

 

[Guest_Gyuri_FT]

Gyuri
What can we say other than, welcome to America.

Promotion codes, coupons, mail-in rebates, etc. have been around since the beginning of the retail industry. If someone takes the time and chooses to cut out a 50 cent coupon for a loaf of bread and I don�t, should I be entitled to the same 50 cents off regardless? Of course not. Consider it their entitlement or payment for taking the time and making the effort to do so. Should you choose not to make the same effort, well than, you pay 50 cents more.

There is nothing immoral or illegal about it. It�s simply compensation for an effort made.

Somewhat "Legal" in Saudi Arabia can be "Illegal" in Burundi and v.v.

We can safely assume, the coupons, hidden promotions and similar things are legal here.

That won't make them ethical. On the other side killing Stalin or Hitler would be illegal in USSR or **** Germany, but ethical.

And regarding coupon policy in US - there IS already a welcome change. Consider Trader Joe versus Safeway and compare their popularity in the Bay Area. No comment on that. Perhaps Amtrak should be Trader Joe and let airlines be the Safeway.

 

[Trogdor]

If you have a problem with the "culture" of the US, or question the ethics of certain discount codes, that's all fine and dandy. But this is an Amtrak discussion, so let's not worry about what Dell computers or the hotel industry does.

First of all, all of the codes that you posted (which have since been removed) are pretty much useless to the individual traveler. A123 means nothing to the traveler, it's simply a code that the reservation agent uses instead of having to type in "Nowhere-Bumkin County Festival Free Companion Ticket." If you type in any of those codes into the promo-code line on Amtrak.com, you'll get an error message.

Occasionally, there will be an advertisement somewhere telling passengers to use code "A123" when calling an agent. In that case, these codes can be used to measure the effectiveness of certain types of advertising (i.e. we advertised in the Daily Journal, and got 10 people to use the A123 code, so now we know how useful it is to advertise in the Daily Journal). In other cases, the discounts are for members of certain groups/programs (i.e. NARP or Veterans Advantage). Those are also very well advertised *to those that are eligible.* Nothing hidden there. But, one must ask for them when booking.

It's similar to the previous post regarding the 50-cent coupon. If I don't buy the newspaper and, thus, don't see the coupon, then tough. I pay more. If I don't buy the newspaper and, thus, don't see the Amtrak discount advertised, then I'm out of luck.

Since you brought in "free market," I'll point out that there is no such thing as a free market. None. It simply doesn't exist (*especially* with respect to transportation, but in most other markets as well). Nevertheless, coupons and discounts follow the economic theory of price discrimination (i.e. those that value time over money won't bother with them, those that value money over time will). If Amtrak gets an extra passenger because of a discount code, great. If you want to use discount codes and won't travel otherwise, then more power to you. It's not a scandal, it's not a crime, it's not unethical. It's just economics.

 

[PRR 60]

...Perhaps Amtrak should be Trader Joe and let airlines be the Safeway.

Airlines do not have coupon discounts or hidden fares. All public fares (not privately contracted bulk discounts) must, by law, be shown on the computer reservation systems and be quoted when a reservation inquiry is made. If US Airways puts up a special weekend e-saver, that fare is offered to you even if you did not even know it existed.

Amtrak is not subject to these fair trade requirements, so the result is that they offer discounts and promotions and then only provide them if you specifically ask. If a Rail Sale fare is offered, you must go through the rail sale page. Go to the regular reservation page for the same trip and you will not get the fare. Similarly, if there is a special discount for travel to New York, you better know the discount code, because if you do not, you will not get the fare.

Unlike airlines, Amtrak is not subject to regulatory oversight of fares and can do what they want. Airlines do not have that latitude and cannot hide public discounts.

So, I ask you, which is Trader Joe and which is Safeway?

 

[AlanB]

The background of this: my parents came in from Hungary a few weeks ago and since I am having a conference with Intel in Hillsboro, OR next week we thougt to combine the useful thing with fun and I could take them with me. We even got a family bedroom for $239 from SJC to PDX - and these are not easy to get. What did happen, is that the TOTAL cost was too high and my parents decided not to go. In vain I tried to speak to an Amtrak agent and reveal me "one ticket for two" promotion code. She admitted, there is - but did not wanted to tell. As a result my parents decided NOT to go, I am going alone. And as I picked up my ticket the small broshure did reveal the code - but it was too late. These folks are over 70, my dad is after a brain surgery and I do not know, will they have EVER a possibility to travel again. "Thanks", Amtrak for nothing and damn your coupons.

Two comments, not particularly related to the idea of coupons.

One, it may have been a good thing that you didn't get that family room with your parents, as two of the beds are child sized. This room is not really designed to accomodate three adults.

Two, even if you had known a two for one code at the time you were buying the tickets, it still wouldn't have helped. The two for one codes are only valid in coach, you cannot use them in a sleeper. So even if the agent did tell you the code, it wouldn't have mattered, because the computer would not have let her use it for your tickets.

 

[PRR 60]

Here is a perfect example of a public discount (not private or organization) that Amtrak hides from the public. It provides 50% off a companion NEC fare to or from Philadelphia:

Travel Amtrak to Philadelphia50% off the best available rail fare for one companion traveling with a paid regular (full) adult, senior citizen or disabled discounted rail fare ticket on Amtrak travel to Philadelphia, PA. Request discount code V749 when you book online at Amtrak.com or call 1-800-USA-RAIL.

Valid for sale through December 12, 2005 and travel through December 15, 2005. Reservations must be made at least three (3) days in advance of travel. The discount is valid for travel in the Northeast Corridor on regional trains. Travel on Acela Express and Metroliners is prohibited. Other restrictions may apply.

This came from the Greater Philadelphia Tourism Marketing Corporation web site. If it is listed on the Amtrak site, it is buried pretty deep.

So which is unethical? Amtrak hiding this discount from the public (when the Philadelphia Tourism Corporation arranged with Amtrak to provide it to the public) or a web site telling rail fans that it exists?

 

[Guest_Gyuri_FT]

If you have a problem with the "culture" of the US, or question the ethics of certain discount codes, that's all fine and dandy. But this is an Amtrak discussion, so let's not worry about what Dell computers or the hotel industry does.
First of all, all of the codes that you posted (which have since been removed) are pretty much useless to the individual traveler. A123 means nothing to the traveler, it's simply a code that the reservation agent uses instead of having to type in "Nowhere-Bumkin County Festival Free Companion Ticket." If you type in any of those codes into the promo-code line on Amtrak.com, you'll get an error message.

Occasionally, there will be an advertisement somewhere telling passengers to use code "A123" when calling an agent. In that case, these codes can be used to measure the effectiveness of certain types of advertising (i.e. we advertised in the Daily Journal, and got 10 people to use the A123 code, so now we know how useful it is to advertise in the Daily Journal). In other cases, the discounts are for members of certain groups/programs (i.e. NARP or Veterans Advantage). Those are also very well advertised *to those that are eligible.* Nothing hidden there. But, one must ask for them when booking.

It's similar to the previous post regarding the 50-cent coupon. If I don't buy the newspaper and, thus, don't see the coupon, then tough. I pay more. If I don't buy the newspaper and, thus, don't see the Amtrak discount advertised, then I'm out of luck.

Since you brought in "free market," I'll point out that there is no such thing as a free market. None. It simply doesn't exist (*especially* with respect to transportation, but in most other markets as well). Nevertheless, coupons and discounts follow the economic theory of price discrimination (i.e. those that value time over money won't bother with them, those that value money over time will). If Amtrak gets an extra passenger because of a discount code, great. If you want to use discount codes and won't travel otherwise, then more power to you. It's not a scandal, it's not a crime, it's not unethical. It's just economics.

Indeed, let's worry about Amtrak. As long as the business ethics does allow this kind of price discrimination and people don't understand why it's evil - Enron/Halliburton/et all will have chance. Or other "friends" of Amtrak. And as long as it is the norm, there will be "pork" and "pet project". And as long as there is "pork" Amtrak won't get founding.

Here you go.

It's very sad, Amtrak's managers use exactly THE business practice - perhaps because they did not see anything else in their life - which hurts their company. The coupons, the hidden codes, et all IS corruption.

Regarding removal of the coupon codes: maybe Anthony felt it was politically correct thing to do it. If so, it's even more sad.

Regarding codes: quite a few of posted are pretty useful. I did try (but not travel) the code Hxxx on the train "abcdef" and got a free companion ticket. Please look again.

I fail to see why it's not insane that if you do not buy, say, Newsweek you won't get your BlueJet ticket for $13.78 less. If it ought to be a measure of ad efficiency - why is the customer who is paying for that research?

And finally: I don't see really the superior results of coupons et all versus the ticketing agent of Deutsche Bundesbahn who works his butt off to compile the chepest possible itinerary for the passenger. To my best knowledge, the things tend to work out a tad better for Bundesbahn (or for China Rail or RZhD if it matters) than for Amtrak. We know the reasons and the problems, but maybe it's more than just U.P. and Minetta? Maybe it's "culture" you did question?

A sample from a real life. This Summer one day the secretary of transportaton of Serbia got a report of unusual crowds at Belgrade station. It wasn't required a PHD in roket science to discover, there is a heat wave, the people of Serbia and countries north of it want to spend their vacation on the beach but the Belgrade - Bar line is working at full capacity. In order to get rid of the crowd he quickly set up a meating with his Bulgarian colleague and within few days there was a result: a daily "relief"-train which did transfer the folks to Bulgarian rather Serbian seashore (Varna, Burgas). There was no coupon, no BS, nothing - just a $50 r/t in a somewhat crowded bed-cars. We are dealing with two small and not-so-well-off countries. This is the "culture" I am used to. Out of curiosity: when will I go by train from San Jose to Las Vegas, NV? It is indeed, thinking which has to be changed. People grow up cutting 50-cent coupons for grandma and as they become congressmen, they let build a bridge and a road nowhere in Alaska as "pork" project. It's all having the same root, Sir.

 

[Guest_Gyuri_FT]

So which is unethical? Amtrak hiding this discount from the public (when the Philadelphia Tourism Corporation arranged with Amtrak to provide it to the public) or a web site telling rail fans that it exists?

No cr@p. The answer on your question is given. BTW: in my above sample this Summer JZ (Serbian rail) and BDZ (Bulgarian rail) made a joint press release about the "relief train" and the special price (40 EURO if I recall) and openly boosted, how quickly they came to the terms under pressure of the crowd.

Again: this is JZ, BDZ and etc. I am speaking and neither of them enjoys even a small portion of respect like the German Deutsche Bundesbahn. Sooo???