leemell
Conductor
The cars swaying, the horn, the smell of diesel, that is what we ride the train for!
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Train horns are some of the wonderful aspects of train travel, specially at night. I live close enough that I can hear the Star.Meteor and Auto Train blowing when they parallel US Highway 17. I'll be even closer when service on the FEC begins. The train horns are very comforting.
I think that there are often people who walk out along the causeway to fish off the sides of it, so the engineer ends up blowing the horn quite a bit on a busy day.
I agree. I, too, can hear the Star and Meteor, but I am too far away to hear the Auto Train.
leemell
Conductor
I'm within a half mile of the UP line in the San Fernando Valley and can hear the Coast Starlight, the Pacific Surfliners, Metrolinks and the occasional late night freight.
Laws laws ...regulations...stupid laws.. BECAUSE auto drivers now text and drive!!!! they are too stupid to know that a train doesnt stop because there are red lights at a crossing..! drivers are too stupid now to even notice when the stop lights turn green!! They just leave the intersection..because they are done texting.. i guess... We just beg the government to get involved.. and that is the last thing the country needs!!
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Same people that move out next to a farm to be "in the country" then complain about the smell of the farm animals.If someone does like the sound of the train horn at 2 AM, why did they move near the tracks? Most likely, the tracks (and crossing) were there prior to the people moving in!That's like people who move next to an airport - and then complain about the jet noise!
An apartment complex I am thinking about moving to is directly across the tracks from Portland's Union Station. In reading the reviews of the complex, there was one "Negative" that many people pointed out. That thing is "... the train horns and/or noise ..." at all hours! It seems that before moving in, they may have noticed that big building (that's been there for over 100 years), those traks between the complex and the station and the platforms! Yet, they complain about the train noise! :wacko: So why did they chose to move into that complex? :huh:
I don't get it! :blink: kj m
I was thinking the same thing. When I was 11 we moved to a neighborhood that was sometimes downwind of mushroom farms. We accepted that as part of living in what my mom called "the boonies" (the area had grown quite a bit since the last time they lived in the state so it really wasn't the boonies. In fact it was, and still is 40 years later, one of "the" places to live.Same people that move out next to a farm to be "in the country" then complain about the smell of the farm animals.If someone does like the sound of the train horn at 2 AM, why did they move near the tracks? Most likely, the tracks (and crossing) were there prior to the people moving in!
An apartment complex I am thinking about moving to is directly across the tracks from Portland's Union Station. In reading the reviews of the complex, there was one "Negative" that many people pointed out. That thing is "... the train horns and/or noise ..." at all hours! It seems that before moving in, they may have noticed that big building (that's been there for over 100 years), those traks between the complex and the station and the platforms! Yet, they complain about the train noise! :wacko: So why did they chose to move into that complex? :huh:
I don't get it! :blink: kj m
In the same vein, when we were looking to buy our current home in Michigan, we were given a brochure from the Dept. of Ag that pretty much told us that if we bought where we were thinking of buying... we might smell POOP and see tractors and such.I was thinking the same thing. When I was 11 we moved to a neighborhood that was sometimes downwind of mushroom farms. We accepted that as part of living in what my mom called "the boonies" (the area had grown quite a bit since the last time they lived in the state so it really wasn't the boonies. In fact it was, and still is 40 years later, one of "the" places to live.Same people that move out next to a farm to be "in the country" then complain about the smell of the farm animals.If someone does like the sound of the train horn at 2 AM, why did they move near the tracks? Most likely, the tracks (and crossing) were there prior to the people moving in!
An apartment complex I am thinking about moving to is directly across the tracks from Portland's Union Station. In reading the reviews of the complex, there was one "Negative" that many people pointed out. That thing is "... the train horns and/or noise ..." at all hours! It seems that before moving in, they may have noticed that big building (that's been there for over 100 years), those traks between the complex and the station and the platforms! Yet, they complain about the train noise! :wacko: So why did they chose to move into that complex? :huh:
I don't get it! :blink: kj m
No problem.
I miss hearing the trains in the night when we lived in Cedar Rapids, IA.
Now I know that when the wind is blowing in the right direction, I can go outside and hear my home train, the Pere Marquette, leave.
That, along with the songs of my neighborhood birds is a beautiful way to start the day
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
I moved next to an airport because my job moved next to an airport. Thanks to complaints lodged by those who came before me there are now all sorts of rules and regulations that make living next to our airport much quieter and more enjoyable than it was in the past. Similar initiatives are being used to quiet busy rail corridors as well, which is especially helpful for people who can't afford to live in quieter more affluent areas far away from any major airports or railroad tracks. I never even knew there was a pro-noise movement until I came to AU.
So rather than being actual complaints these were reviews in which people merely warned prospective lessees about the noise in a review?
My bloodlines came from ranching and farming. I found the smells of farms like ours to be quite agreeable, but today's farms are nothing like the farms we remember from our youth or that you see painted in children's books. The excessive crowding of livestock and the lack of proper waste management can create odors on a level far beyond what most people would ever expect to encounter in an otherwise rural setting. But hey, who cares about those crazy people with functional olfactory nerves, right?
kal-tex
Train Attendant
When I hear a train whistle in the distance, it seems to me that it is calling me to take my next trip!
In the rural county I live, our brochure for newcomers includes "warnings" about some aspects of the rural lifestyle, based on actual complaints from newcomers from urban areas. Smell from farm animals is among them. In our area, farms and farming practices, save for updated machinery, have changed very little over the years. Noise from animals is another complaint. I don't know what you do about that. :help:Same people that move out next to a farm to be "in the country" then complain about the smell of the farm animals.If someone does like the sound of the train horn at 2 AM, why did they move near the tracks? Most likely, the tracks (and crossing) were there prior to the people moving in!
An apartment complex I am thinking about moving to is directly across the tracks from Portland's Union Station. In reading the reviews of the complex, thmere was one "Negative" that many people pointed out. That thing is "... the train horns and/or noise ..." at all hours! It seems that before moving in, they may have noticed that big building (that's been there for over 100 years), those traks between the complex and the station and the platforms! Yet, they complain about the train noise! :wacko: So why did they chose to move into that complex? :huh:
I don't get it! :blink: kj m
Other complaints:
Noise and smells from farm implements (even though modern equipment is much better in that regard than in the past)
Long response times for emergency services
Dust
Low - flying aircraft (crop dusters)
Gravel roads as opposed to paved roads
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
You got a nice description there.
I have the same thing, but it's not exactly a big problem for me. I hear like TWO trains coming through each hour.
oldtimer
OBS Chief
Having in my career been on Amtrak trains even in the cab at times when 13 fatal crashes occurred, I wish that the horn was much louder and that the "No-Whistle Zones" were eliminated. It take a terrible toll on the crew when an injury or fatality happens. Amtrak currently offers the crew relief if they feel they cannot proceed after a fatal accident. I gave up counting the grade crossing accidents where there were no injuries. I have seen all kinds of accidents, from pedestrian to loaded semi dump trucks. The first was a fatality the dump truck ended up with 3 minor injuries in the cab of the engine. The two examples cited occurred at 79 mph.
I could tell you railroad stories from now until the next "Super Moon". No whistle zones do not stop grade crossing accidents, I even think that train vs pedestrian accidents increase. Just for the record I grew up within 75 feet of the PRR mainline on the south side of Chicago and currently live in a suburb serviced by Metra within 1/4 mile of a station and the horn is music to my ears.
I could tell you railroad stories from now until the next "Super Moon". No whistle zones do not stop grade crossing accidents, I even think that train vs pedestrian accidents increase. Just for the record I grew up within 75 feet of the PRR mainline on the south side of Chicago and currently live in a suburb serviced by Metra within 1/4 mile of a station and the horn is music to my ears.
Sounds like the answer is grade crossing separation, not louder horns.
I live in downtown Chicago, where we quite possibly have the loudest fire truck sirens/horns in the country. Despite this, people still act like the don't know what to do when they hear an emergency siren coming at them. I don't know what their decibel level is, but I have to plug my ears when they go by to protect my hearing. You can hear the siren from blocks away, but all that does is train drivers to ignore it until it's right on their ass because you can't tell if it's on your street coming at you, or two blocks over.
As for grade-crossing collisions, how many of them would really be avoided by louder horns? When someone's racing around the gates trying to beat the train, it isn't the loudness (or quietness) of the horn that's the factor, it's the (perceived) time savings that they will get by not having to wait for the train.
Even in quiet zones, the crossing gates have bells on them which alert people. Some even have smaller whistles attached to the gates themselves that blow when the train approaches, so the train doesn't have to use its whistle. I've never been at such a gate when a train has passed, so I don't know how they sound. However, I'd be in favor of some kind of advanced technology at the gates that makes the whistle sound louder as the train gets closer. Engineers are still allowed to blow their whistle, under any circumstance, if they feel that there is some safety-justified reason to do so. But that still requires the pedestrian to have their head out of their anal cavity, and not having a cell phone on one ear while plugging the other (to tune out the loud noise of the train coming by), or kids with really loud iPods and earphones, etc.
Trucks getting stuck on crossings because their trailer is too low...can't really help that with a horn (unless it's of just the right frequency to resonate with the trailer and the rails and allow the trailer to levitate just enough to...okay, not likely to happen). Then there are those who cross the tracks but can't clear due to traffic in front of them. That's just plain stupidity. Sometimes there's an intersection immediately after the crossing, and the traffic lights have not been programmed to link up with the crossing gates. Again, doesn't excuse poor driving habits (entering a crossing without being able to clear), but there are changes that can be done to mitigate that problem (like all directions changing to flashing red, except for the direction that's trying to clear the crossing, which gets a green so they can get the hell out of there).
Point being, with as loud as train horns are, people really have to try to not hear them, and the answer to that isn't louder horns, it's fixing the real problems (as varied and numerous as they are), because making louder horns will only drive more people to demand quiet zones (which you're not going to get rid of, no matter how much you wish), and make others find more ways to tune them out (which we're still not going to avoid).
At some point, doing something in the name of increased safety becomes counterproductive as people look for ways around it.
cirdan
Engineer
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You mean expect the governemnt to sort it out as long as that involves the government telling somebody else what to do, but cry murder when the government tells you what to do?
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George Harris
Engineer
There is and it is not advanced. It is called reduced distance.
The whole thing is that it is impractical to grade separate everything, so you do what you can, and that is blow the horn. As had been said here already: the railroad has been there, and for most if not all of us, since long before we were born, so to be near a railroad and complain about horn noise is in the same range of stupidity as ignoring railroad crossings, and particularly deliberately trying to beat a train at a crossing.
Unfortunately, as much as we might like to do so, there is no way to outlaw stupidity. About all that can be done is to try to reduce the amount of hurt one person's stupidity does to the innocent and uninvolved.
What brought on this rant? I am as much against unnecessary regulation as anybody, but there are some things that really cannot be done by anyone other than governments. Food and water safety being outstanding examples. Standards for road design are another one, and that primarily for the sake of consistency so that you know such things as that signage and traffic signals and road marking will be the same or very similar regarless of where you are in the country. I consider horn rules that define loudness, etc., another where defined standards for the sake of comsistency is very important. Look back up the thread and you will see that the Federal regulation has simply codified the usual method of horn blowing and provided a standard range of loudness.
Bierboy
OBS Chief
I'm also in this club....it's magic!
BTW, I used to live in Galesburg, Ill., about a half block from the Santa Fe tracks and about a quarter mile from the CBQ (now BN) tracks.
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Shortline
Conductor
I respectfully disagree at least to a portion of your premise-While I will certainly concede that whislte zones do NOT stop grade crossinng incidents, they certainly also don't decrease safety-in fact, I propose an INCREASE in the number of quiet zones would have an overall positive impact on grade crossing safety. (disclaimer-I am not speaking on behalf of any railroad or rail safety organization....The opinion here is simply my own) As it is, the FRA studies have shown no DECREASE in safety: "Individual tests demonstrate that among each of the groups there was no statistical significance that would indicate that the observed locations were less safe because of the establishment of the Quiet Zone and therefore the null hypothesis cannot be rejected." (Reference 2011 TTI Conference presentation on Quiet Zone-Study FRA presentation) I also believe quiet zones would positively increase safety for the crew, with regards to hearing loss, which, continues to be a huge issue.
However, I hypothesize that many crossings would be improved by including them in a Quiet Zone, through an upgrade from passive warning devices (crossbucks) to an active system that is approved under a quiet zone application. By using the quiet zones as a catalyst, I think many more municipalities would be open to spending the money to upgrade the warning systems-ergo, more quiet zones, potentially fewer collisions through more improved active warning systems. Many Railroads actively oppose quiet zones-I frankly belive the reason has much less due to safety concerns, and more to do with financial-Quiet zones cost more to engineer, install, and maintain. That is a cost the RR's typically have to eat, and is a very large portion of annual operating costs. Also, there is the liability issue when a person chooses to ignore the active warnings, and is hit-since the technology is new, many lawyers will, with nothing else to go on, key on that, and claim "if only the horn had been blowing, like my clients deceased family member is used to, he would still be alive".
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Ozark Southern
Lead Service Attendant
As I'm reading this, I'm hearing a BNSF freight crossing through town, and the engineer is indeed blowing the correct sequence. They do it at all hours of the night, and as our house is about 4 blocks from the tracks, we can always hear it even indoors. I concur with others, though, that if the trains are a problem, don't live near the tracks. Personally, I'd much rather have train noise than highway noise (lived for about a year and a half in an apartment adjacent to a six-lane highway, and that was so much worse).
amtrakwolverine
Engineer
Don't get me wrong I picked this trailer cause its next to the tracks. They didn't always lay on the horn like there was no tomorrow and some engineers will lightly tap it at night as to not disturbed people. I don't see why you need to lay on the horn for 1 mile. Maybe cause its a trailer park there afraid some kid or someone is going to run onto the tracks to chase after a ball and not notice the train coming. there's a old man who walks his dog along the tracks every day and he walks with a stick also.
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George Harris
Engineer
Call me a skeptic. I would love to see the data behind this conclusion. It may or may not be valid. You can prove almost anything you want by careful data selection.
Shortline
Conductor
There has been increased emphasis placed on proper horn blowing at crossings by the FRA, and subsequently, the RR's to ensure their engineers are in compliance. It used to be somewhat common, for an engineer to "lightly tap it at night", but those days are over-The Railroad faces fines for their non-compliance, and have therefore stepped up enforcement by testing their crews, and documenting failures to blow the proper signal, for the proper length of time. The FRA has also stepped up enforcement, and while rare, can issue a violation to the engineer of $5000 for a violation for not blowing between 15 and 20 seconds, and $7500 if that violation is deemed "willful". Engineers also are being sued following a grade crossing incident, and can be held liable for wrongful death if they were found to be not blowing appropriatey. An engineer who chooses to not blow as required, is taking a really big chance at a personal financial catastrophy. I assure you it has nothing to do with it being a trailer park per se.
Edit to add-That violation can also be issued, if the horn blowing is excessive-i.e. can be violated for blowing less than 15 seconds prior to the crossing, and can be violated for blowing MORE THAN 25 seconds prior to the crossing, though for obvious reasons, the fine for blowing more than prescribed is less than for blowing it less than prescribed. ($5000-$7500 for not long enough, $1000-$2000 for blowing it too long)
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Shortline
Conductor
Here's where I got that quote, and the FRA presentation it came from. I agree with you, statistics are what you want them to be sometimes, but, from my experience, I do not believe a quiet zone crossing is more dangerous than a regular signaled/lighted crossing.
Statistics presentation
It's all here, but you gotta do the legwork....
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I can see where a quiet zone crossing could be safer than a normal one, but would this not be due to the stricter requirements for signaling, gating, extended medians, and so forth? The crossings in quiet zones that I have seen have quad crossing gates that close off the entire crossing from both directions, making it difficult for some fool to drive around them. I'm sure there are other improvements too. This is also one of the reasons there aren't more of them, it costs more to do this as opposed to having just a light or a conventional gate (or worse just a painted crossbuck).
Of course, when I'm on the train I prefer the frontmost sleeper, there's just something soothing about laying in bed hearing the engineer sounding Q on the horn.
Of course, when I'm on the train I prefer the frontmost sleeper, there's just something soothing about laying in bed hearing the engineer sounding Q on the horn.
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