Viewliner II Part 2: Dining Car Production, Delivery, Speculation
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Funny how with the elimination of full service Dining on two trains and casting the V2D's into some kind of "make work" role on the Lake Shore, who really cares when the final six (Albany, Concord, Dover, Frankfort, Springfield, Tallahassee) enter revenue service?
With the delivery of the three cars observed by Mx. Anderson and Ms. PennyK, there are now enough cars on the property to assign them to the "New England States" (oka 448-449), and have a protect car at each end point.
I must wonder to what extent the three cars "run around" during the intended "by the numbers" delivery plan are flawed. Lips appear to be sealed on that subject.
Finally, the first car, 00 Albany, was a prototype and by the time it is delivered, it could well be in a configuration other than for full service Dining.
With the delivery of the three cars observed by Mx. Anderson and Ms. PennyK, there are now enough cars on the property to assign them to the "New England States" (oka 448-449), and have a protect car at each end point.
I must wonder to what extent the three cars "run around" during the intended "by the numbers" delivery plan are flawed. Lips appear to be sealed on that subject.
Finally, the first car, 00 Albany, was a prototype and by the time it is delivered, it could well be in a configuration other than for full service Dining.
The Crescent no longer has business class, therefore that Amfleet coach is no longer located between the sleepers and baggage car. The Meteor does operate with a third sleeper.
jis
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That is what I was wondering. Surely the Crescent didn't suddenly get a third Sleeper. Did it?
Ryan
Court Jester
I most certainly do. I wouldn't cast their deployment as "make work", I'm on record as stating that the VLIIs would make excellent lounge cars ever since my first meal in the 8400.
cpotisch
Engineer
The diners have a very different frame and completely different interior than that of the baggage cars, sleepers, or bag dorms. Can't imagine it would be worth it to remove/add windows, take out the entire interior, add vestibules, etc.
I think he meant the interior, not the body. Like maybe remove the kitchen and put in chairs, ala SSLs
cpotisch
Engineer
Fair enough. But to that point, and although I like the idea of a V-II SSL, if all they did is replace the kitchen with seating, you would have a weird layout with a bunch of chairs against a windowless wall, across from a single row of windows. That would sort of defeat the purpose of an SSL, at least for half the car.
They could cut holes in the shell and make it a double row of windows for that half, but obviously that would involve a significant amount of work. And since Mr. Norman's thinking was that they would just change the configuration of 68000, since it's a prototype, Amtrak would only have one of these single-level-ex-diner-ViewSightseer cars in the system. Can't think of much of a use for that.
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cpotisch
Engineer
My point is that while I agree with Ryan that ViewDiners would make great lounges, I just don't think it would be worth it to remove the kitchens and screw with the layout just for that.
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jis
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And what happens if the way the winds blow changes in two years after Anderson departs? For now that money is better spent on SOGR I think, rather than fiddling with layouts.
Curious here, Ryan: would you share with us what your vision is of the interior of the diner turned lounge car? As for me, booths with benches wouldn't do it.
cpotisch
Engineer
The current un-modified ViewDiner layout is still infinitely better than the Amfleets, even with the booths.
Ryan
Court Jester
Essentially, that. Perhaps some reconfiguration to make the kitchen area more suitable for a cafe attendant to work a counter (install cash register, etc), but yeah. Booths and tables in a nice looking car with good lighting and visibility are way better than booths and tables in a cave.
Mr. Ryan, I think you are "on track" with your suggested reconfiguration of a V2D. There are six "stations" in the car. Three stay tables, and the other three become "banquets" and/or Lounge seats. The car as constructed is already a "Sightseer of sorts".
With no more on board food preparation, the Kitchen could be cut back and make room for a Conductors' office, i.e. no more setting up shop at a table.
With no more on board food preparation, the Kitchen could be cut back and make room for a Conductors' office, i.e. no more setting up shop at a table.
KnightRail
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More important than the physical equipment used on a long distance cafe is the actual menu. The CEO was recently asked, Will there be an upgrade to the quality of café products on the Lake Shore Limited and Capitol Limited as part of the elimination of the dining car? Response was, Yes. All of the food offerings will be higher quality.
cpotisch
Engineer
With the current surplus of V-II diners, would it be possible for the LSL to operate with another ViewDiner to the cafe car on the LSL? So you would still have the sleeper lounge, but different V-II would operate as the cafe car. This obviously (as was mentioned above) would be a much nicer place to relax than in an AmCan, but they could also utilize the kitchen to provide higher quality meals.
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Well, that will irk some "first class" pax - that the "lowly" coach pax will have food as good as theirs.
Ryan
Court Jester
We have a surplus of ViewDiners?
cpotisch
Engineer
They'll have 19 cars ready for use by the end of the month. And most likely a couple more will have been delivered. Perhaps surplus is an exaggeration, but they certain aren't running low.
Ryan
Court Jester
OK, so we don’t have one now. Glad we’re on the same page.
I wouldn’t expect a ViewDiner in cafe service to serve any different food than the standard cafe menu. That said, it’s clear there are other changes on the horizon, so any speculation at this point will have little to no predictive value.
I wouldn’t expect a ViewDiner in cafe service to serve any different food than the standard cafe menu. That said, it’s clear there are other changes on the horizon, so any speculation at this point will have little to no predictive value.
Ziv
Conductor
What? Speculation will have no predictive value? 
That may be true, but curtailing speculation on this site would mean that this thread would have had just 10 or 12 pages instead of its current 91 pages. ;-)
I am a bit of a newby here, but sometimes the speculation aspect is all that there is to talk about since Amtrak is giving us so little.
That may be true, but curtailing speculation on this site would mean that this thread would have had just 10 or 12 pages instead of its current 91 pages. ;-)
I am a bit of a newby here, but sometimes the speculation aspect is all that there is to talk about since Amtrak is giving us so little.
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Concur:
19-20 4 cars
97-98 4 cars
448-449 4 cars
SSY protect 1
BOS protect 1
CHI protect 1
NOL protect 1
HIA protect 1
Shops HIA BEE 2 cars
Think that makes 19
Nothing has come to anyone's attention to suggest any difficulties with delivery with 23 Springfield and 24 Tallahassee. When "Son of Summer from Hell" is over and 48-49 resumes service, there will no longer be need for a BOS protect and only three cars are needed for an NYP-CHI 48-49.
The current longe car on the LSL is also BC
PerRock
Engineer
Personally if I were converting I'd probably re-do most of the interior & style the layout a bit after some of the BR food service cars. It'd be more aligned with a cafe then a lounge...
Essentially, leave most of the booths. A small section you take out for a standing-room area. As for the food service area, the part closest to the dining area gets converted into counter service section, with the rear portion still being a kitchen os sorts being able to provide select hot meals (hot bacon/sausage egg sandwhich, omelet, etc. for breakfast; essentially anything cheap & easy you can cook on a griddle/grill)
peter
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I somehow think not a lot money is going to be spent until Amtrak management has figured out the final plan of what they are doing with F&B. Until then, I would expect just minor adjustments.
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