protocol for cutting through dining car?

[the_traveler]

Without getting into details or (hopefully) an argument, I can tell you from personal experience that not every homeless person does not not have money to spend on train tickets.

I may joke that I have "The Penthouse Suite" and that I have oodles of money lining around. The truth is that on paper, I have a net worth of over $1 million - thus making me a millionaire! But it's all paper, and I live from paycheck to paycheck. In fact I live in Section 8 housing! I could pay a "regular" rent, but it would stretch me to the limit!

I could very easily have been "one of those homeless people" despite being a millionaire!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I have a net worth of over $1 million - thus making me a millionaire! But it's all paper, and I live from paycheck to paycheck. In fact I live in Section 8 housing! I could pay a "regular" rent, but it would stretch me to the limit! I could very easily have been "one of those homeless people" despite being a millionaire!

I'm the last of my bloodline and I've had financial experts tell me that thanks to our disappearing safety nets and our skyrocketing healthcare costs I'd probably need to save up at least a million dollars to retire comfortably in the US on my own. I doubt it's even possible for me to save that much, let alone probable, so I've decided I'll probably just retire somewhere else instead.

 

[crescent2]

I usually shy away from threads that go this way (well, except for the ones in which someone has placed him or her self in front of a train and gets no empathy), but I'll put in my 2 cents worth, too.

I think the problem is the "one bad apple spoils the barrel" perception thing. Because a few homeless or poverty-stricken people do ask for food money and then spend it on alcohol or drugs or whatever pressing need they feel at the time, there can be a tendency to not want to help the others. The same thing happens when one is behind someone who is chatting on an iPhone in its cute little case and wearing $150 sneakers in line at the grocery store, and they pay with food stamps. I have witnessed that myself too many times, but irritating as it is, it's just the way it is around here. But we must be careful to not then assume that "most people" on food stamps are likewise abusing the system. Mostly likely "most people" are not.

This is frustratingly even a problem for churches, of which I was made aware just last week. The pastor was leading a discussion on the good Samaritan, and someone pointed out that the Samaritan gave the money for the care of the victim to the innkeeper, not to the victim himself. We don't know the reason for that--whether the victim was physically unable to take responsibility, or if there was a fear that otherwise he might not have used the money as intended. The pastor also said that just that day, the church had received five phone calls requesting help, which he said was about the usual daily volume. This is a small country church, with only around 400 members on the roll and perhaps 275 or so attending fairly regularly. He said that, because after paying the bills there are of course only X dollars left, each request must be considered individually. The church has "learned the hard way" that it's sometimes best to provide food instead of $$ when there is a request for food money, for example. I know this church generously helps those in the community and nearby elementary school (I taught there 20 years), and it's somewhat depressing to learn that even small churches have been burned. But, as the pastor pointed out, it is definitely our duty to help those in need, and we must guard against becoming too cynical and focusing on the bad apple. I think we need to do as our conscience directs, and if the help is misused, that is on the misuser, not on the giver.

With just a couple of decisions made differently at crucial times in our lives, many of us could have found ourselves in much different shoes now.

Bottom line, as someone said, those bad apples do make it harder on the ones who genuinely need help. As in most stories, there are two sides to this one, probably depending upon one's personal experiences in the matter. I hope that personally I can err on the side of generosity.

June and others, thankfully there are many people like you who are still willing to help others!

 

[Ryan]

The same thing happens when one is behind someone who is chatting on an iPhone in its cute little case and wearing $150 sneakers in line at the grocery store, and they pay with food stamps. I have witnessed that myself too many times, but irritating as it is, it's just the way it is around here. But we must be careful to not then assume that "most people" on food stamps are likewise abusing the system. Mostly likely "most people" are not.

You can get an iPhone for free these days, and the sneakers may have been a gift or purchased at a thrift store. Even the people that you think are abusing the system may not.

Unless you're dying in the street we presume you must have a secret stash of cash or other nest egg you're hiding from those why might wish to help you.

And if you are dying in the street, it's because you're a lazy shiftless bum that can't be bothered to work and would probably spend any assistance you give them to buy drugs or booze, so why bother.
God forbid we show a little compassion for our fellow man.

Ryan I know you are kidding, but you would be so surprised at the number of people who actually believe this. Traveling in coach, there have almost always been someone who is moving with their last dime paying for the ticket. I have encountered a couple woman, one in her 30's and one in her 60's who had finally gotten away from an abusive husband and were traveling to live with their parents. One had two little kids who kept saying they were hungry. Half way thru the trip, I got my disability deposited to my account, so I made sure they all ate a good meal. The mother cried when I made the offer and made a reservation for the diner for 4, her and her two kids and myself. The one time I did not worry about walking up the stairs and dealing with the pain. I had to take care of these kids.
So many people just judge the outward appearance and being disabled with mostly invisible diseases, I know first hand how cruel people can be.

Thanks for sharing, June that's a great story.

 

[Bob Dylan]

:hi: Good Posts June and Crescent2! We Are our Brothers Keeper and just because a few Bad Apples abuse the System is No Reason to Deny Help to Those in Need! (most of whom are Children!!! )

Not all Rich People are Skinflints and Tax Avoiders, in fact the Really Wealthy like Warren Buffet, Mike Dell, Bill Gates, the Rockefellers, the Fords etc. are very Giving and Do Good with their Assets! ("To those that Much is Given, Much is Expected in Return!")

 

[Gord]

There also used to be a universal protocol on US and Canadian passenger trains requiring all operating and sleeping car personnel that were required to wear hats on duty, to remove them when passing through the diner. This seems to have gradually been forgotten over the past couple of decades.

Gord

 

[Shortline]

There also used to be a universal protocol on US and Canadian passenger trains requiring all operating and sleeping car personnel that were required to wear hats on duty, to remove them when passing through the diner. This seems to have gradually been forgotten over the past couple of decades.
Gord

I may be mistaken, but I think I read somewhere that they are required to wear hats when passing through. I could be wrong, but I remember reading or hearing that from somewhere.

 

[JayPea]

I recall an instance when, several years ago, an article appeared in the Spokane paper about the city's homeless. There were a couple of cases in which homeless men were quoted as saying something to the affect that why should they work when they made more by "looking pathetic" and standing on a street corner. And sneered at the gullibility of people who gave them money. And in another case, I was approached by a man outside a Wal-Mart who had a sad story to tell about being on the road with a broken-down vehicle and a lot of kids. Turns out he was arrested a week later for scamming large amounts of money from people and he was a professional con artist.

The above stories are examples of why some people are skeptics toward the less fortunate. All that said, I wish people would stop brushing all such folks with the same broad brush. I know I have given strangers on the street money several times. What they did with the money was none of my business as far as I was concerned.

 

[SarahZ]

Whenever we go to Chicago, I box my leftovers and give them to the first homeless person I see. I've noticed that they sometimes get yelled at to leave a drug store or corner store, so giving them money for food doesn't always help (and I don't carry much cash, maybe $5 at a time).

It just breaks my heart. It's so hard to see homeless people and stray animals. They're always the first things I think of when bad weather hits an area.

Wow. This got way off-topic.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I know I have given strangers on the street money several times. What they did with the money was none of my business as far as I was concerned.

Same here

 

[Ryan]

There also used to be a universal protocol on US and Canadian passenger trains requiring all operating and sleeping car personnel that were required to wear hats on duty, to remove them when passing through the diner. This seems to have gradually been forgotten over the past couple of decades.

Gord

I may be mistaken, but I think I read somewhere that they are required to wear hats when passing through. I could be wrong, but I remember reading or hearing that from somewhere.

Backwards - required to take them off:

I believe it is in the Employee regulations for conductors to remove their hats in the Dining Car. I don't have it with me but if anyone has the citation I believe it is in there.

You're correct, it's in the Blue Book.
Page 5-14 of the 2011 version:

Hats that are required, must be worn when in uniform. (When entering the Dining Car, hats must be removed and carried under the arm as a matter of common civility.)

 

[Devil's Advocate]

There were a couple of cases in which homeless men were quoted as saying something to the affect that why should they work when they made more by "looking pathetic" and standing on a street corner.

In a sense they do work. You could say their job is selling dignity and that they've found their dignity is worth more to a handful of strangers on the street than it's worth to those who employ unskilled labor. That's one of the biggest struggles for people near the bottom. If they try to turn things around and eventually find themselves regularly working an unskilled job they can end up taking a larger hit to their support network, including access to things like food and medicine. It's kind of sadistic, in a manner of speaking, if you consider what that says about our own society.

It's like trying to climb a ladder where the steps in the middle have been removed. It's hard to get from the bottom to the top. Even if you're near the top but you end up dropping one rung too many it's a long fall to the next support level. It's a bad situation that's surprisingly easy to fall into and surprisingly hard to climb out of once you're there. I guess I don't worry so much about the fear of being scammed by a confidence artist as I do about intentionally ignoring average folks who get burned by a system that in some ways is designed to work against them.

 

[BCL]

There also used to be a universal protocol on US and Canadian passenger trains requiring all operating and sleeping car personnel that were required to wear hats on duty, to remove them when passing through the diner. This seems to have gradually been forgotten over the past couple of decades.

Gord

I may be mistaken, but I think I read somewhere that they are required to wear hats when passing through. I could be wrong, but I remember reading or hearing that from somewhere.

At many of the places I dine, food service employees are required to wear some sort of hair covering, whether it's a hat or a hairnet. Once I was at a food concession line at a baseball game, and asked why the cashier/server didn't take his cap off during the national anthem. He said he was required to keep it on as a matter of his employer's food safety standards. There might have also been state, county, or city ordinances.

 

[crescent2]

:hi: Good Posts June and Crescent2! We Are our Brothers Keeper and just because a few Bad Apples abuse the System is No Reason to Deny Help to Those in Need! (most of whom are Children!!! )
Not all Rich People are Skinflints and Tax Avoiders, in fact the Really Wealthy like Warren Buffet, Mike Dell, Bill Gates, the Rockefellers, the Fords etc. are very Giving and Do Good with their Assets! ("To those that Much is Given, Much is Expected in Return!")

Good post yourself, Jim, and good point about some of the very wealthy!

I do believe you've read a Good Book.

 

[zogburr]

So, do men wear hats while eating in the diner car? Passing thru? Just wondering since I will generally be wearing a baseball type of hat on my next trip this week.

 

[scotty]

So, do men wear hats while eating in the diner car? Passing thru? Just wondering since I will generally be wearing a baseball type of hat on my next trip this week.

I once wore my Piper's hat as sort of a joke into the diner with the group of us who were going to perform in Kansas at a gathering, and the dining car supervisor told me to take it off because it obscured her view of part of the diner! I had to go back to the sleeper and put it here, since if I had taken it off in the diner, it would have blocked the aisle, or looked like I had a sort of "person" in my lap!

Have to say, the dining car supervisor didn't have much of a sense of humor. But the waiter sort of apologized with a wink, so we left him a big tip (though later found he probably has to share it with the supervisor?)

 

[Ispolkom]

So, do men wear hats while eating in the diner car? Passing thru? Just wondering since I will generally be wearing a baseball type of hat on my next trip this week.

Sure, men wear hats while eating in the dining car. People also come to the dining car for breakfast in pajamas, and have to be repeatedly told to wear shoes. We live in a fallen age.

 

[The Davy Crockett]

So, do men wear hats while eating in the diner car? Passing thru? Just wondering since I will generally be wearing a baseball type of hat on my next trip this week.

Unless there is something mighty unique or noticeable about your hat, nobody will give it a second look.

IMHO: Some people have hair that has a mind of its own and, after the right amount of time on a train, really look better with something containing the 'rat's nest' that has formed on top of their head.

 

[SarahZ]

My boyfriend wears his hat in the dining car. It's a baseball cap; he uses it to help hold his hair back. He does take it off for the National Anthem, so I don't nag him on the train. I figure if people are going to show up in sweats and pajamas, a nice, clean baseball cap is hardly noticeable.

 

[FriskyFL]

Bum Phillips, former head coach of the Houston Oilers and New Orleans Saints, never wore his trademark Stetson during home games in the 'Dome. His simple explanation was, " My mamma taught me to never wear my hat indoors".

Words of wisdom to live by.

 

[SarahZ]

Bum Phillips, former head coach of the Houston Oilers and New Orleans Saints, never wore his trademark Stetson during home games in the 'Dome. His simple explanation was, " My mamma taught me to never wear my hat indoors".
Words of wisdom to live by.

Yeah, my boyfriend is Southern too, so it really surprises me that he wears his hat indoors, but he's also super stubborn and refuses to wear a tie. Ever. He has a lot of the old-school Southern manners, and he's very polite and treats me like a lady, but the hat stays on in the dining car.

To be fair, he takes it off in most restaurants (he'll leave it on at Denny's and places like that), and he takes it off when we go into a church or someone's house. I think he thinks of Amtrak's dining car more like a diner than a restaurant. I, on the other hand, always freshen my makeup and brush my hair before heading in there, and I change my top for dinner (from a casual shirt to something a little nicer).

 

[leemell]

I was taught by the Air Force that if you are under cover, your cover is OFF. I still follow that rule. I never wear a hat on the train let alone in the dining car. BTW, apropos of that training I use sir and ma'am to people I don't know. The other day I watched man get ripped by a female supermarket clerk for addressing her as ma'am. I found this clerks action very offensive. It is a form of courtesy and respect.

OK, now back to trains. Just be courteous and respectful of the staff and patrons and it is fine.

 

[roomette]

It is a form of courtesy and respect.

It used to be that ***** and gay we're not offensive, also.

OK, now back to trains. Just be courteous and respectful of the staff and patrons and it is fine.

 

[leemell]

When did that become offensive? I've been using it for almost 50 years and that was the first time I ever saw or heard it.

 

[chakk]

There also used to be a universal protocol on US and Canadian passenger trains requiring all operating and sleeping car personnel that were required to wear hats on duty, to remove them when passing through the diner. This seems to have gradually been forgotten over the past couple of decades.

Gord

I may be mistaken, but I think I read somewhere that they are required to wear hats when passing through. I could be wrong, but I remember reading or hearing that from somewhere.

Every conductor (save one) that I have seen on the CZ removed his/her hat when walking though the dining car.