Amtrak Derailment Philadelphia (5/12/2015)

[DryCreek]

I'm thinking something more metallic, primarily lead. Maybe around 9mm in diameter or so?

It's kinda funny that when you speculate about the possible diameter of the "flying objects that struck the windshield" the post stays. When I speculate on the diameter (based on recent history) my posts "dissolve" after only a few hours. If it is some violation of forum policy, the moderator deleting or editing the post will send you a PM informing you of the breach of protocol in every other forum I am an active member of. Since that hasn't happened here, I guess that I should blame the NSA.

But, back to the picture of the Sprinter windshield - that is closer and at a better angle than any I've seen before. Just above and to the right of the large impact area near the wiper blade, does that look like another possible impact point? One that didn't penetrate the glass? There actually appears to be a hole in the upper-center of the larger impact area. As far as the size of the hole, I can only speculate that it appears to have been made by a "projectile" slightly smaller than 1/4".

 

[willem]

While looking for the picture of the David L. Gunn, I realized that one of my few ACS-64 pictures is of the 601:

The white circle in the right window (as an exterior observer looks at the front of the locomotive) that I thought had been identified as a forward-looking camera seems to be missing. Perhaps it was installed later? Maybe I misunderstood earlier explanations of the white circle?

 

[pennyk]

I'm thinking something more metallic, primarily lead. Maybe around 9mm in diameter or so?

It's kinda funny that when you speculate about the possible diameter of the "flying objects that struck the windshield" the post stays. When I speculate on the diameter (based on recent history) my posts "dissolve" after only a few hours. If it is some violation of forum policy, the moderator deleting or editing the post will send you a PM informing you of the breach of protocol in every other forum I am an active member of. Since that hasn't happened here, I guess that I should blame the NSA.

Ideally, the moderators will PM a member when it is not obvious why a post has been deleted or edited. In the past few days, especially in this thread, there have been an abundance of off topic, purely speculative, and otherwise inappropriate posts. The moderators are doing their best to keep this thread on topic, and we appreciate the efforts of members and guests to do so when posting. We have not been able to PM each member every time an inappropriate post has been hidden/deleted. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

 

[Phil Law]

Penny: if you're going to moderate a forum that allows guests to post at all, and pull down any lucid and well written post you find disagreeable even if it's plenty reasonable, then maybe it's time to lockout this thread in its entirety.

The NTSB and other agencies are doing their jobs behind the scenes, there is no news to post on this topic, and a lot of regular crybabies are getting upset at the idea that engineer of 188 may have actually made a HUGE mistake. Perhaps just as the NTSB is behind the scenes at this point, perhaps this thread should be too. Lock it out.

But pulling down well constructed posts willy-nilly, even if they are from educated guests, is disgraceful to the concept of a discussion site. Shame on you.

 

[Shack]

Many of us here have had enough, PLEASE stop turning this Tragedy into a mockery with wild guesses. Let the experts finish the investigation.

I found this board (and joined) because it has one of the most reasonable conversations about the wreck of #188. Any discussion is going to include some speculation, but it's human nature to want to discuss something that's cause is apparently so easy (speed) and hard (why) to understand.
I also suggest that for many of us who ride the NEC regularly, the NTSB stating they are looking into projectiles (which remember, just days ago even the idea of projectiles was "Internet speculation), increase the wariness and hunger for information.

I am among the thousands who will ride the NEC tomorrow. If this was a deliberate attack (not an accident or random vandalism), then there is an immediacy to the relevance of this conversation and the sharing of information.

The wreck and the attacks may be related or they may not.

In either case, we have a serious issue of "projectiles" hitting trains on the NEC and that is an active and valid concern, regardless of any connection to #188. Agreed?

 

[CHamilton]

Rock Hurling Is Old Nemesis of Train Crews

Indeed, my family was remembering the time that my grandfather, a PRR engineer, was shot while at the controls of his GG-1. We don't recall the exact date or location, but he was hospitalized for a long time, and the doctors eventually decided not to remove the bullet. He carried that reminder until he died many years later.

 

[Guest]

NTSB says there was no record of any communications of a projectile hitting the train to dispatch. Yet others said they thought he may have said something over the radio which either was not sent or did not receive dispatch.

I wonder what turn the investigation will take from here.

 

[Guest]

I think the cause of this case already is pretty obvious from the data received and incident can be avoided in the future of mass casualties like this with the right technologies.

But short term, rail lines need better police protection and should be repairing and replacing fencing with security cameras in dangerous right of way areas such as Philadelphia.

While Baltimore had their issues, it seems Philadelphia had issues too and led to casualties on Amtrak.

Amtrak has generally been statistically safe, even safer than driving.

 

[Ryan]

It's kinda funny that when you speculate about the possible diameter of the "flying objects that struck the windshield" the post stays.

I wasn't necessarily speculating on the size of the projectile, as to making reference to *what* it was.

The white circle in the right window (as an exterior observer looks at the front of the locomotive) that I thought had been identified as a forward-looking camera seems to be missing. Perhaps it was installed later? Maybe I misunderstood earlier explanations of the white circle?

I'm not sure what circle you're talking about, but you can see the camera installed inside the fireman's side window next to the center pillar:



Edit: In this post accident picture, you can see the camera at the bottom of the window:

 

[PRR 60]

Penny: if you're going to moderate a forum that allows guests to post at all, and pull down any lucid and well written post you find disagreeable even if it's plenty reasonable, then maybe it's time to lockout this thread in its entirety.

The NTSB and other agencies are doing their jobs behind the scenes, there is no news to post on this topic, and a lot of regular crybabies are getting upset at the idea that engineer of 188 may have actually made a HUGE mistake. Perhaps just as the NTSB is behind the scenes at this point, perhaps this thread should be too. Lock it out.

But pulling down well constructed posts willy-nilly, even if they are from educated guests, is disgraceful to the concept of a discussion site. Shame on you.

From a guest, no less.

Moderating this site is no fun. Handling this particular topic, with posts coming by the dozen around the clock with opinions from valid to ridiculous, is even more difficult. Every one of the staff members here is doing the best they can (and, it's a hobby, not a profession).

You want a say as to how things are run here - join. As a "guest," not speaking for the staff, but for myself, I couldn't care less how you feel about this site's moderation. Don't like it here? Don't visit. Take your "shame on you,' and shove it.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Penny: if you're going to moderate a forum that allows guests to post at all, and pull down any lucid and well written post you find disagreeable even if it's plenty reasonable, then maybe it's time to lockout this thread in its entirety.

The NTSB and other agencies are doing their jobs behind the scenes, there is no news to post on this topic, and a lot of regular crybabies are getting upset at the idea that engineer of 188 may have actually made a HUGE mistake. Perhaps just as the NTSB is behind the scenes at this point, perhaps this thread should be too. Lock it out.

But pulling down well constructed posts willy-nilly, even if they are from educated guests, is disgraceful to the concept of a discussion site. Shame on you.

From a guest, no less.

Moderating this site is no fun. Handling this particular topic, with posts coming by the dozen around the clock with opinions from valid to ridiculous, is even more difficult. Every one of the staff members here is doing the best they can (and, it's a hobby, not a profession).

You want a say as to how things are run here - join. As a "guest," not speaking for the staff, but for myself, I couldn't care less how you feel about this site's moderation. Don't like it here? Don't visit. Take your "shame on you,' and shove it.

As a Public Relations person, I find you have taken a disasterous attitude toward this Board. What if a Business Owner expressed that kind of attitude towards his or her Customers? It makes for a good reason to go elsewhere.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

The 188 mystery deepends as an NTSB Member told one of the Sunday Morning TV Talkers the Engineer of the other Regional recalls no radio communication about being hit and Dispatch tapes have no such conversation on file. He also mentioned the impact on the 188 windshield looks to be Grapefruit size, possibly ruling out a bullet. We shall hopefully soon find out as NTSB puts the puzzle together......

 

[RampWidget]

Penny: if you're going to moderate a forum that allows guests to post at all, and pull down any lucid and well written post you find disagreeable even if it's plenty reasonable, then maybe it's time to lockout this thread in its entirety.

The NTSB and other agencies are doing their jobs behind the scenes, there is no news to post on this topic, and a lot of regular crybabies are getting upset at the idea that engineer of 188 may have actually made a HUGE mistake. Perhaps just as the NTSB is behind the scenes at this point, perhaps this thread should be too. Lock it out.

But pulling down well constructed posts willy-nilly, even if they are from educated guests, is disgraceful to the concept of a discussion site. Shame on you.

You are out of line, sir, and your lack of respect to the people who volunteer their personal time to moderate our forum is appalling.

 

[PRR 60]

Penny: if you're going to moderate a forum that allows guests to post at all, and pull down any lucid and well written post you find disagreeable even if it's plenty reasonable, then maybe it's time to lockout this thread in its entirety.

The NTSB and other agencies are doing their jobs behind the scenes, there is no news to post on this topic, and a lot of regular crybabies are getting upset at the idea that engineer of 188 may have actually made a HUGE mistake. Perhaps just as the NTSB is behind the scenes at this point, perhaps this thread should be too. Lock it out.

But pulling down well constructed posts willy-nilly, even if they are from educated guests, is disgraceful to the concept of a discussion site. Shame on you.

From a guest, no less.

Moderating this site is no fun. Handling this particular topic, with posts coming by the dozen around the clock with opinions from valid to ridiculous, is even more difficult. Every one of the staff members here is doing the best they can (and, it's a hobby, not a profession).

You want a say as to how things are run here - join. As a "guest," not speaking for the staff, but for myself, I couldn't care less how you feel about this site's moderation. Don't like it here? Don't visit. Take your "shame on you,' and shove it.

As a Public Relations person, I find you have taken a disasterous attitude toward this Board. What if a Business Owner expressed that kind of attitude towards his or her Customers? It makes for a good reason to go elsewhere.

We absolutely listen to members, as I hope you know. What got me was the "shame on you" being thrown at a person who tries her very best to do what is right for the discussion here - and it was thrown out there by a guest. Very few discussion boards even permit guest postings. We do. We will even listen to guest suggestions. But, "shame on you?" Sorry, that was simply out of line and called for a response.

As for going elsewhere, well there are lots of other rail discussion boards. I defy anyone to find one that is as liberal with the content permitted as this one. Of course, to post at those sites, you would have to join. And, if you then publicly said "shame on you" to a staffer there, you would be unjoined very rapidly.

 

[Jerry_in_San_Diego]

There seem to be experts here, so I have a question for you. There is a great deal of talk in the media about how Positive Train Control might have prevented this accident. But I have heard no one mention the possibility that it may have been used by a hacker to accelerate the train and cause the accident. I have read that the train, if not that section of track, was equipped with PTC. I have also read that PTC's "Locomotive speed control unit", when active, can apply the brakes. My question is, can PTC take control of the speed of the train and actually accelerate it?

 

[Ryan]

Moderating this site is no fun. Handling this particular topic, with posts coming by the dozen around the clock with opinions from valid to ridiculous, is even more difficult. Every one of the staff members here is doing the best they can (and, it's a hobby, not a profession).

And your best is pretty damn good, even in difficult circumstances like these.

It makes for a good reason to go elsewhere.

Let us know how that works out for you. I doubt you'll find a board as accommodating as this one anywhere else.

But I have heard no one mention the possibility that it may have been used by a hacker to accelerate the train and cause the accident.

That's not really a plausible scenario.

 

[reppin_the_847]

While looking for the picture of the David L. Gunn, I realized that one of my few ACS-64 pictures is of the 601:

What a beautiful locomotive (sleek, shiny, really brand new in the scheme of things). This whole incident is just so difficult to swallow (much like high profile airline crashes) with the loss of life involving folks doing something we take for granted all the time. I think this incident really hits home for a lot of us with our affinity for riding trains. Again, R.I.P. to all the victims and condolences to all the families of the victims. I really hope that we can find out why this occurred and that the proper safety mechanisms can be put in place to prevent future incidents such as this.

 

[CHamilton]

This has been a very tough week for everyone who cares about trains, we the passengers, and the organizations that keep them running. The amount of verbal garbage that has been spouted by people with no knowledge has been astounding. (Check out what's being said about the engineer's personal life if you dare, but I warn you, you'll need a strong stomach.)

I've been glued to my computer almost nonstop since Tuesday night, trying to keep up with the groups I admin on Facebook. The moderators here have been doing the same. The AU moderators deserve BIG kudos for what they have been doing, volunteering their time and energy because they care about trains, and the people who ride and run them.

THANK YOU!

Now, let's make sure that the American passenger rail system becomes the best and safest that it can be. Take time out from writing here, and tell your elected officials that you support trains! NARP has made it easy to contact Congress, but also tell your state and local leaders.

If this tragedy leads to an improved and safer system, then the passengers who died will not have done so in vain.

 

[rusty spike]

Agreed!!!!

 

[Jerry_in_San_Diego]

But I have heard no one mention the possibility that it may have been used by a hacker to accelerate the train and cause the accident.

Engineer answered: "That's not really a plausible scenario."

Could you be more specific? WHY is that not a plausible scenario? At the most basic level, does the positive train control system have the capability to accelerate a train, or can it only slow it down? If the latter, then clearly the hacking scenario is not plausible. Is that the case, or can a train be commanded by a computer to speed up? Does anybody here know?

 

[Bob Dylan]

As a member who has had posts modified and taken down by the moderators of this forum ( rightfully, since I am an strongly opinionated political junkie), I applaud the hard working moderators, committee members and administrators that keep the best rail forum on the net going from for we train lovers!

I have met and gotten to know all of them, and can testify that they are fair, friendly and hard working folks who I sometimes disagree with but would never insult, threaten to leave or call names!

Civility in this country has become rare thanks in part to being able to hide on the internet! If you won't own your opinions and ideas you're dishonest and a coward hiding behind a mask!

I challenge all of our guests to join as members, participate fully in the forum and if you find its not for you, as Michael Jackson sang, ".. just ease on down the road.."

 

[BrianPR3]

Just In; Full Amtrak Service Restored on Monday

 

[Ryan]

Yay!

 

[Bob Dylan]

Great news! Kuddos to the hard working gangs that pulled this off so quickly!

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Wah! Why not now? J/K

I'm on 50 and have to switch to a late NER in WAS to get to WIL.