Amtrak Cascades

[Trainut]

I have looked on the Amtrak Cascades web site and it seems to me they are telling me they are running Superliners, and do not offer BC.

I have been trying to call Amtrak for the last 4 hours and Julie says there is at least a 33 minute wait to talk to an agent, no thanks on the wait.

Anyone have an up date?

Thanks, Trainut

 

[profwebs]

I have looked on the Amtrak Cascades web site and it seems to me they are telling me they are running Superliners, and do not offer BC. I have been trying to call Amtrak for the last 4 hours and Julie says there is at least a 33 minute wait to talk to an agent, no thanks on the wait.

Anyone have an up date?

Thanks, Trainut

Guess it is, although I have no idea why.. I saw this on Youtube the other day.. Youtube Cascades with Superliners

 

[Shawn]

All Cascades trains are using Talgo sets, EXCEPT, the Vancouver, BC run. Since they are refurbishing one Talgo set at a time, they have substituted Superliners for that run.

Found this!

http://www.amtrakcascades.com/TrackWork.aspx

 

[sky12065]

I have looked on the Amtrak Cascades web site and it seems to me they are telling me they are running Superliners, and do not offer BC. I have been trying to call Amtrak for the last 4 hours and Julie says there is at least a 33 minute wait to talk to an agent, no thanks on the wait.

Anyone have an up date?

Thanks, Trainut

I dont have any updates but I wouldn't give up on Julie. I don't ever remember having to wait for more that about 10 minutes, usually not much more than 5. Could be you hit an unusually busy day! Give them at least 5 or 10 even if they say 33! We'll call it the "5 & Dime" rule! :lol:

 

[AlanB]

All Cascades trains are using Talgo sets, EXCEPT, the Vancouver, BC run. Since they are refurbishing one Talgo set at a time, they have substituted Superliners for that run.
Found this!

http://www.amtrakcascades.com/TrackWork.aspx

Correct!

And the Superliner set runs with a CCC as the food car. No word on whether they are using it only as a cafe car, or if it is doing double duty and working also as a diner. Since the train it's replacing is the only Talgo service that normally operates the dining car, I'm hopeful that Amtrak saw fit to use the CCC in its intended roll.

 

[MattW]

What are they doing to the Talgos? Just upgrading, or doing some extended maintenance or what?

Perhaps you just caught them while the fleet was jumping hence the 33 minute wait! (Bonus points if you can tell me where that's from )

 

[Trogdor]

And the Superliner set runs with a CCC as the food car. No word on whether they are using it only as a cafe car, or if it is doing double duty and working also as a diner. Since the train it's replacing is the only Talgo service that normally operates the dining car, I'm hopeful that Amtrak saw fit to use the CCC in its intended roll.

Don't know if things have changed in the past year, but when I rode the Superliner-equipped trainset in September 2007, the diner-lounge was just being used as a cafe, not a diner. It was also very busy which, combined with the fact that there was only one person staffing the car (the Talgo usually had 2-3 food service attendants), would have made dining-style service very difficult.

Again, this was September 2007. Things could have changed in the intervening year and a quarter.

 

[AlanB]

What are they doing to the Talgos? Just upgrading, or doing some extended maintenance or what?

The trainsets are receiving a major overhaul and therefore need to be taken out of service one at a time for several months.

 

[Trainut]

Just got through to Julie, Agent said they were going to start the fix in the "next few days" to check back in a month or two , they might know more then.

Just like the old saying "ask 10 Amtrak agents and get different 11 answers."

We will be traveling in May, the only reason to go to Vancouver was to ride the Talgo train set. I guess I'll wait till mid April and change the last part of our trip if they are still running Superliners.

Thank you for the replies.

Trainut

 

[jis]

And the Superliner set runs with a CCC as the food car. No word on whether they are using it only as a cafe car, or if it is doing double duty and working also as a diner. Since the train it's replacing is the only Talgo service that normally operates the dining car, I'm hopeful that Amtrak saw fit to use the CCC in its intended roll.

Alan,

I was on that train last week and although I did not specifically check to confirm this fact, it appeared that the CCC is being used only as a cafe car. But the cafe menu has full packaged meals that you can purchase and choose to eat either in the CCC car or at your seat. I am actually left wondering why Amtrak on the NEC could not upgrade to the Cascades CCC menu in their cafe cars. The menu was actually quite nice and I had a Salmon entree for an early lunch on my way upto Vancouver.

This was on Thanksgiving day and the train was completely sold out. They us a Superliner Coach for intermediate passengers and a Superliner Coach-Baggage for through Vancouver passengers, with the CCC between those two cars.

 

[battalion51]

One of the challenges with Trainsets is the fact that one car can't be done at a time, the whole thing has to be done at a time. Even when the Acelas go in for work they are out for a while when the work is being done. But the Acela fleet is much more flexible since there's 20 trainsets compared to the 4 (?) Talgo sets.

 

[AlanB]

But the Acela fleet is much more flexible since there's 20 trainsets compared to the 4 (?) Talgo sets.

Five trainsets.

And it's not like Acela is that much more flexible either, although it is a bit easier. But IIRC, Acela needs 16 trainsets each weekday to cover the schedule. That allows for 3 trainsets to be in the shops for PM work and inspections and only one spare set. That one spare is now in the Philly Coach yards undergoing refurbishment.

 

[battalion51]

Definitely more flexible than the Talgo sets though. IIRC all sets are used everyday, with PM being done on weekends and long layovers for a set. I'm guessing they use Superliners as their standby set (when this whole thing isn't going on)?

 

[AlanB]

Definitely more flexible than the Talgo sets though. IIRC all sets are used everyday, with PM being done on weekends and long layovers for a set. I'm guessing they use Superliners as their standby set (when this whole thing isn't going on)?

I don't think that they keep Superliners around normally as a backup for the Talgos.

I believe that they need 4 trainsets to meet the daily schedule, with the 5th set functioning as the backup/PM set.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Definitely more flexible than the Talgo sets though. IIRC all sets are used everyday, with PM being done on weekends and long layovers for a set. I'm guessing they use Superliners as their standby set (when this whole thing isn't going on)?

I don't think that they keep Superliners around normally as a backup for the Talgos.

I believe that they need 4 trainsets to meet the daily schedule, with the 5th set functioning as the backup/PM set.

Then why do they need the Superliners? If 1 is in the shop, you have the four needed for the daily runs and the Superliner can be the backup/PM set.

 

[AlanB]

Definitely more flexible than the Talgo sets though. IIRC all sets are used everyday, with PM being done on weekends and long layovers for a set. I'm guessing they use Superliners as their standby set (when this whole thing isn't going on)?

I don't think that they keep Superliners around normally as a backup for the Talgos.

I believe that they need 4 trainsets to meet the daily schedule, with the 5th set functioning as the backup/PM set.

Then why do they need the Superliners? If 1 is in the shop, you have the four needed for the daily runs and the Superliner can be the backup/PM set.

Because you don't want the Superliner set pinch hitting as the backup train. If you do that, first you'll automatically be late as the Talgos are allowed a higher speed than the Superliners. Second, now you have a train with no business class cars substituting for a train where people are holding business class tickets. That's a lot of refunds to be made and the potential for a lot of angry customers.

Better to blackout Business on the one run that always requires a dedicated set and doesn't seriously benefit from the higher Talgo speeds, than risk the issues above.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Definitely more flexible than the Talgo sets though. IIRC all sets are used everyday, with PM being done on weekends and long layovers for a set. I'm guessing they use Superliners as their standby set (when this whole thing isn't going on)?

I don't think that they keep Superliners around normally as a backup for the Talgos.

I believe that they need 4 trainsets to meet the daily schedule, with the 5th set functioning as the backup/PM set.

Then why do they need the Superliners? If 1 is in the shop, you have the four needed for the daily runs and the Superliner can be the backup/PM set.

Because you don't want the Superliner set pinch hitting as the backup train. If you do that, first you'll automatically be late as the Talgos are allowed a higher speed than the Superliners. Second, now you have a train with no business class cars substituting for a train where people are holding business class tickets. That's a lot of refunds to be made and the potential for a lot of angry customers.

Better to blackout Business on the one run that always requires a dedicated set and doesn't seriously benefit from the higher Talgo speeds, than risk the issues above.

Thank you. That was very informative--

thought I still despise the talgos in every way...

 

[Trogdor]

Definitely more flexible than the Talgo sets though. IIRC all sets are used everyday, with PM being done on weekends and long layovers for a set. I'm guessing they use Superliners as their standby set (when this whole thing isn't going on)?

I don't think that they keep Superliners around normally as a backup for the Talgos.

I believe that they need 4 trainsets to meet the daily schedule, with the 5th set functioning as the backup/PM set.

Then why do they need the Superliners? If 1 is in the shop, you have the four needed for the daily runs and the Superliner can be the backup/PM set.

Currently, one set at a time is undergoing refurbishment. The other four trainsets are already spoken for on the rest of the schedule. If the Vancouver train was a Talgo, they'd need five sets.

If I recall correctly, Talgo has a special maintenance facility in Seattle. The trains are scheduled in such a way that they rotate through and spend the night in Seattle once every four days. I think this maintenance cycle is actually the reason why trains 504 and 506 are separate trains connecting in Portland, rather than one through train.

I don't claim any special insight into equipment rotations, but I'd guess that the cycle goes:

Day 1 - 501, 506, 509

Day 2 - 500, 507

Day 3 - 504, 516

Day 4 - 513, 508

510 and 517, whether Superliner or Talgo, are captive to that round-trip and overnight in Seattle every night (that's the primary reason why, if there is an equipment sub, it goes on that train rather than one of the several Seattle-Portland trips).

Somewhere, I've got an Amtrak equipment rotation schedule from 2-3 years ago. I'll try to look for it and see if it shows that rotation.

Edit: Taking a closer look at the schedule, I realize that that's the only rotation that would possibly work. Anything else, and two trainsets would spend every night in Eugene, where there are no maintenance facilities.

 

[Cascadia]

We will be traveling in May, the only reason to go to Vancouver was to ride the Talgo train set. I guess I'll wait till mid April and change the last part of our trip if they are still running Superliners.Thank you for the replies.

Trainut

Hi Trainut, you will be riding "my" train if you come out and go to Vancouver. I rode it up last Saturday and came back down to Bellingham on Monday night.

By May, they will surely have the second run figured out, which will extend the train that comes up from Seattle and stays over night in Bellingham now, so that it stays over night in Vancouver instead, and comes back down in the morning. That train is a Talgo train.

It's possible that by May we will not have our Superliners anymore, but I doubt it. I think we will have them for quite a while which is fine with me, I like them.

I appreciate ALC rail writer's comment above "But I still despise the Talgos in every way" LOL. I don't like them much either and have known some of the guys who worked on them with the structural defect besides the refurbishment and they have a low opinion of them too.

They also hit the rails wrong when you get north of the border and it throws the car from side to side making a very uncomfortable ride. There's a brilliantly clear post somewhere explaining exactly why this is, I have it saved somewhere if someone wants to know.

Anyway I have been lucky to be spoiled on the Superliners. Of course you want to see the Talgos because they are the only ones in the US, right? They have nice big handicapped restrooms. They have a TV screen that shows your progress along the route and plays movies.

They have nice big windows too.

You could always ride the train up to Bellingham and stay over, it is a very nice destination, beautiful location, MAY is the perfect perfect time to be visiting in the PNW, flowers everywhere like you would not believe, and the weather is cool and misty so they flowers stay on for weeks, literally. You might see the tulip fields in the Skagit valley south of Bellingham.

If you don't have a lot of time to spend in Vancouver it can be kind of overwhelming for one day I think, if you don't know your way around. I could tell you fun things to do for a day trip though, that are cheap and get you good views of the city.

Keep Bellingham in mind, it's smaller and not much traffic and super easy to get around by bus, we have good bus service and cabs too. There are wonderful parks right by the water but you need inside information to find the trail heads and stuff. I can help you out.

Talgos go to Bellingham and stay overnight but by May they will continue to Vancouver too, and come back in the morning.

Superliners go to Bellingham and get you there in the morning, or continue to Vancouver to get you there at noon. Assuming it is still Superliners by May.

Coming out here in May you ought to make your focus be getting out and looking at flowers even if it's just boulevard trees and people's yards, because it is really spectacular everywhere you look. There are really cool public gardens that are worth visiting but I'm sure you know that.

 

[jis]

What I find interesting is that the Pacific Central Station in Vancouver already has more Amtrak (7 arrivals and 7 departures per week) service than VIA service (3 arrivals and 3 departures per week). With the introduction of the second Cascade frequency Amtrak service will double, and Amtrak will become quite the predominant operator at the Pacific Central Station.

I am wondering if the immigration sterilized fenced in area for the Cascades is long enough for Talgos. I guess it must be. I noticed that they actually shut and lock the gate across the track once the train is in place at the platform, and of course they unlock and open the gate once the train is loaded and locked up and ready to go.

 

[Kevin L.]

Considering that Canada has never even bothered to look at my passport, it'll be weird to experience them locking us in a pen and doing other border-crossing functions. Hopefully Canada still maintains their friendliness in crossing during this excursion. How is the bus crossing into Canada?

So this means that in taking the Cascades from Vancouver to Seattle I will be on a normal superliner train?

 

[wayman]

Considering that Canada has never even bothered to look at my passport, it'll be weird to experience them locking us in a pen and doing other border-crossing functions. Hopefully Canada still maintains their friendliness in crossing during this excursion. How is the bus crossing into Canada?
So this means that in taking the Cascades from Vancouver to Seattle I will be on a normal superliner train?

If it's like my recent US/Canadian border crossings by car in Washington/British Columbia, it'll go like this:

going to Canada: "hi, welcome to Canada!"

returning to US: "why were you in Canada? you're on a vacation? that's awfully suspicious! why were you there on vacation? a ... friend? you have a "friend" in Canada? please open your trunk, we'll have to inspect it, no no, don't get out of your car, you can't see our inspection process, and keep both hands on the wheel. now, tell us how you met your "friend". you met her on a train from Chicago to Spokane???? why were you taking a train? that's awfully suspicious! ... oh, he says your trunk is clean, you can go now. sorry, sir. welcome home."

Canada is not the country whose friendliness we need to question.

 

[access bob]

Considering that Canada has never even bothered to look at my passport, it'll be weird to experience them locking us in a pen and doing other border-crossing functions. Hopefully Canada still maintains their friendliness in crossing during this excursion. How is the bus crossing into Canada?
So this means that in taking the Cascades from Vancouver to Seattle I will be on a normal superliner train?

rode it both ways about a month ago,

was "funny" to see train locked in a cage but the Canadians were fast and efficient ang got us all thru in about half an hour. they did look at my passport, barely.

coming home was two step, they checked the bags in Vancouver before boarding but just over the border into the USA at what looked like a glorified Bus stop homeland security got on and checked everyones passport and other papers. fast efficient and no nonsense. Asked one if they also checked the engineer and they said he was checked and we better hope he has no problems because we will be here for a while then.

they were the only ones I remember being armed

Bob

 

[AlanB]

Canada is not the country whose friendliness we need to question.

I guess, if you consider friendly to be having your car searched, left sitting on a hard bench for two hours, taken into a back room whereupon being thoroughly frisked (and I do mean thoroughly), threatened with the loss of your car and everything in it, two years in jail, all while the officer rifles through your wallet throwing pictures and things all over the desk, and then eventually being banned from visiting Canada for a period of one year.

And all because I wanted to go visit some friends and the Shania Twain Centre in Timmins Ontario.

 

[wayman]

Canada is not the country whose friendliness we need to question.

I guess, if you consider friendly to be having your car searched, left sitting on a hard bench for two hours, taken into a back room whereupon being thoroughly frisked (and I do mean thoroughly), threatened with the loss of your car and everything in it, two years in jail, all while the officer rifles through your wallet throwing pictures and things all over the desk, and then eventually being banned from visiting Canada for a period of one year.

And all because I wanted to go visit some friends and the Shania Twain Centre in Timmins Ontario.

That's right, I forgot you had that experience. I should hope your experience is the exception and not the rule though, for entering Canada, while I suspect all the US entry points nowadays are ... more time-consuming and less hassle-free, albeit not as thoroughly for the average traveler as what you went through...

I had a friend who, while traveling on a Canadian passport into Canada a few years ago, had the following exchange with the Canadian border control:

Border control: "hi, passport please?" [sees Canadian passport] "welcome home! where's home for you?"

My friend: "Winnipeg."

Border control: "... I'm sorry."

It's just not a beloved city in Canada