Sunset Limited BULLETIN

[NativeSon5859]

GML, for the record, New Orleans, as Alan has said, has come back as a destination city. The convention business has returned and the airlines are consistently increasing service. Two, three years ago your opinion was accurate. If AMTRAK thinks that New Orleans is still lacking in the tourism department or what have you (which I somehow doubt they do), they are sadly mistaken. Also, the population has continued to increase, and the metro area is roughly 90% of what it was before the storm...and the catchment area for people using New Orleans as a transportation hub (air, rail, etc) is unchanged...perhaps even more than it was.

 

[henryj]

Ridiculous, some of your reasoning. A standard snack-car is inadequate for a 573-mile, 12 hour run. Amtrak has spare CCCs, as we all know- and they would be coming off of the Eagle anyway- it would get the Sunsets diners. The point for using a CCC is better meals with better throughput then a snack coach or sightseer. It doesn't have to offer the level of service provided elsewhere. Your thinking is symptomatic of the kind of unimaginative rubbish that has prevented Amtrak from making an operating profit over the past 40 years, something I personally believe it can do.
Please. I expect this kind of childish unsubstantiated unilateral dismissal out of a 16 year old newbie on a forum based around a video game. I hold you to a higher standard of thinking.

GML for once on here I agree with you. Alan is acting like a kid that has had his toys taken away and is pouting in the corner. I look at this as the first positive thing Amtrak has done for this route in decades. It may not be perfect or exactly what we want but it is progress finally. Daily service. I am estatic. We have next to nothing from Amtrak down here in Texas. This is a great leap forward for us. Lets get behind it and make it work. If it needs tweaking and improving in the future we can do that. Quit the bickering and sour grapes. I want this. Texas needs this. I just have my fingers crossed waiting to see if it really comes to pass. I plan to be at the depot to greet the first train. I am already planning a trip to New Orleans and San Antonio to sample the new service. Next summer I am going to the Garden Railway convention in Tacoma. Now I may have daily service to pick from when I make my reservations. Fantastic.

 

[wayman]

GML, for the record, New Orleans, as Alan has said, has come back as a destination city. The convention business has returned and the airlines are consistently increasing service. Two, three years ago your opinion was accurate. If AMTRAK thinks that New Orleans is still lacking in the tourism department or what have you (which I somehow doubt they do), they are sadly mistaken. Also, the population has continued to increase, and the metro area is roughly 90% of what it was before the storm...and the catchment area for people using New Orleans as a transportation hub (air, rail, etc) is unchanged...perhaps even more than it was.

NativeSon, I am so glad to hear this! My first and only trip to New Orleans was in 2007, for a week of service work almost two years to the day after Katrina hit. And outside the French Quarter, the city was just not there. Sounds like it's time to start planning another trip. Is it too early to cast my vote for having the Gathering in New Orleans in 2010? Who knows what the heck trains will be serving the city by then, but we'll certainly have no shortage of things to talk about once we get there if half the folks arrive on the Sunrise/Sunset/sleeper/nosleeper/CityofNOL/CityofMIA. The very last official Gathering activity could be a ride from NOL to Slidell to bid farewell to TheTraveler as he embarks on a Loophole trip!

 

[NativeSon5859]

GML, for the record, New Orleans, as Alan has said, has come back as a destination city. The convention business has returned and the airlines are consistently increasing service. Two, three years ago your opinion was accurate. If AMTRAK thinks that New Orleans is still lacking in the tourism department or what have you (which I somehow doubt they do), they are sadly mistaken. Also, the population has continued to increase, and the metro area is roughly 90% of what it was before the storm...and the catchment area for people using New Orleans as a transportation hub (air, rail, etc) is unchanged...perhaps even more than it was.

NativeSon, I am so glad to hear this! My first and only trip to New Orleans was in 2007, for a week of service work almost two years to the day after Katrina hit. And outside the French Quarter, the city was just not there. Sounds like it's time to start planning another trip. Is it too early to cast my vote for having the Gathering in New Orleans in 2010? Who knows what the heck trains will be serving the city by then, but we'll certainly have no shortage of things to talk about once we get there if half the folks arrive on the Sunrise/Sunset/sleeper/nosleeper/CityofNOL/CityofMIA. The very last official Gathering activity could be a ride from NOL to Slidell to bid farewell to TheTraveler as he embarks on a Loophole trip!

wayman, come on down! If you need to know what's really going on in N.O, just ask me. Might as well get the info from the source instead of relying on what people hear in the national media, that's what I always say. Much has changed for the better since 2007...much needs to be done of course but I can see a vast difference between now and then in just about every area.

And for the record, if the stub train HAS to happen, for the love of all that is holy do not call it the "Texas Sunrise". I couldn't possibly think of a worse name. I'd rather it not have a name if the T.S is all they can come up with. Come on Amtrak P.R/Marketing folks, work with me on this one, please! lol

 

[Bill Haithcoat]

GML, for the record, New Orleans, as Alan has said, has come back as a destination city. The convention business has returned and the airlines are consistently increasing service. Two, three years ago your opinion was accurate. If AMTRAK thinks that New Orleans is still lacking in the tourism department or what have you (which I somehow doubt they do), they are sadly mistaken. Also, the population has continued to increase, and the metro area is roughly 90% of what it was before the storm...and the catchment area for people using New Orleans as a transportation hub (air, rail, etc) is unchanged...perhaps even more than it was.

NativeSon, I am so glad to hear this! My first and only trip to New Orleans was in 2007, for a week of service work almost two years to the day after Katrina hit. And outside the French Quarter, the city was just not there. Sounds like it's time to start planning another trip. Is it too early to cast my vote for having the Gathering in New Orleans in 2010? Who knows what the heck trains will be serving the city by then, but we'll certainly have no shortage of things to talk about once we get there if half the folks arrive on the Sunrise/Sunset/sleeper/nosleeper/CityofNOL/CityofMIA. The very last official Gathering activity could be a ride from NOL to Slidell to bid farewell to TheTraveler as he embarks on a Loophole trip!

And the other half can arrive on the Crescent/Argonaut/GoldenState/Alamo/Accadian

 

[Montanan]

And for the record, if the stub train HAS to happen, for the love of all that is holy do not call it the "Texas Sunrise". I couldn't possibly think of a worse name. I'd rather it not have a name if the T.S is all they can come up with. Come on Amtrak P.R/Marketing folks, work with me on this one, please! lol

Agreed!!!!!

 

[TVRM610]

I think my head is spinning... GML is making more sense then AlanB? What happened to the universe! haha.

Alan... what do you think Amtrak should do? I thought the deal was that they have no extra equipment, and this was worked out as an option becasue it requires no additional equipment... so how can they go daily with the Sunset, and the TE yet not use any additional equipment? If there is a way to do that... by all means I would be for that however if not... I like the changes as is... because I think daily service is better than tri-weekly service even if you have to make connections.

As for the CCC.... Alan, GML made it very clear that he was saying Amtrak WILL have extra CCC's for the Stub train because the Eagle will operate with the Sunset's Full Diner. I would bet that the stub train will get the CCC's from the TE however I make no guesses to how amtrak will operate them as far as staffing and the level of food service offered.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

And for the record, if the stub train HAS to happen, for the love of all that is holy do not call it the "Texas Sunrise". I couldn't possibly think of a worse name. I'd rather it not have a name if the T.S is all they can come up with. Come on Amtrak P.R/Marketing folks, work with me on this one, please! lol

Agreed!!!!!

Sounds like a weird sexual act that pops up in urbandictionary.com

"Dude, I gave my girl a Texas Sunrise last night!"

"Classic man, classic."

 

[NativeSon5859]

And for the record, if the stub train HAS to happen, for the love of all that is holy do not call it the "Texas Sunrise". I couldn't possibly think of a worse name. I'd rather it not have a name if the T.S is all they can come up with. Come on Amtrak P.R/Marketing folks, work with me on this one, please! lol

Agreed!!!!!

Sounds like a weird sexual act that pops up in urbandictionary.com

"Dude, I gave my girl a Texas Sunrise last night!"

"Classic man, classic."

LOL!

Yeah, that, or some cheesy tourist drink they serve on the Riverwalk in SAT.

 

[AlanB]

I think my head is spinning... GML is making more sense then AlanB? What happened to the universe! haha.

Since when does in make sense to cut revenue and passenger services?

Alan... what do you think Amtrak should do? I thought the deal was that they have no extra equipment, and this was worked out as an option becasue it requires no additional equipment... so how can they go daily with the Sunset, and the TE yet not use any additional equipment? If there is a way to do that... by all means I would be for that however if not... I like the changes as is... because I think daily service is better than tri-weekly service even if you have to make connections.

People keep repeating this bit about no new equipment. I've never seen that promise and I don't believe that it's possible, note my comment on the diners below for example. This plan must get at least a few extra cars that are not currently in the equipment pool in order to work.

As for my plan, that's hard to do without all the numbers, like equipment availablity and the research that I'm saying is lacking. However, I for one continue to wonder what would be possible if instead of taking many of the wreckes to beef up the Empire Builder, we sent that equipment to the Sunset, made it daily, and made it the "southern Empire Builder" in terms of service and quality.

Consider my numbers posted earlier regarding sleeper revenue. Back in 2003/2004, the little 3 day a week Sunset was pulling in more revenue than 6 daily trains were. And if I play my little trick of extrapolating the 3 day revenue into 7 days, the Sunset's sleeper revenue would vault that train into 4th place, behind only the Auto Train, Zephyr, and the Southwest Chief in that order. It passes the Empire Builder's revenue! Now I will grant that the EB's sleeper revenue probably has increased since the revamping of the train, I didn't go compare that. But just think what could be done with the Sunset got many of the wreck repairs, went daily, and got a little marketing from TEMPO.

As for the CCC.... Alan, GML made it very clear that he was saying Amtrak WILL have extra CCC's for the Stub train because the Eagle will operate with the Sunset's Full Diner. I would bet that the stub train will get the CCC's from the TE however I make no guesses to how amtrak will operate them as far as staffing and the level of food service offered.

TVRM, please take note of exactly what GML said, as I've requoted him below and I've boldened the relevent part that invoked my response to him.

Amtrak has spare CCCs, as we all know- and they would be coming off of the Eagle anyway- it would get the Sunsets diners.

It should also be noted that the Sunset does not have enough dining cars to fully outfit an extended Texas Eagle. Additional dining cars will have to be found.

 

[AlanB]

GML for once on here I agree with you. Alan is acting like a kid that has had his toys taken away and is pouting in the corner. I look at this as the first positive thing Amtrak has done for this route in decades. It may not be perfect or exactly what we want but it is progress finally. Daily service. I am estatic. We have next to nothing from Amtrak down here in Texas. This is a great leap forward for us. Lets get behind it and make it work. If it needs tweaking and improving in the future we can do that. Quit the bickering and sour grapes. I want this. Texas needs this. I just have my fingers crossed waiting to see if it really comes to pass. I plan to be at the depot to greet the first train. I am already planning a trip to New Orleans and San Antonio to sample the new service. Next summer I am going to the Garden Railway convention in Tacoma. Now I may have daily service to pick from when I make my reservations. Fantastic.

Henry,

Frankly I expected better from you than this.

The Sunset Limited means nothing to me. I've been on it twice in my lifetime, once JAX-NOL and just recently NOL-LAX, and frankly don't know if I'll ever be on it again. Not saying that I hated it, it's just not a convienent train for me to ride. So I'm not looking at this from a personel perspective. I don't care what kind of service runs for my own needs.

I care that my numbers show that a Daily Sunset Limited would do so much better than this proposed plan. And I continue to believe that a daily SL is possible with wreck repairs until someone can show me the numbers that make it impossible. And I care that this is being done without careful research and planning. Amtrak isn't looking at the alternatives, they are only looking at the plan.

Yes, Texas in some sense of the word will be doing better with a daily stub train than it is doing right now. But why isn't Amtrak looking to see if they can't do even better. It's obvious that the sleeper revenues are there if Amtrak will just take a deep breath and figure out how to make the SL daily.

I want daily service for Texas too, but I don't want it at the cost of decreased revenue. And I don't want it with the risk that the loss of the sleepers means that revenue dips even lower and Amtrak one day turns to Texas and says "pay up or loose the service." That's not to anyone's benefit, mine or anyone living along that route. Amtrak is rushing into this and at least from my perspective, without properly studying the alternatives, much less proper studying of the plan as it is.

Why?

I want to know.

I don't object to this plan on principle or fancy. I object to this plan because no one can prove that it won't make things worse or better. No one can prove that a daily Sunset can't be done and that it wouldn't be better than this plan. And finally because no one can prove that Amtrak has researched anything.

 

[haolerider]

GML for once on here I agree with you. Alan is acting like a kid that has had his toys taken away and is pouting in the corner. I look at this as the first positive thing Amtrak has done for this route in decades. It may not be perfect or exactly what we want but it is progress finally. Daily service. I am estatic. We have next to nothing from Amtrak down here in Texas. This is a great leap forward for us. Lets get behind it and make it work. If it needs tweaking and improving in the future we can do that. Quit the bickering and sour grapes. I want this. Texas needs this. I just have my fingers crossed waiting to see if it really comes to pass. I plan to be at the depot to greet the first train. I am already planning a trip to New Orleans and San Antonio to sample the new service. Next summer I am going to the Garden Railway convention in Tacoma. Now I may have daily service to pick from when I make my reservations. Fantastic.

Henry,

Frankly I expected better from you than this.

The Sunset Limited means nothing to me. I've been on it twice in my lifetime, once JAX-NOL and just recently NOL-LAX, and frankly don't know if I'll ever be on it again. Not saying that I hated it, it's just not a convienent train for me to ride. So I'm not looking at this from a personel perspective. I don't care what kind of service runs for my own needs.

I care that my numbers show that a Daily Sunset Limited would do so much better than this proposed plan. And I continue to believe that a daily SL is possible with wreck repairs until someone can show me the numbers that make it impossible. And I care that this is being done without careful research and planning. Amtrak isn't looking at the alternatives, they are only looking at the plan.

Yes, Texas in some sense of the word will be doing better with a daily stub train than it is doing right now. But why isn't Amtrak looking to see if they can't do even better. It's obvious that the sleeper revenues are there if Amtrak will just take a deep breath and figure out how to make the SL daily.

I want daily service for Texas too, but I don't want it at the cost of decreased revenue. And I don't want it with the risk that the loss of the sleepers means that revenue dips even lower and Amtrak one day turns to Texas and says "pay up or loose the service." That's not to anyone's benefit, mine or anyone living along that route. Amtrak is rushing into this and at least from my perspective, without properly studying the alternatives, much less proper studying of the plan as it is.

Why?

I want to know.

Alan: I don't see where Amtrak is rushing into this, since the concept was developed by the 2009 RPI team, which began work on the Sunset/Eagle in early 2009 and involved every department in the company to analyze and examine all the alternatives. There was no "1st choice" in this work and it was done the same way all RPI work has been done for the past several years - a meeting with all departments present providing ideas, concepts, thoughts, suggestions, etc. All these ideas were prioritized and then each of them was carefully examined for correctness - crew costs, fuel costs, connection times, sleeper & diner allocations were all involved and the various Divisions had opportunities to weigh-in on each of the details. TEMPO has been involved as well and the positives seems to out weigh the negatives. This was not a commissioned study as has been done on other route studies, but a very involved internal examination of the idea. It has been tweaked, torn apart, put back together and approved all along the line of authority - up to and including the Executive Committee and the Board. It benefits the Coast Starlight and the Capitol Limted with better connection times and eliminates excessive dwell times along the route - as well as providing better arrival departure times in some of the larger cities along the route. Not everything is perfect, but it is a good plan that will benefit Amtrak and the route in general. Daily is always much better than three days per week.

 

[nferr]

It's funny everyone is talking about revenue and nobody talks about expenses. The comparison of the Palmetto to the Sunset is ridiculous. Yes the Sunset with sleepers brings in more revenue per run. But you're adding on sleeper cars that cost $3 mill per. You're adding attendants to work those cars, you're adding dining service to serve those cars, etc., etc. The Palmetto has a couple of coach attendants and a lounge car. Let's get real here.

 

[frequentflyer]

And for the record, if the stub train HAS to happen, for the love of all that is holy do not call it the "Texas Sunrise". I couldn't possibly think of a worse name. I'd rather it not have a name if the T.S is all they can come up with. Come on Amtrak P.R/Marketing folks, work with me on this one, please! lol

Agreed!!!!!

I got an idea, "The Gulf Breeze", as a name.

 

[AlanB]

Alan: I don't see where Amtrak is rushing into this, since the concept was developed by the 2009 RPI team, which began work on the Sunset/Eagle in early 2009 and involved every department in the company to analyze and examine all the alternatives. There was no "1st choice" in this work and it was done the same way all RPI work has been done for the past several years - a meeting with all departments present providing ideas, concepts, thoughts, suggestions, etc. All these ideas were prioritized and then each of them was carefully examined for correctness - crew costs, fuel costs, connection times, sleeper & diner allocations were all involved and the various Divisions had opportunities to weigh-in on each of the details. TEMPO has been involved as well and the positives seems to out weigh the negatives. This was not a commissioned study as has been done on other route studies, but a very involved internal examination of the idea. It has been tweaked, torn apart, put back together and approved all along the line of authority - up to and including the Executive Committee and the Board. It benefits the Coast Starlight and the Capitol Limted with better connection times and eliminates excessive dwell times along the route - as well as providing better arrival departure times in some of the larger cities along the route. Not everything is perfect, but it is a good plan that will benefit Amtrak and the route in general. Daily is always much better than three days per week.

If Amtrak needs 2 to 3 years to consider and implimnet the other plans/commisioned studies, then going from early 2009 to early 2010 for implimentation is rushing things, as that's barely a year.

Regarding all the work done at Amtrak in the various departments, I do appreciate that. And I don't belittle it either. But I want to see it for myself. This shouldn't be a secret, especially not to TEMPO. Besides, if you'll forgive me, frankly since David Gunn's departure, Amtrak's record has been to cut expenses without regard to whether that makes sense or not in terms of what's being cut. I've seen too many things done where they only looked at the expense side without factoring in revenue changes because of those changes, nor what it means for the passenger.

As for the better connections/arrival times, that's a function of reducing the 10-1/2 hours of padding that Amtrak added to the Sunset route 8 to 9 years ago, not a function of this plan. Amtrak doesn't need to change anything, except the current schedules to improve those connections/arrival times. I'm not suggesting that it's not good to be improving those times, just that one doesn't need the demise of the Sunset Limited to do that.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

It's funny everyone is talking about revenue and nobody talks about expenses. The comparison of the Palmetto to the Sunset is ridiculous. Yes the Sunset with sleepers brings in more revenue per run. But you're adding on sleeper cars that cost $3 mill per. You're adding attendants to work those cars, you're adding dining service to serve those cars, etc., etc. The Palmetto has a couple of coach attendants and a lounge car. Let's get real here.

A mostly full sleeper brings in about $4,000 more than a completely full coach (using both Superliners). That's $4,000 more per day... 1.46 million dollars per year per car. Just two sleepers and you've increased revenue by just under 3 million. Now assume not all sleepers will be full ect ect and bring the number down by over 30% to 2 million even... we're still talking 2 million dollars a year.

I think that offsets the costs, don't you?

This is the truth, the fact, the science since the Pullman days:

Sleepers. Make. Money.

 

[AlanB]

It's funny everyone is talking about revenue and nobody talks about expenses. The comparison of the Palmetto to the Sunset is ridiculous. Yes the Sunset with sleepers brings in more revenue per run. But you're adding on sleeper cars that cost $3 mill per. You're adding attendants to work those cars, you're adding dining service to serve those cars, etc., etc. The Palmetto has a couple of coach attendants and a lounge car. Let's get real here.

First, with respect, I did compare expenses. And indeed the Palmetto's are lower. But then the Palmetto shares overhead expenses with many other trains, reducing it's share of those expenses.

Second, if we take your argument, then we should be pulling the sleepers off of every LD train. Remember, if I take the Sunset Limited's old sleeper dollars pre-Katrina and adjust for 7 day a week service, it would be taking in more revenue than the Empire Builder and most other LD trains. How can their expenses be lower than what the Sunset's would be for running daily.

 

[lsa]

well do we know if they are going to be staff out of chicago or los angeles(because LA is getting ready to fourlough lot of people for 4 months)

From Gene Poon at All Aboard All Aboard:
The Amtrak Board of Directors has authorized negotiations with Union

Pacific for daily Amtrak service on the Los Angeles-New Orleans Sunset

Route.

source: Robert Manning

Director, Rail Passenger Association of California

President, Southwest Rail Passenger Association

 

[henryj]

GML for once on here I agree with you. Alan is acting like a kid that has had his toys taken away and is pouting in the corner. I look at this as the first positive thing Amtrak has done for this route in decades. It may not be perfect or exactly what we want but it is progress finally. Daily service. I am estatic. We have next to nothing from Amtrak down here in Texas. This is a great leap forward for us. Lets get behind it and make it work. If it needs tweaking and improving in the future we can do that. Quit the bickering and sour grapes. I want this. Texas needs this. I just have my fingers crossed waiting to see if it really comes to pass. I plan to be at the depot to greet the first train. I am already planning a trip to New Orleans and San Antonio to sample the new service. Next summer I am going to the Garden Railway convention in Tacoma. Now I may have daily service to pick from when I make my reservations. Fantastic.

Henry,

Frankly I expected better from you than this.

The Sunset Limited means nothing to me. I care that my numbers show that a Daily Sunset Limited would do so much better than this proposed plan.

And I don't want it with the risk that the loss of the sleepers means that revenue dips even lower and Amtrak one day turns to Texas and says "pay up or loose the service."

Alan: I don't see where Amtrak is rushing into this, since the concept was developed by the 2009 RPI team, which began work on the Sunset/Eagle in early 2009 and involved every department in the company to analyze and examine all the alternatives. Daily is always much better than three days per week.

Alan the more I read from you the more convinced I am that you are just another one of those disgruntled Floridaites that have tried to torpedo anything and everything other than their precious one seat ride to LAX. I don't know why they seem to think that is their priveledge as no other population center in the East has a one seat ride to LAX. Much more important places than JAX, such as NY, Wash. DC, Philly, Atlanta, even St Loius all have to change trains to get to LAX. Then you want Amtrak to study this thing to death and of course furnish you personally with copies of the study so you can pass judgement. I believe your statement above "The Sunset Limited means nothing to me". It means a lot to those of us suffering down here with the bare bones that Amtrak throws at us. So these proposed changes are a breath of fresh air for Texas. This is a Godsend for us.

 

[haolerider]

GML for once on here I agree with you. Alan is acting like a kid that has had his toys taken away and is pouting in the corner. I look at this as the first positive thing Amtrak has done for this route in decades. It may not be perfect or exactly what we want but it is progress finally. Daily service. I am estatic. We have next to nothing from Amtrak down here in Texas. This is a great leap forward for us. Lets get behind it and make it work. If it needs tweaking and improving in the future we can do that. Quit the bickering and sour grapes. I want this. Texas needs this. I just have my fingers crossed waiting to see if it really comes to pass. I plan to be at the depot to greet the first train. I am already planning a trip to New Orleans and San Antonio to sample the new service. Next summer I am going to the Garden Railway convention in Tacoma. Now I may have daily service to pick from when I make my reservations. Fantastic.

Henry,

Frankly I expected better from you than this.

The Sunset Limited means nothing to me. I care that my numbers show that a Daily Sunset Limited would do so much better than this proposed plan.

And I don't want it with the risk that the loss of the sleepers means that revenue dips even lower and Amtrak one day turns to Texas and says "pay up or loose the service."

Alan: I don't see where Amtrak is rushing into this, since the concept was developed by the 2009 RPI team, which began work on the Sunset/Eagle in early 2009 and involved every department in the company to analyze and examine all the alternatives. Daily is always much better than three days per week.

Alan the more I read from you the more convinced I am that you are just another one of those disgruntled Floridaites that have tried to torpedo anything and everything other than their precious one seat ride to LAX. I don't know why they seem to think that is their priveledge as no other population center in the East has a one seat ride to LAX. Much more important places than JAX, such as NY, Wash. DC, Philly, Atlanta, even St Loius all have to change trains to get to LAX. Then you want Amtrak to study this thing to death and of course furnish you personally with copies of the study so you can pass judgement. I believe your statement above "The Sunset Limited means nothing to me". It means a lot to those of us suffering down here with the bare bones that Amtrak throws at us. So these proposed changes are a breath of fresh air for Texas. This is a Godsend for us. Screw Florida and all the crying babies over there.

I think you need to check some details. I don't believe Alan is from FL and if you go back and look at the history of his postings and strong participationt on this Forum, you will find your comments are way over the top!

 

[Greg]

GML for once on here I agree with you. Alan is acting like a kid that has had his toys taken away and is pouting in the corner. I look at this as the first positive thing Amtrak has done for this route in decades. It may not be perfect or exactly what we want but it is progress finally. Daily service. I am estatic. We have next to nothing from Amtrak down here in Texas. This is a great leap forward for us. Lets get behind it and make it work. If it needs tweaking and improving in the future we can do that. Quit the bickering and sour grapes. I want this. Texas needs this. I just have my fingers crossed waiting to see if it really comes to pass. I plan to be at the depot to greet the first train. I am already planning a trip to New Orleans and San Antonio to sample the new service. Next summer I am going to the Garden Railway convention in Tacoma. Now I may have daily service to pick from when I make my reservations. Fantastic.

Henry,

Frankly I expected better from you than this.

The Sunset Limited means nothing to me. I care that my numbers show that a Daily Sunset Limited would do so much better than this proposed plan.

And I don't want it with the risk that the loss of the sleepers means that revenue dips even lower and Amtrak one day turns to Texas and says "pay up or loose the service."

Alan: I don't see where Amtrak is rushing into this, since the concept was developed by the 2009 RPI team, which began work on the Sunset/Eagle in early 2009 and involved every department in the company to analyze and examine all the alternatives. Daily is always much better than three days per week.

Alan the more I read from you the more convinced I am that you are just another one of those disgruntled Floridaites that have tried to torpedo anything and everything other than their precious one seat ride to LAX. I don't know why they seem to think that is their priveledge as no other population center in the East has a one seat ride to LAX. Much more important places than JAX, such as NY, Wash. DC, Philly, Atlanta, even St Loius all have to change trains to get to LAX. Then you want Amtrak to study this thing to death and of course furnish you personally with copies of the study so you can pass judgement. I believe your statement above "The Sunset Limited means nothing to me". It means a lot to those of us suffering down here with the bare bones that Amtrak throws at us. So these proposed changes are a breath of fresh air for Texas. This is a Godsend for us. Screw Florida and all the crying babies over there.

As one of the "crying babies" as you refer, I am supportive of increasing frequency, level and quality of service anywhere we can get it in this country. I guess since the Sunset Limited was the only train we ever had from JAX to NOL (besides the Gulf Wind) that seems to be the main one we think about or desire bringing back the most. Some of this dialogue is becoming rather contentious.

 

[Steve4031]

I have observed Alan's posts over the years, and he has consistently provided balanced, objective posts. When he is stating an opinion, he clearly notes where his opinion begins. In fact, I have seen many posts that show evidence supporting daily service over less than daily service. A similar discussion has revolved around the operation of the Cardinal. I think it is unfair to characterize Alan as bitter or pouting. IMHO, it is fine to disagree, but I don't wee the point of attacking people because you disagree with their points of view about Amtrak operations.

GML for once on here I agree with you. Alan is acting like a kid that has had his toys taken away and is pouting in the corner. I look at this as the first positive thing Amtrak has done for this route in decades. It may not be perfect or exactly what we want but it is progress finally. Daily service. I am estatic. We have next to nothing from Amtrak down here in Texas. This is a great leap forward for us. Lets get behind it and make it work. If it needs tweaking and improving in the future we can do that. Quit the bickering and sour grapes. I want this. Texas needs this. I just have my fingers crossed waiting to see if it really comes to pass. I plan to be at the depot to greet the first train. I am already planning a trip to New Orleans and San Antonio to sample the new service. Next summer I am going to the Garden Railway convention in Tacoma. Now I may have daily service to pick from when I make my reservations. Fantastic.

Henry,

Frankly I expected better from you than this.

The Sunset Limited means nothing to me. I care that my numbers show that a Daily Sunset Limited would do so much better than this proposed plan.

And I don't want it with the risk that the loss of the sleepers means that revenue dips even lower and Amtrak one day turns to Texas and says "pay up or loose the service."

Alan: I don't see where Amtrak is rushing into this, since the concept was developed by the 2009 RPI team, which began work on the Sunset/Eagle in early 2009 and involved every department in the company to analyze and examine all the alternatives. Daily is always much better than three days per week.

Alan the more I read from you the more convinced I am that you are just another one of those disgruntled Floridaites that have tried to torpedo anything and everything other than their precious one seat ride to LAX. I don't know why they seem to think that is their priveledge as no other population center in the East has a one seat ride to LAX. Much more important places than JAX, such as NY, Wash. DC, Philly, Atlanta, even St Loius all have to change trains to get to LAX. Then you want Amtrak to study this thing to death and of course furnish you personally with copies of the study so you can pass judgement. I believe your statement above "The Sunset Limited means nothing to me". It means a lot to those of us suffering down here with the bare bones that Amtrak throws at us. So these proposed changes are a breath of fresh air for Texas. This is a Godsend for us. Screw Florida and all the crying babies over there.

 

[BlakeTyner]

I fully admit that I've been highly involved in this topic, but if I may (and I realize I'm a newbie) make a suggestion--maybe we should take a breath and step back for a little bit. Regardless of what the Amtrak board did or didn't do, we know what we don't know:

Will UP even want to come to the table for the slots?

Will the stimulus Superliners be enough for both the Empire Builder and a daily Sunset/Eagle?

Will there be an order for Superliner 3's?

Will there be some public forum announcement of the service?

Until some of those answers start coming in, we're doing nothing but spitballing. Maybe at this point we should adopt a hurry-up-and-wait mentality?

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Alan is from New York City.

 

[AlanB]

Alan the more I read from you the more convinced I am that you are just another one of those disgruntled Floridaites that have tried to torpedo anything and everything other than their precious one seat ride to LAX. I don't know why they seem to think that is their priveledge as no other population center in the East has a one seat ride to LAX. Much more important places than JAX, such as NY, Wash. DC, Philly, Atlanta, even St Loius all have to change trains to get to LAX. Then you want Amtrak to study this thing to death and of course furnish you personally with copies of the study so you can pass judgement. I believe your statement above "The Sunset Limited means nothing to me". It means a lot to those of us suffering down here with the bare bones that Amtrak throws at us. So these proposed changes are a breath of fresh air for Texas. This is a Godsend for us. Screw Florida and all the crying babies over there.

A lovely theory.

If only I was from Florida. But I'm not. I was born and raised in NJ, less then 30 miles from NYC where I have now lived for the past 20 years. And it is for that reason that the Sunset isn't particularly useful to me. I wish it were, but it's not. If I want to go west, it's far easier and faster for me to go through Chicago.

And frankly I don't understand your hostility. I'm not suggesting that Amtrak do nothing. I would never advocate for that. I'm simply advocating that not only is this perhaps not the best plan, but that Amtrak isn't taking the correct approach to ensure that other plans aren't more viable. I'm trying to advocate for even better service, you're taking the sloppy seconds and saying "mm, delicious." If someone from Amtrak wants to step up to the plate and guarantee that this plan will do bettter than what I'm suggesting (a daily, real Sunset Limited), guarantee that Amtrak won't look at Texas in 5 or 10 years and say "pay up" because the stubie isn't making it, then fine I'll be the first to step in line and support this plan.

But I'm not seeing anyone do that. All I see is Amtrak marching along with the current plan without providing any proof or guarantees, or even some studies, that this is the best that they can do. Remember, we're all ownwers of Amtrak, we're entitled to know and see why this is best for us.

I'm sorry if you don't like my advocating for better service than what you currently have and better service than what will be provided if this plan comes to fruition, but I'm going to continue to do what I think is right. And at present based upon everything that I see from the numbers available to me (and I have 6 years worth of Amtrak data at my disposal, I've saved every PDF file since they started doing monthly reports under David Gunn in Jan '04), I think that Amtrak can do better for Texas if they drop this plan, delay for a few more months until Beech Grove rolls out a majority of the wreck repairs and can then create a daily Sunset Limited with sleepers from NOL to LAX.