Amtrak Fares

[Patricia McClintock]

My daughter Kelly, a college student at the University of California, Merced, had a reservation on the Amtrak train leaving Friday November 3rd at 8 in the morning from Merced to Solona Beach, CA. She found out on Thursday, Nov. 2nd that she could leave school in time to take the 4 p.m. train which would allow her to have an extra day in San Diego. Upon calling Amtrak Reservations, she was told she had to pay $15 more for the ticket as there was less space available. There was "space available", just less - so tell me how does this justify raising the price $15? I was told, not very politely, that this has always been Amtrak's policy - less space, higher cost - I was told the cost variation on a one-way ticket for this route was anywhere from $52 to $92. How did you come up with this rule. that you can have empty seats, just charge more if there are less empty seats???? Economically, this is so utterly stupid I can't believe it. I can now understand more why Amtrak has financial problems. My daughter is a student and coming up with the $106 to begin with is a lot (oh by the way, if she is willing to pay $20 for a student discount card, she can "sometimes" get a cheaper fare, as long as she does everything 3 days in advance). Thanks to your pricing schedule, we will now see even less of our daughter than before, as with all the other expenses involved - we can never know how much you are going to charge - somewhere between $52 and $92 one way is a huge variation. I am going to sit down and compose a letter to the Editorial / Opinion Section of our Newspaper in San Diego - I think America needs to know about your "pricing" policy, as well as some of the "other" rules - i.e., when riding the train up to see my daughter the conductor made an announcement that we couldn't put anything on the seat next to us, if he saw anything he was going to charge us for the extra seat. The seat was empty all the way to LA, along with many other empty seats - Thursday afternoon the train was not that crowded. I rode in fear of being charged for setting a magazine on the seat next to me. Now that I know how Amtrak likes to "charge" for empty space, I really will never set anything on the seat next to me - but not to worry, I won't be on the train much anymore - not with all the "unforeseen" possible expenses, I feel like driving is a lot less stressful.

 

[MrFSS]

My daughter Kelly, a college student at the University of California, Merced, had a reservation on the Amtrak train leaving Friday November 3rd at 8 in the morning from Merced to Solona Beach, CA. She found out on Thursday, Nov. 2nd that she could leave school in time to take the 4 p.m. train which would allow her to have an extra day in San Diego. Upon calling Amtrak Reservations, she was told she had to pay $15 more for the ticket as there was less space available. There was "space available", just less - so tell me how does this justify raising the price $15? I was told, not very politely, that this has always been Amtrak's policy - less space, higher cost - I was told the cost variation on a one-way ticket for this route was anywhere from $52 to $92. How did you come up with this rule. that you can have empty seats, just charge more if there are less empty seats???? Economically, this is so utterly stupid I can't believe it. I can now understand more why Amtrak has financial problems. My daughter is a student and coming up with the $106 to begin with is a lot (oh by the way, if she is willing to pay $20 for a student discount card, she can "sometimes" get a cheaper fare, as long as she does everything 3 days in advance). Thanks to your pricing schedule, we will now see even less of our daughter than before, as with all the other expenses involved - we can never know how much you are going to charge - somewhere between $52 and $92 one way is a huge variation. I am going to sit down and compose a letter to the Editorial / Opinion Section of our Newspaper in San Diego - I think America needs to know about your "pricing" policy, as well as some of the "other" rules - i.e., when riding the train up to see my daughter the conductor made an announcement that we couldn't put anything on the seat next to us, if he saw anything he was going to charge us for the extra seat. The seat was empty all the way to LA, along with many other empty seats - Thursday afternoon the train was not that crowded. I rode in fear of being charged for setting a magazine on the seat next to me. Now that I know how Amtrak likes to "charge" for empty space, I really will never set anything on the seat next to me - but not to worry, I won't be on the train much anymore - not with all the "unforeseen" possible expenses, I feel like driving is a lot less stressful.

We on this forum want to help. But - we're not Amtrak. We're just a place people can learn about and discuss Amtrak.
Have you checked the way airlines sell tickets, recently. The closer to the flight date, the more expensive they become, usually. Why? The plane will normally have more and more passengers the closer to the flight date.

Amtrak sells its tickets the same way. Buy a ticket for a trip 10 months from now and you will usually get a very low price. Wait until the day before or the day of travel and there is a good chance it will be a higher price. This is common through out the travel and hotel industry.

Why does it cost more to stay in a hotel when there is a special event going on in town? Demand.

You probably need to be writing to Amtrak Customer Service with your remarks. We, here on this forum, do that when we have a bad experience with Amtrak. Someone there should listen. You can also call Amtrak and ask for Customer Service and politely explain your story.

Again, folks here on the forum may have some other suggestions for you, too. Watch for answers.

 

[haolerider]

As MrFSS has stated, this is very common policy in the transportation/hospitality business and is certainly not restricted to Amtrak. I would strongly suggest your daughter purchase the Student Advantage Card that you referred to, since it will not only provide a discount on Amtrak for your daughter, but also give her discounts on many other items/companies as well. You can check out their website for more information. I also don't know if you or anyone in your family are AAA members, but there is also a discount available with that membership.

She can also check amtrak.com and take a look at various dates, times, etc to see what might be the lowest price available and if she is willing to be flexible, there are generally lower prices available at what might be considered off peak dates and times.

Good luck.

 

[Anthony]

(oh by the way, if she is willing to pay $20 for a student discount card, she can "sometimes" get a cheaper fare, as long as she does everything 3 days in advance).

Actually, she can *always* get a 15% discount as long as she books three days or more in advance.

 

[AlanB]

First as MrFss stated, this website is not an "Official" Amtrak website. We have no affliation with Amtrak and we have no influence on Amtrak policies. We can't even pass on your complaint to Amtrak, you'd have to do that yourself.

Next, as a few others have already stated, raising fares as things sell out is common in the travel/hotel industries. The airlines all do it, one must book at least 7 days prior to departure for the best prices. Greyhound also does it. One must book at least 3 days in advance of travel on some routes, on others it's 7 days in advance of travel, in order to receive the best price. So Amtrak is definately not doing anything differently than anyone else in the travel industry. Even local commuter trains charge more for tickets purchased onboard the train, and some even offer discounts for tickets purchased several days in advance of travel.

While I realize that it can be hard to plan her trips in advance, the best advice is to try to do that whenever possible for the best fares. As long as she doesn't pick up the tickets, any reservation can be cancelled without penalty. So if she's even thinking of traveling, book it and then if plans change cancel for a full refund. Once she picks up the ticket, then she'll pay a 10% penalty if she wants a refund to the credit card. If she takes the refund in the form of a voucher good for future travel, then she'll get the full amount paid on that voucher. But personally I never pick up my ticket till the day of travel, that way I can always easily cancel and get my money back.

As for that conductor, I can only assume that he was expecting a full train. In that case he is right, why should things that belong to you get a free ride, when people who paid for a seat are standing. I've never actually seen a conductor charge for someone using an extra seat however, if there is no one standing. Even then most will still come by and politely ask you to move your stuff. If you refuse, then you can expect to be charged for the extra seat and failing to pay for it would result in your being thrown off the train at the next stop.

 

[Guest]

Everyone is in business to make money, and Amtrak tries, too. That's why Halloween candy sells for full price before the 31st of October and is marked down to 75% off on November 1 when there is no demand. Lower prices stimulate demand. That is why the young lady was charged a lower fare for the train departure with less demand.

The Amtrak reservationist gave a correct, yet over-simplified explanation. However, I am impressed that they were able to explain at all. Amtrak obviously wants the train with "less seats available" to completely sell out, and it looks like that the increased fare is not discouraging passengers as there are less seats available for this departure even with the higher fare. The train with less demand is offering a lower fare in the hopes that passengers who are price-sensitive, as this student seems to be, will purchase a ticket for this train and help to sell it out. Holidays are when everyone wants to travel and there are only a certain amount of available seats on each train departure.

The prices of cars, dresses, shoes, purses, gold, houses and stocks are based on demand. When there is high demand for an item, prices rise. When there is low demand, watch the value of that house or stock fall or see that dress from last season hit the clearance rack. Last year's model car might drive as well as this year's but try to convince your buyer to pay the same price for an '06 as they can pay for an '07.

Amtrak fares within California are very reasonable to begin with and they are generous with available discounts, such as Student Advantage which was mentioned in an earlier post.

As is most often correct, the early bird catches the worm (or the lower fare).

 

[saxman]

It does make economic sense to me. Higher demand means higher pricees in anything.

 

[The Metropolitan]

I think everyone has pretty much covered the supply and demand perspective. I'm at a loss to figure out why you find it "utterly stupid;" the pricing tiers make perfect sense from the Economics laws, as others have explained. The term "yield management" is often applied to the concept. Maybe your daughter might have learned about it in College.

I've had to bump up to an earlier train, and I was GLAD to pay $10 or $15 extra to do so (and trust me, I'm not swimming in cash either), particularly given that there was no penalty applied for making a change to my reservation, even though I'd selected it, and picked up the tickets. I understood the reasoning for the difference applied, but given the value I recieved in getting to my destination more quickly, my time was worth the extra money.

It should be pointed out that the pricing system does not always work against you either in the event of a late change of plance, as it can at times work for you. If you booked a ticket at the $67 price "bucket," only to later discover you could use an earlier train that just so happened was still in the $52 bucket due to lack of demand, you would indeed be refunded the $15 difference. You'd likely never get such a benefit making a last minute change on a plane.

Finally, I'm personally GLAD that the Conductors enforce against people cluttering up two seats. They do this often at Washington Union on NEC trains headed south. Honestly, this levels the playing field against arrogant people who tend to think "if I clutter up both seats, no one will sit next to me." Ever board a crowded vehicle where someone plays possum as they sprawl "asleep" across two seats, while you paid the same fare they did? Then if you ask them to make room, they shoot you a look?

 

[Ngo11]

I would strongly suggest your daughter purchase the Student Advantage Card that you referred to, since it will not only provide a discount on Amtrak for your daughter, but also give her discounts on many other items/companies as well. Good luck.

Student Advantage cards are fairly useless. I recommend an International Student ID Card (ISIC) which gives you the same 15% discount on Amtrak, works all over the world, gives you (sometimes much) cheaper airfares at statravel.com and some other discounts (like discounted phone calls now too, I believe. Not sure how competitive they are).

 

[Everydaymatters]

I wonder if the train attendants have been told to tighten up on people putting things in the seat next to them. The train attendant on my recent trip had a hissy fit because I placed my carryon on the seat next to me when I first got on the train and was just getting situated. There were only two people in the car!

If they were told to tighten up, they should be told to use discretion! For crying out loud, if there are only two people in the car and people had just got on the train, lighten up! BTW, the car never had more than 6 pax the entire 2 day trip!

 

[battalion51]

Well you know how some people are, the company puts a Memo out, and they take it so literally it's not even funny.

 

[sechs]

Imagine how unhappy Kelly's mom would be if she'd had a plane ticket and needed to cough up a $50 fee plus the difference in fare!

Makes Amtrak look like a pretty good deal....

 

[Guest]

Imagine how unhappy Kelly's mom would be if she'd had a plane ticket and needed to cough up a $50 fee plus the difference in fare!
Makes Amtrak look like a pretty good deal....

Well said. Great point.

 

[Guest]

My daughter Kelly, a college student at the University of California, Merced, had a reservation on the Amtrak train leaving Friday November 3rd at 8 in the morning from Merced to Solona Beach, CA. She found out on Thursday, Nov. 2nd that she could leave school in time to take the 4 p.m. train which would allow her to have an extra day in San Diego. Upon calling Amtrak Reservations, she was told she had to pay $15 more for the ticket as there was less space available. There was "space available", just less - so tell me how does this justify raising the price $15? I was told, not very politely, that this has always been Amtrak's policy - less space, higher cost - I was told the cost variation on a one-way ticket for this route was anywhere from $52 to $92. How did you come up with this rule. that you can have empty seats, just charge more if there are less empty seats???? Economically, this is so utterly stupid I can't believe it. I can now understand more why Amtrak has financial problems. My daughter is a student and coming up with the $106 to begin with is a lot (oh by the way, if she is willing to pay $20 for a student discount card, she can "sometimes" get a cheaper fare, as long as she does everything 3 days in advance). Thanks to your pricing schedule, we will now see even less of our daughter than before, as with all the other expenses involved - we can never know how much you are going to charge - somewhere between $52 and $92 one way is a huge variation. I am going to sit down and compose a letter to the Editorial / Opinion Section of our Newspaper in San Diego - I think America needs to know about your "pricing" policy, as well as some of the "other" rules - i.e., when riding the train up to see my daughter the conductor made an announcement that we couldn't put anything on the seat next to us, if he saw anything he was going to charge us for the extra seat. The seat was empty all the way to LA, along with many other empty seats - Thursday afternoon the train was not that crowded. I rode in fear of being charged for setting a magazine on the seat next to me. Now that I know how Amtrak likes to "charge" for empty space, I really will never set anything on the seat next to me - but not to worry, I won't be on the train much anymore - not with all the "unforeseen" possible expenses, I feel like driving is a lot less stressful.

Hi I have a bit of a problem with it also. I checked the fare recently for a trip to chicago and the fares were posted by amtrak to be a certian price. When I called in I got the much higher fare quoted for the same reasons. Its a bit of a bait and switch situation. You call because of the resonable price shown in the ad, only to be told the fare is a lot higher due to amount of seats sold. That would be ok if they gave you the highest possible fare in the ad, then lowered the fare it they could due to lower load factor. At least you have some idea what you were getting into. But to show a low fare and then up it is a bit deceptive in my book. Yes others may do it too, but it doesn't make it right.

Larry

 

[AlanB]

Hi I have a bit of a problem with it also. I checked the fare recently for a trip to chicago and the fares were posted by amtrak to be a certian price. When I called in I got the much higher fare quoted for the same reasons. Its a bit of a bait and switch situation. You call because of the resonable price shown in the ad, only to be told the fare is a lot higher due to amount of seats sold. That would be ok if they gave you the highest possible fare in the ad, then lowered the fare it they could due to lower load factor. At least you have some idea what you were getting into. But to show a low fare and then up it is a bit deceptive in my book. Yes others may do it too, but it doesn't make it right.
Larry

Larry,

Where did you check? I've never seen Amtrak put precise prices in any ad, if they do anything they put in a price range.

If you went to Amtrak's online system on the net, the only place that I've ever seen Amtrak give precise prices, then I can only assume that while you took the time to call in to speak with a person, that someone else booked the last seat at that lower price. My recommendation is next time if you see a price that you like, book it right away, don't call Amtrak. The online system is quite secure and easy to use. I've been booking my trips via that system for well over 8 years now I believe without a problem.

 

[battalion51]

Alan, I have seen some sample fares advertised to try to entice passengers. For example, they will advertise sample Acela fares to try to get passengers to switch from shuttles. I have also seen the Florida Dayroom fare advertised once or twice.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

The talk of yield management and the dynamics of seat pricing reminds me of the joke a travel agent wrote, called "If airlines sold paint". I just looked with Google and it is posted in many places on the Net including http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/6271/offic092.html

If you've not read it, or haven't read it in quite awhile, it deserves another read. While somewhat sarcastic, it's also uncomfortably close to true.

Short excerpt:

------------------------------------

Customer: Hi. How much is your paint?

Clerk: Well, sir, that all depends on quite a lot of things.

Customer: Can you give me a guess? Is there an average price?

Clerk: Our lowest price is $12 a gallon, and we have 60 different

prices up to $200 a gallon.

Customer: What's the difference in the paint?

Clerk: Oh, there isn't any difference; it's all the same paint.

-------------------------------------------

 

[Guest 2]

Just because a fare is not available on a certain departure does not mean it isn't available for the majority of departures.

Airlines never advertise their top fares, nor do car dealers advertise the highest price they would charge you for a vehicle.

It's only "bait and switch" when the advertised fare or product is NEVER available at the advertised price.

 

[rmgreenesq]

Airlines never advertise their top fares, nor do car dealers advertise the highest price they would charge you for a vehicle.
It's only "bait and switch" when the advertised fare or product is NEVER available at the advertised price.

Car dealers do not advertise their top price because there isn't one. If you'll pay $45,000 for a Geo Metro, then a car dealer will gladly take it and tell you that you've made a wise decision by purchasing the car.

Rick

 

[haolerider]

Airlines never advertise their top fares, nor do car dealers advertise the highest price they would charge you for a vehicle.

It's only "bait and switch" when the advertised fare or product is NEVER available at the advertised price.

Car dealers do not advertise their top price because there isn't one. If you'll pay $45,000 for a Geo Metro, then a car dealer will gladly take it and tell you that you've made a wise decision by purchasing the car.

Rick

Rick:

If you can find that guy who will pay $45k for a Geo Metro, please let me know, since I have lots of other stuff he can purchase!

 

[jcrt1]

Relaxing travel pace, see the scenery, O.K. Considering Amtrak as a long distance travel choice for the first time, I check Dallas to Los Angeles route for fares about 2 months ago and found a reasonable coach rate of $120 one-way for off peak travel. Checked back a month later and saw a fare of $127 (any future non-peak date), small increase, NO big deal. Today, checking ALL non-peak future fares and seeing nothing below $160. Looks like a 30% increase in the base coach fare in the last 2 months. WHY? Uhm, airlines reducing fares like mad, lowest advance purchase fare now $185 round trip. Uhm, sit upright no sleep for 2 days for almost 4 times the airline fare price. No thank you, I've changed my mind primarily because of the large % increase in the fare.

 

[AlanB]

Relaxing travel pace, see the scenery, O.K. Considering Amtrak as a long distance travel choice for the first time, I check Dallas to Los Angeles route for fares about 2 months ago and found a reasonable coach rate of $120 one-way for off peak travel. Checked back a month later and saw a fare of $127 (any future non-peak date), small increase, NO big deal. Today, checking ALL non-peak future fares and seeing nothing below $160. Looks like a 30% increase in the base coach fare in the last 2 months. WHY? Uhm, airlines reducing fares like mad, lowest advance purchase fare now $185 round trip. Uhm, sit upright no sleep for 2 days for almost 4 times the airline fare price. No thank you, I've changed my mind primarily because of the large % increase in the fare.

Well don't wait too long to book that airplane either, or you might find that it takes a huge jump too. :unsure:

But this is why I always tell people don't wait for discount codes and other things like that. Once you know what you want to do and when, book it. If the price goes down, you can always book that lower price and then cancel your original reservation for no penalty, assuming that you haven't picked up your tickets.

Just as an example, I pulled out the National Timetable. While Dallas to LA is not listed as a pair, Houston to LA is. Coach fares can range from a low of $127 to a high of $249. Coach fares have 4 bucket levels and as the train fills up, the price level rises from one bucket to the next, until it eventually reaches the top level assuming that the train is close to selling out.

This is yield or management pricing and again, everyone in the travel industry practices this type of pricing. Amtrak is not unique in this regard. And considering the immense pressure that Congress and especially the current White House has put on Amtrak to make money, is it any wonder that Amtrak must do this. The Federal Government owns Amtrak, not private investors. You can't buy Amtrak stock on the stock market. So it is the Fed that ultimately set the rules, even if it's only by their actions to not provide enough money to meet Amtrak's yearly budget.

If we the people don't like the way that Amtrak is handling these matters, then we must elect the right people into office in Washington DC to handle Amtrak properly.

 

[Guest]

Relaxing travel pace, see the scenery, O.K. Considering Amtrak as a long distance travel choice for the first time, I check Dallas to Los Angeles route for fares about 2 months ago and found a reasonable coach rate of $120 one-way for off peak travel. Checked back a month later and saw a fare of $127 (any future non-peak date), small increase, NO big deal. Today, checking ALL non-peak future fares and seeing nothing below $160. Looks like a 30% increase in the base coach fare in the last 2 months. WHY? Uhm, airlines reducing fares like mad, lowest advance purchase fare now $185 round trip. Uhm, sit upright no sleep for 2 days for almost 4 times the airline fare price. No thank you, I've changed my mind primarily because of the large % increase in the fare.

I don't quite follow the mathmatics here. I am a college grad, but certainly not a math major; however, I can't get the calculations to add up.

Suppose they select the $160 one-way fare. Double that for round trip, and you come up with $320. The airfare is $185. $320 is definitely NOT 4 times $185; 4 times $185 would be a whopping $740!! In fact, $320 is less than twice the $185.

Maybe I'm missing something here in his comments? I'm not trying to be an agitator, but, if you're going to be throwing calculations around, at least make them a little more accurate.

 

[Dinker]

Maybe Amtrak needs to do a better job at explaining its pricing system on its website. It seems that many people find it aggravating, baffling or just plain stupid. In actuality, it's of course a lot simpler than the airlines but people seem to be more forgiving of them for whatever reason.

 

[Dinker]

I don't quite follow the mathmatics here. I am a college grad, but certainly not a math major; however, I can't get the calculations to add up.Suppose they select the $160 one-way fare. Double that for round trip, and you come up with $320. The airfare is $185. $320 is definitely NOT 4 times $185; 4 times $185 would be a whopping $740!! In fact, $320 is less than twice the $185.

Maybe I'm missing something here in his comments? I'm not trying to be an agitator, but, if you're going to be throwing calculations around, at least make them a little more accurate.

I also noticed this. I chalked it up to hyperbole - but maybe someone will enlighten us.