AGR Sleeper Reservations Cancellation Policy (Rescinded)

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Yeah, I'm not exactly tickled with that response, knowing the wide range of agents. If there were set metrics that we're informed of, I'd go for it. But for what amounts to "trust us"? Nope, not buying.

Moreover, there's no clear explanation of why they're being so blasted punitive about this, anyway, particularly with unintended consequences such as everyone's collective inclination to no-show rather than cancel.
 
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I agree that "case-by-case" translates to "based on the agent's mood that day"! :blink:

  • My mother died - No problem
  • My daughter is sick and in the hospital - No can do
  • I was stuck in a traffic jam on the way to the train - Tough
  • I was just fired from my job - Take a 60,000 AGR point loss
  • I was laid off for the past 5 months and can't find a new job - I'll give you your 35K back
  • I just got hired and start the job next week - Better start earning those 40K back
  • I booed this trip 8 months ago, but my boss just cancelled my vacation - Too bad about those 120K

if the rules were in black and white, or if there were a fee to redeposit them or a cancellation fee, I could accept it. But not on the whim of the agent's mood!
 
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We do value our loyal members and customers and it was not our intent to give you the impression that we don't. We know that in order to have enough points to redeem for a trip in a sleeper, you have spent a lot on Amtrak travel or on the AGR credit card. Your business is important to us and we want you to continue to redeem your points for sleepers. This policy is not being introduced to make redemption travel more difficult for you. If you find that your plans change and the deadline has passed, please be assured that all extenuating circumstances will be considered on a case-by-case basis and we will do our best to accommodate your request to modify your itinerary or refund your points without penalty.
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Pardon my insolence in stating that this is an example of lame corporate speak coming out of a bureaucracy that is unwilling to actually create a reasonable watertight policy, and instead leaves too much to the discretion of agents. Now we know why Amtrak is forever inconsistent in everything. Clearly its mangement has no clue about being consistent and what it takes in terms of structuring policies to make it so. That stuff is really not even worth the paper it is written on IMHO, specially when an obvious watertight policy that does not require across the board exception handling is available ready to hand.

If Amtrak had an impeccable reputation of good customer relations it would be one thing. But given Amtrak's track record in that department, which is less than stellar, one is now supposed to put ones fate in their hands and have faith that at they will be reasonable? Really? I suppose they really also have no idea how bad and untrustworthy they are. Oh well....
 
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Anderson said:
particularly with unintended consequences such as everyone's collective inclination to no-show rather than cancel.
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This is not a threat at all to them. Their goal isn't to ensure that they get double the revenue for the room, although I'm sure that they wouldn't mind; their goal is to ensure that they get revenue for that room.

I'm not saying that people should or should not cancel if they know that they can't take the trip. That's up to each person to decide for themselves. But again, it is no threat to AGR. They don't care about the room going empty; they only care that they got revenue.

In fact, were ARROW sophisticated enough to track the resale of the room, I'd bet that they'd be willing to refund the points if indeed they were able to resell the room. Alas, ARROW can't deal with that.
 
I've always regarded AGR as the most entertaining of frequent traveler programs. AGR Insider's latest effort just proved it. The last sentence is pure poetry:

please be assured that all extenuating circumstances will be considered on a case-by-case basis and we will do our best to accommodate your request
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Given AGR's well-established inability to consistently apply whatever rules they already have (since we're assured they actually have rules), I simply have no idea what Ms. Radke means.

This new cancellation policy adds a whole new level of quantum indeterminancy to the program. Not only can you not be sure of what long-distance trip you can book, and at what cost, but now if you have a last minute cancellation, you don't know if you'll get any of your points back.

AlanB said:
They don't care about the room going empty; they only care that they got revenue.
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I've said repeatedly that AGR is like Honey Badger. He don't care. I'm glad others agree, though Ms. Radke might claim otherwise.

I'm fortunate, though, in that I've never had to cancel an AGR trip within two weeks of travel. It allows me to be amused, rather than disgusted. I can understand other reactions, though, and offer my sympathy.
 
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Anderson said:
everyone's collective inclination to no-show rather than cancel.
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Not everyone. I for one don't play the fox-in-the-manger game.

All the talk of illness and death exceptions ... maybe someone's mom just died and the train they need to get on is sold out - "well I'll be damned if I am gonna cancel a reservation if I don't get back my points!"
 
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Yesterday I sent an email to Amtrak expressing my disappointment of their new policy concerning the loss of points when a sleeper reservation is canceled less than 15 days prior to departure. Today I received a response stating that customer input was a determing factor regarding Amtrak policy and my concern would be forwarded to the appropriate persons setting policies. Perhaps if more people expressed their feelings this might be reversed.
 
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I guess I made someone upset by pointing out that straw men arguments are both pointless and dishonest. I guess if you can't defend yourself with honesty you can simply erase the posts of those who disagree with you.
 
the_traveler said:
I agree that "case-by-case" translates to "based on the agent's mood that day"! :blink:

  • My mother died - No problem
  • My daughter is sick and in the hospital - No can do
  • I was stuck in a traffic jam on the way to the train - Tough
  • I was just fired from my job - Take a 60,000 AGR point loss
  • I was laid off for the past 5 months and can't find a new job - I'll give you your 35K back
  • I just got hired and start the job next week - Better start earning those 40K back
  • I booed this trip 8 months ago, but my boss just cancelled my vacation - Too bad about those 120K

if the rules were in black and white, or if there were a fee to redeposit them or a cancellation fee, I could accept it. But not on the whim of the agent's mood!
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My favorite post of the week! Exactly my sentiment, and pretty good comedy to boot.

All we're asking for are clear, published rules that are fair both to Amtrak and the customer. Is that too much to ask?
 
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gatelouse said:
All we're asking for are clear, published rules that are fair both to Amtrak and the customer. Is that too much to ask?
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Well, yes. Apparently it is too much to ask. Given the double-secret, change on a moment's notice, I'd-tell-you-but-then-I'd-have-to-kill-you nature of AGR long-distance sleeper redemption rules, I can't imagine that AGR will be less opaque with regard to allowable cancellations.

But that's the fun of AGR. Every once in a while I roll my saving throw and I get a great deal on an AGR redemption. Works for me. And, of course, if you like long-distance train travel, it's the only game in town.

ETA: I'm out of here. I'm off on a two-week, 7500 mile trip using two one-zone awards and a few paid-for segments, all booked before the increase in bedroom redemption rates back in April. I'm sure there are those who will consider me an abuser of the system, but they'll probably be sitting at home, while I'll be swilling champagne and eating North Dakota caviar as the Empire Builder bucks a winter storm on the Hi Line.
 
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Have fun lspolkom!

I had just finished booking a six zone cross-country trip and this change in policy was announced the next day. The real kicker is that I purposely picked slightly higher priced hotel rooms so that I could have the more flexible cancellation policies on Priceline. Should have saved my money and not bothered.

Because my trip is broken up in a couple of places, it is actually booked as three different trips, not connected. So, I guess one segment might get refunded for extenuating circumstances but segments two and three may not, pending the discretion of the agent?

Seems like a poorly thought-out policy to me.
 
The new policy SUCKS!

What if I got sick and can't take the trip? Will it be possible to move my trip to another date?

And I understand there is no any insurance you can buy to cover that case?
 
colobok said:
The new policy SUCKS! What if I got sick and can't take the trip? Will it be possible to move my trip to another date?

And I understand there is no any insurance you can buy to cover that case?
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Well, you could wait to see if the sickness kills you or someone close to you. If it does you get your points back. Just don't tell anyone you know about this special rule as it's suppose to be a secret.
 
colobok said:
The new policy SUCKS!

What if I got sick and can't take the trip? Will it be possible to move my trip to another date?

And I understand there is no any insurance you can buy to cover that case?
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If you say pretty please in a way that impresses the agent that you speak to you may get it, otherwise not, but apparently Amtrak's policy stands in effect stating that you shall not unless the agent feels like it. :(
 
Isn't it a violation of some Federal regulations?

I don't believe that total loss of paid value can be allowed by law in case of illness or other troubles.
 
Well Amtrak's position is that they will treat such cases sympathetically, which they very well might. But the fact that they won;t tell exactly what those cases are, is what bugs me, since it makes it impossible for me to estimate a loss probability. I have no idea how to model the random thought process of an Amtrak agent to arrive at any meaningful conclusion. :)
 
All good things must end. When United Milage Plus first started, it was a great program that allowed instant redemption with no restrictions. Then slowly over the years,the miles required increased and benifits were revised downward, to where it became difficult and annoying to use. Guest Rewards has followed the airlines down the same path, except it has happened a lot faster. In the coures of only a few months, we had a sustantial increase in points required for a reward, and now this Draconian cancelation policy. I'm sure this won't be the last of the suprises we have in store.
 
Nothing exciting, and no details that people would really want & like, but AGR Insider has posted again on this issue; saying "I've been following the discussion on the redemption policy changes and wanted to advise everyone that we are taking your comments and concerns very seriously. I hope to have a response to your feedback in the next few days."

But at least it appears that they are at least considering things and what everyone has had to say.
 
AlanB said:
Nothing exciting, and no details that people would really want & like, but AGR Insider has posted again on this issue; saying "I've been following the discussion on the redemption policy changes and wanted to advise everyone that we are taking your comments and concerns very seriously. I hope to have a response to your feedback in the next few days."

But at least it appears that they are at least considering things and what everyone has had to say.
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Where is this AGR Insider? If it's not a public site, will you post any further response from them?
 
MaineRider,

It's a public forum called FlyerTalk. It was really started for those who fly a lot and were trying to maximize points and help other's meander through the pitfalls and problems of the various airline programs. But they've since expanded their scope to include hotels, Amtrak, and other FF type programs. AGR Insider is someone who works at Amtrak headquarters right in the office of the top manager for AGR.

You can follow the topic on this particular issue over at FT if you wish by clicking here.

I of course will also continue to relay info and/or link to it as it is posted.
 
I saw that preliminary update as well. I think AGR is possibly concerned about diluting their loyalty program to the point that it would be so far out of line of the airlines that it potentially discourages continued participation. I would advise anyone who wishes to have any input on this issue to post your views on Flyertalk's AGR forum.
 

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