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anir dendroica

OBS Chief
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Jan 2, 2009
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A look at the Status Maps today reveals 11 western LD trains over 90 minutes late. The latest is the CZ #6 (7) currently 10:42 down out of Denver. EB #8 (7) is 7 hours late out of Fargo.

Looks like the blizzard and subzero temps are taking their toll, but at least the trains are still moving.

Mark
 
that's the thing thats better then flying. it takes allot to stop a train. how often have you herd amtrak train the southwest cheif stuck in chicago for 4 horus due to a thunderstorm in LA etc.
 
Does anyone know what's happening on the CZ line?

#6 at Holdrege, NE (HLD) - 12.5 hours late,

#6 at Provo, UT - 5 hours late,

#5 at Fort Morgan, CO - 6 hours late

#5 at Winnemucca, NV - 8.5 hours late

Is it just weather? This is not idle curiousity -- I have a big trip planned for this Saturday with a bunch of friends, 4 sleepers (3 bedrooms and a roomette), DEN-EMY, and it would be a big bummer if we get to San Francisco extremely late. Some of my friends are only in town for one night, and we have lots of fun plans in the works.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
darien-l said:
Does anyone know what's happening on the CZ line? #6 at Holdrege, NE (HLD) - 12.5 hours late,

#6 at Provo, UT - 5 hours late,

#5 at Fort Morgan, CO - 6 hours late

#5 at Winnemucca, NV - 8.5 hours late

Is it just weather? This is not idle curiousity -- I have a big trip planned for this Saturday with a bunch of friends, 4 sleepers (3 bedrooms and a roomette), DEN-EMY, and it would be a big bummer if we get to San Francisco extremely late. Some of my friends are only in town for one night, and we have lots of fun plans in the works.
Click to expand...
Yes, it's weather relate- snow storm! We had a big snow storm few days ago.

According to the weather forecast on your upcoming trip, it's good!
 
Can someone elaborate on exactly how snow storms cause train delays? Are there speed restrictions? Do the tracks need to be plowed? How many inches of snow are needed for the plows to be called in? What is the average speed of the plow? Are avalanches ever an issue these days? Thanks!
 
One of the reasons for storm related delays may be frozen or stuck switches. Without the ability of trains switching tracks, it hampers operations! I'd hate to be on the same track as another train coming the opposite way! :eek:
 
As delays are different with each train, some of the reasons are:

1. as steel is more brittle in cold weather some roads impose a speed restriction at specific temps

2. in many cases switch points must be cleaned to insure proper alignment

3. the human factor, people cannot work outdoors in -30 degrees

4. people have extreme difficulty getting to work in -30 degrees, cars don't start every time, roads are not cleaned, road salt is not effective, etc.

41 years of outdoor work in temps from 107 to -30 degrees have taken a toll on my body.
 
Update on CZ delays from Amtrak Status Maps:

#6 at Hastings, NE - 12.5 hours late,

#6 at Helper, UT - 6.5 hours late,

#5 at Denver, CO - 6 hours late

#5 at Elko, NV - 9.5 hours late

Most impressive...
 
oldtimer2 said:
As delays are different with each train, some of the reasons are:1. as steel is more brittle in cold weather some roads impose a speed restriction at specific temps

2. in many cases switch points must be cleaned to insure proper alignment

3. the human factor, people cannot work outdoors in -30 degrees

4. people have extreme difficulty getting to work in -30 degrees, cars don't start every time, roads are not cleaned, road salt is not effective, etc.

41 years of outdoor work in temps from 107 to -30 degrees have taken a toll on my body.
Click to expand...

Wow, get more answers here than when I first asked!

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?showtopic=30057
 
On our trip in October on the Califronia Zephyr eastbound, I totally forgot that we were delayed for about ten minutes because, they said the cold temperatures had popped some welds on the rails. It was between Grand Junction, Co, & Glenwood Springs, Co IIRC. They had them fixed pretty quick, but if it's really cold, I would assume they check them more often!
 
amtrakwolverine said:
that's the thing thats better then flying. it takes allot to stop a train. how often have you herd amtrak train the southwest cheif stuck in chicago for 4 horus due to a thunderstorm in LA etc.
Click to expand...
Or a flight LAX to ORD being delayed due to a snow storm in Arizona? There are advantages and disadvantages both ways.
 
Down here in Texas when it gets very cold, the big problem is broken rails. These trigger red signals and trains have to just crawl through until it gets fixed. Not much snow down here. If there is it would paralyze operations as most of the switches are not heated. On lines like the CZ or EB travel on sometimes the switch heaters malfunction and the switches freeze up or the blowing snow just overwhelms them. And of course they suffer from broken rails also. One of the shortcomings of welded rail. It shrinks when there is extreme cold and the rail just breaks.
 
henryj said:
Down here in Texas when it gets very cold, the big problem is broken rails. These trigger red signals and trains have to just crawl through until it gets fixed. Not much snow down here. If there is it would paralyze operations as most of the switches are not heated. On lines like the CZ or EB travel on sometimes the switch heaters malfunction and the switches freeze up or the blowing snow just overwhelms them. And of course they suffer from broken rails also. One of the shortcomings of welded rail. It shrinks when there is extreme cold and the rail just breaks.
Click to expand...
On my trips on the CZ I thought I had seen switch heaters and also propane tanks in the general vicinity, are these triggered by the temperature or do they have to be manually turned on? Do they run on propane or are the tanks for something else?
 
I'm going to indulge myself one more time, these delays are getting epic:

#6 at Omaha, NE - 12.5 hours late,

#6 at Grand Junction, CO - 7.5 hours late,

#5 at Granby, CO - 6 hours late

#5 at Winnemucca, NV - 11.5 hours late
 
Darien, this storm was an "epic" storm. Here in LNK we got a foot of snow followed by 40 mph winds. I work for a large delivery company and in my 22 years of employment have never had a "snow day". Well today, we all called in at 6:30am to find out we weren't going out til 12pm and then ...we only delivered for 6 hours. This time of year we get slammed because of Christmas but this one was a humdinger. The winds were insane last night as I was clocking out. I know the guy who runs the Amtrak LNK station and he has a 4-wheel drive, but I also saw 4-wheel drives stuck last night.
 
The funny thing is, for most of the trains above (with the exception of the #5 at Winnemucca, which got massively delayed between Salt Lake City and Elko), the delays seem to accumulate over pretty much the entire route:

* Train 6 of 12/07/2009.

* California Zephyr

* EMY * * 1 950A * 950A Departed: on time.

* MTZ * * 1 1049A * 1029A Departed: on time.

* DAV * * 1 1111A * 1111A Departed: on time.

* SAC * * 1 1149A * 1149A Departed: on time.

* RSV * * 1 1215A * 125P Departed: 1 hour and 10 minutes late.

* COX * * 1 101P * 337P Departed: 2 hours and 36 minutes late.

* TRU * * 1 318P * 610P Departed: 2 hours and 52 minutes late.

* RNO * * 1 446P * 944P Departed: 4 hours and 58 minutes late.

* WNN * * 1 748P * 1259A Departed: 5 hours and 11 minutes late.

* ELK * * 1 1011P * 313A Departed: 5 hours and 2 minutes late.

* SLC 2 345A 2 410A 928A 1002A Departed: 5 hours and 52 minutes late.

* PRO * * 2 515A * 1111A Departed: 5 hours and 56 minutes late.

* HER * * 2 717A * 211P Departed: 6 hours and 54 minutes late.

* GRI * * 2 839A * 331P Departed: 6 hours and 52 minutes late.

* GJT * * 2 1103A * 733P Departed: 8 hours and 30 minutes late.

* GSC * * 2 1250P * 1016P Departed: 9 hours and 26 minutes late.

* GRA * * 2 352P * 131A Departed: 9 hours and 39 minutes late.

* WIP * * 2 430P * 222A Departed: 9 hours and 52 minutes late.

* DEN 2 718P 2 750P 453A 632A Departed: 10 hours and 42 minutes late.

* FMG * * 2 905P * 915A Departed: 12 hours and 10 minutes late.

* MCK * * 3 1229A * 1240P Departed: 12 hours and 11 minutes late.

* HLD * * 3 134A * 157P Departed: 12 hours and 23 minutes late.

* HAS * * 3 222A * 255P Departed: 12 hours and 33 minutes late.

* LNK 3 421A 3 427A 440P 454P Departed: 12 hours and 27 minutes late.

* OMA 3 539A 3 554A 556P 613P Departed: 12 hours and 19 minutes late.

* Train 5 of 12/08/2009.

* California Zephyr

* CHI * * 1 200P * 200P Departed: on time.

* NPV * * 1 234P * 240P Departed: 6 minutes late.

* PCT * * 1 344P * 356P Departed: 12 minutes late.

* GBB * * 1 438P * 451P Departed: 13 minutes late.

* BRL * * 1 525P * 557P Departed: 32 minutes late.

* MTP * * 1 559P * 630P Departed: 31 minutes late.

* OTM * * 1 653P * 723P Departed: 30 minutes late.

* OSC * * 1 809P * 844P Departed: 35 minutes late.

* CRN * * 1 841P * 916P Departed: 35 minutes late.

* OMA 1 1029P 1 1039P 1240A 105A Departed: 2 hours and 26 minutes late.

* LNK 2 1208A 2 1214A 347A 404A Departed: 3 hours and 50 minutes late.

* HAS * * 2 147A * 557A Departed: 4 hours and 10 minutes late.

* HLD * * 2 234A * 646A Departed: 4 hours and 12 minutes late.

* MCK * * 2 343A * 756A Departed: 4 hours and 13 minutes late.

* FMG * * 2 505A * 1054A Departed: 5 hours and 49 minutes late.

* DEN 2 715A 2 805A 1235P 149P Departed: 5 hours and 44 minutes late.

* WIP * * 2 1007A * 409P Departed: 6 hours and 2 minutes late.

* GRA * * 2 1037A * 438P Departed: 6 hours and 1 minute late.

Is the weather the only thing to blame for all these delays?
 
rail_rider said:
henryj said:
Down here in Texas when it gets very cold, the big problem is broken rails. These trigger red signals and trains have to just crawl through until it gets fixed. Not much snow down here. If there is it would paralyze operations as most of the switches are not heated. On lines like the CZ or EB travel on sometimes the switch heaters malfunction and the switches freeze up or the blowing snow just overwhelms them. And of course they suffer from broken rails also. One of the shortcomings of welded rail. It shrinks when there is extreme cold and the rail just breaks.
Click to expand...
On my trips on the CZ I thought I had seen switch heaters and also propane tanks in the general vicinity, are these triggered by the temperature or do they have to be manually turned on? Do they run on propane or are the tanks for something else?
Click to expand...
Yes, the tanks are for propane. Generally, the switch heaters turn on either automatically or by remote control. The tank may be turned off manually during warm weather, late spring to early fall, that is.

Generally, welded rail is set so that the steel is in tension most of the time. This is the safest way, and also easier to maintain. A pull papart due to broken rail tells the signal system you have a problem and where. A buckling due to heat tells you nothing until you are close enough to see it, by which time it is usually too late to stop.

The number of weld that fail, or many times actually in the heat affected zone in the rail near the weld and not the weld itself, is an extremely small percentage of the total welds in track. The aggravation and delays due to the occasional broken rail is proportionately a small price to pay compared to the many benefits of having welded rail in track.
 
By the way, sorry for spamming the board, I'm just getting a little antsy about our trip on Saturday. I managed to convince a whole bunch of people, many of whom have never been on a train before (partly because they hear that Amtrak is "always late") to take a train with me to San Francisco. If our train gets delayed by 12 hours I'll probably never hear the end of it.
 
In early April 2009, we were delayed on the California Zephyr in Nebraska because of high winds- they can really whistle across the plains, and even though Superliners weigh umpteen thousand pounds, they still can be blown over and have to stop in designated areas.
 
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