MattW
Conductor
Folks, it's that time again, operating off a tip elsewhere, and confirming via Amsnag, the Crescent will be truncated to Atlanta from New York Monday through Thursday looks like January 6 through February 6.
Yearly Crescent trackwork truncation to Atlanta 2014
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The Davy Crockett
Engineer
henryj
Conductor
This is the key phrase: "Alternate transportation will not be provided". In other words the Crescent south of Atlanta is irrelevant.
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Nathanael
Guest
It pretty much is. I looked into this...
First, it's a *lot* slower than driving.
On the NEC, of course, the Crescent is faster than driving; and from Washington DC to Greensboro NC the Crescent is only a little slower than driving (5:45 vs. 4:45). From Greensboro to Atlanta it's substantially worse (7:34 vs. 4:55) but it has the benefit of overnight running, and of course it's mostly through trips headed north of Greensboro.
But south of Atlanta, it's *much* worse. Atlanta to New Orleans is 11:30 vs. 6:38 driving.
By way of contrast, Syracuse to Chicago on the LSL is 13:10 on Amtrak vs. 10:10 driving, *much* more competitive especially since you really can't drive 10:10 in one stretch. There's so much more potential in a route with decent speed.
Second, the population is thinner south of Atlanta. This combined with the slow running means that Amtrak has already complained in the PIP about the train being pretty full north of Atlanta but half-empty south of Atlanta, and suggested cut-off cars at Atlanta.
Third, the people travelling south of Atlanta are mostly travelling for pleasure (they have to be because it's so slow) and so they're mostly going on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Hence the cancellation of Monday-Thursday service.
Fourth, January and February are the two weakesst-ridership months for Amtrak overall, so these are the right months to do it.
The fact is that these trackwork cancellations probably improve Amtrak's bottom line.
If the train were faster it would be different. However, the current trend is that North Carolina and Virginia are going to spend money to make the train faster, while Georgia, Mississippi, and Louisiana aren't, so I don't expect this situation to change any time soon!
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Nathanael
Guest
This is a good idea.
It is no coincidence that in the 1970s Southern operated the Southern Crescent to/from New Orleans only three days a week. They knew. Both Southern and Amtrak tried to stimulate ridership between Atlanta and New Orleans by offering rock-bottom fares, without success.
The combination of almost-constant curvature and heavy freight traffic on a single-track line limits the train to 4+ hours between Atlanta and Birmingham. It can be driven in 2+. Running the train through Birmingham instead of direct Atlanta-Montgomery-Mobile-NOL adds another hour of unfavorability compared to drive time, although running a train Atl-Mtgy-Mobile-NOL would be even slower than via Birmingham. There is also a good bit of schedule pad in Amtrak's timetable.
Running a shorter train south of Atlanta makes sense if the switching is operationally feasible and the expenses of switching are less than the expenses of running mostly-empty cars another 900 miles round-trip. This has see-sawed over the years.
Prior to the 1950s, New Orleans was the most important city in the southeast and Atlanta was the second-most important. Times have changed but the train's routing has not. Atlanta-Dallas instead of Atlanta-NOL would make much more sense these days.
The combination of almost-constant curvature and heavy freight traffic on a single-track line limits the train to 4+ hours between Atlanta and Birmingham. It can be driven in 2+. Running the train through Birmingham instead of direct Atlanta-Montgomery-Mobile-NOL adds another hour of unfavorability compared to drive time, although running a train Atl-Mtgy-Mobile-NOL would be even slower than via Birmingham. There is also a good bit of schedule pad in Amtrak's timetable.
Running a shorter train south of Atlanta makes sense if the switching is operationally feasible and the expenses of switching are less than the expenses of running mostly-empty cars another 900 miles round-trip. This has see-sawed over the years.
Prior to the 1950s, New Orleans was the most important city in the southeast and Atlanta was the second-most important. Times have changed but the train's routing has not. Atlanta-Dallas instead of Atlanta-NOL would make much more sense these days.
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Nathanael
Guest
Oh, that's a pity. I was kind of hoping that that route was good for higher speed, at least geometrically.
Trouble is, from what you tell me, there's no good route west of Atlanta, period. Montgomery and Birmingham are the two choices. Sure, it's possible to run nice fast trains from Dallas to Shreveport to Jackson to Meridian, but it sounds like Meridian to Atlanta would require an entirely new-build route in order to make decent time. And fat chance of that happening in Mississippi and Georgia.
Notelvis
Conductor
Another Crescent issue is that there is no place to switch extra cars in or out at the Atlanta Peachtree Station without blocking the NS mainline for the duration.
A compromise might be Birmingham though...... last time I was in Birmingham they still had a couple of tracks which were off the mainline in place.
A compromise might be Birmingham though...... last time I was in Birmingham they still had a couple of tracks which were off the mainline in place.
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Will
Guest
This thread seems to imply this is a yearly occurrence.
I am planning on taking the Crescent from New York to New Orleans on Wednesday, January 7th, 2015. Is there reason to believe this might not be possible?
While I understand track work sometimes needs to be done, I would hate to have my train cancelled only one month in advance, forcing me to buy a more expensive last-minute flight instead.
Thanks for your insights.
I am planning on taking the Crescent from New York to New Orleans on Wednesday, January 7th, 2015. Is there reason to believe this might not be possible?
While I understand track work sometimes needs to be done, I would hate to have my train cancelled only one month in advance, forcing me to buy a more expensive last-minute flight instead.
Thanks for your insights.
cirdan
Engineer
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depends what the consist and staff are doing. If they're just sitting in Atlanta waiting for time, they're essentially accumulating costs without generating any revenue. If Amtrak is able to re-deploy the crews on other routes, or putting them on vacation, there may be genuine savings.The fact is that these trackwork cancellations probably improve Amtrak's bottom line.
cirdan
Engineer
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Random question here. But hasn't NS been given a whole load of TIGER funds to upgrade the Crescent corridor? I know that this isn't the same as the route of Amtrak's Crescent, but maybe that might be a faster route to New Orleans. Seeing its taxpayer money that is improving the tracks, NS can't really say Amtrak can't touch them.
The Crew could do the Turn in ATL from #19 which Gets there in the AM and Leave on #20 for NYP in the Evening! Since they Don't get Paid Unless they are on a Train ,and Benefit Costs are Fixed, the Only Extra Expense would be to have Contracted Day Rates @ a Hotel and a Shuttle Service for the Crew like they Do here in Austin for the Engineers (and Used to be the Diner Crew Also) that make a Same Day Turn!! This would be Cheaper than Paying them to Run to NOL, Layover and Return to NYP the Next Day!! Whether or Not the Union would Agree is Problematica??!!!!depends what the consist and staff are doing. If they're just sitting in Atlanta waiting for time, they're essentially accumulating costs without generating any revenue. If Amtrak is able to re-deploy the crews on other routes, or putting them on vacation, there may be genuine savings.The fact is that these trackwork cancellations probably improve Amtrak's bottom line.
The NS tracks from Atlanta to New Orleans are part of their Crescent Corridor route. The Crescent Corridor is the subject of a $2.5 billion improvement program with some of that money coming from the feds and states. The question is whether the Atlanta to New Orleans segment is slated to get upgrades that will allow the Crescent train trip times to improve south of Atlanta. Not by a lot I would expect, however.
The NS tracks north of Atlanta will see trip time and reliability improvements in the next 3-4 years with the Piedmont corridor Greensboro to Charlotte upgrades and VA paying for a double tracking project and likely other upgrades between Manassas and Lynchburg for the Lynchhburg-Roanoke Regionals.
The NS Crescent Corridor map is below for those not familiar with it. If Virginia pays for passenger service upgrades to Roanoke and then Bristol, VA, the map shows the possibilities for a NYP to Memphis train if TN was someday interested in helping to fund it.
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Nathanael
Guest
It actually is largely the same route. (Plus the second more northerly route as shown on the map.) However, there aren't any significant track upgrades planned south of Atlanta so far.
The TIGER II grant is for truck-to-train terminal facilities in Birmingham and Memphis:
http://www.efl.fhwa.dot.gov/projects/crescent-corridor.aspx
Note carefully those locations: Birmingham and Memphis. This is going to increase rail traffic north of Birmingham, and possibly north of Meridian, but not south of there. I've heard of "Crescent Corridor" related track upgrades in Virginia and North Carolina, but not south of Birmingham....
If you look at this presentation, you'll see that NS has no plans to upgrade the south end of the corridor from Meridian to New Orleans:
http://www.dot.ga.gov/aboutGeorgiadot/Board/Documents/2010Presentations/April/3-GDOT%20CrescentCorridor.pdf
The track upgrades are proceeding from north to south, and NS has no motivation to upgrade south of Meridian.
This includes a 2010 summary of planned work, starting on page 13:
http://www.thefutureneedsus.com/images/uploads/cc-book_1.pdf
A lot of new intermodal terminals, a lot of "replace rail and crossties". But the track upgrades are biased very much north of Atlanta. There's one passing siding in Mississippi (north/east of Meridian), and some speed improvements in Alabama (probably both done by now), contrasted with *four* passing sidings and a *lot* of speed improvements in Virginia. The main Mississippi improvement was simply connecting the KCS track to the NS track at Meridian.
So not only are the passenger-focused rail improvements north of Atlanta (North Carolina is doing a bunch and so is Virginia), but the freight-focused rail improvements on the same route are *also* mostly north of Atlanta.
haolerider
Conductor
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Actually they can't operate while the work is being done. NS crews work extra hours to get the work finished and it is NS that determines when this track upgrade work will be scheduled, so while Amtrak could put an alert in the timetable or online, they generally have to wait for NS to set the final dates.
I am a newbie here. What does truncated mean? I have purchased tickets to go on Crescent from NOL to Newark January 27,2014. What will this mean for me. A possible cancellation???
Unfortunately Yes!,
According to the Posted Dates for Trackwork between Atlanta and New orleans, the Crescent will NOT Run from NOL-ATL or ATL-NOL. It will only Operate Between Atlanta and New York with No Alternate Transportation between New Orleans and Atlanta Mondays to Fridays! (IOW you're on your Own to get to Atlanta! :angry: )If your Travel Dates are Flexible, You Can Travel on Friday, Saturdays or Sundays during this trackwork #19 and #20 will Run the Whole Route between New York and New Orleans! Call Amtrak if you Need to Change your dates or receive a refund which You will be 100% Elgible for Since Amtrak is cancelling the Trains on these Dates! (Or a Travel Voucher for Later Travel if desired!)
Thanks. Just called Amtrak and the operator waited on the phone with me while my husband and I discussed which date to change to . We are leaving on Friday instead. Will that mean we will possibly not be arriving on time to Newark. I hope this will be a positive experience for us. That's why I like dealing with Amtrak operators they are all so nice. Also if not for this forum I wouldn't know what to do. Thanks to you all.
Glad you got Good Service, Most of My Experience with Amtrak Phone Agents over the Years has been Positive! You may still have some Slow Orders between NOL and ATL but once the Crescent Reaches Washington on the NEC it can Make Up time and Run Alot Faster since it is Discharge Only @ the Station Stops between WAS and NYP! Baring a Major Happening you Shouldn't be too Late to your Destination! Enjoy the Ride Up the Old Southern Line!!!(Well, whats' Left of It!!) 
fairviewroad
Engineer
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There is always the possibility that you will not arrive "on time" when you board an Amtrak long-distance train. But now that you're traveling on one of the dates not affected by the cancellations, you should be fine. The trackwork could cause delays, but there is ample time to "make it up" before you get all the way to Newark. Don't plan anything based on a precise arrival time in Newark, but there's a decent enough chance that you'll get there reasonably close to it (let's say within an hour or so). But again, you never know (the same is true for flying, of course).
battalion51
Engineer
These types of curfew blitzes are typically the best way to safely and quickly accomplish things, and its not just NS that does this. UP does this pretty regularly with the Coast Starlight, Texas Eagle, and Lincoln Service. CSX did this just last month with Silver Service and the Carolinian. SunRail seems to be doing the same with Silver Service, and occasionally Auto Train. Sometimes these shut downs turn into something coveted such as a detour. I think there is even a thread going right now about when UP will be detouring the Starlight through the inland route so reservations can be made! In most cases it isn't ideal to have the train shut down, but at least in the case of this work with NS they're doing it during off-peak travel months on off-peak days.
Glad we got this taken care of. The next best thing would be if the Saints went to Superbowl and we would be right down the road at my daughters house.lol
If that Happens (I like the Saints too but I wonder about the Defense???) be sure and take your Winter Gear, it gets Darn Cold in the Meadowlands in Feb.!Glad we got this taken care of. The next best thing would be if the Saints went to Superbowl and we would be right down the road at my daughters house.lol
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