In the countries where this is done, the trains run within minutes of schedule pretty much all the time. And food can be ordered to be picked up from pretty much any station along the route. It's just not the same environment, and I can't see any possible application to Amtrak as long as Amtrak doesn't control its own on-time performance.
Is this any different from any other business re-engineering its business model / method of operation? I would expect the answer would be a one-time: buy out the contracts, and move on. But one would hope that in the end the personnel left would be those necessary and appropriate for the tasks at hand. ... not dragging a dining car around will save some money, but no longer having to pay the associated staff would also be part of the savings [also eliminating the food stuffs infrastructure and operating costs.]
Too much holistic thinking or something.There have been comments above per the increased ridership... if that continues, either the consists will have to become longer (limited by platform lengths), or trains more frequent. ... Did the trains of Fred Harvey's era have better OTP (suspect not)... or were they able to find and implement solutions? And they had the worse situation of not knowing what people wanted, until they sat down to order... and from all accounts, they made a pretty excellent job it.
W/re the latter point: some forums (fori ??) embrace thread drift as part of the ecology; others are more static in their view... if the view of the overseers is that this should become a new thread, so be it; otherwise, let the discussion continue - personally I think it's a worthwhile one, and probably important to Amtrak's future... something has to be done - clearly the current "answers" aren't.
As one that would rather let the conversation go where it might (conversations are dynamic entities; not answers to college exams)... I personally would rather listen to people with worthwhile things to say and to read their insights. ... let's see if the mods chop and move this.Sorry, I'm a master of causing topics to drift.
Too late, they've already done that. The latest menu change was the final straw for me. A few years ago, meals in the dining car were something I looked forward to. Now, they're something I could care less about. A few years ago, I would have said that if Amtrak started charging sleeping car pax for dining car meals, I'd stop traveling Amtrak. Now, quality and selection has gotten so bad that I seriously consider a microwaved pizza in the cafe car, even though it would cost me money. I think Amtrak's current plan is to strip all the amenities, selections, and quality from dining car meals, so that when they finally decide to charge for meals, hardly anyone will care anymore.
There are severe mechanical issues with the PPCs as I recall, making them incredibly expensive to operate.
If Union contracts were that easy to buy out many issues at Amtrak could be fixed. Also remember that a significant proportion of Amtrak middle managers, who have to push for such for it to happen themselves maintain their union memberships, just in case. It is notoriously difficult to change such contracts. The whole food service issue on the Empire Corridor got entangled in this sort of a thing and an out of the box idea for restoring food service between Albany and New York died an early death upon the failure to negotiate an appropriate buyout settlement with the Union(s) involved.
agree. let's not forget they are charging for meals in the sleeper fare. have been reading through some old "trains" magzines from the 50's and 60's and what amtrak is doing sure looks like what a lot of the roads were doing in those days to downgrade and get rid of passenger service
"incredibly expensive"? can't believe we would still have them if that were the case
We kind of don't, they break down a LOT. I've taken two trips on the Coast Starlight without seeing one -- due to breakdowns.
Thinking of the "taco lady" in SAS (??)... wondering if it might not be possible for a "passenger" to take the food orders (as an outside service), and arrange to have the meals delivered at least to the platform of an upcoming station, or maybe even delivered onto the train? ... sometimes one just had to think outside of the box ;-) ... yes I would imagine Amtrak would scream bloody murder... a passenger with a legit ticket, boards the train, takes the orders (or, offers an informal service to fellow passengers - this is where the taco lady thought comes in), radios (today: called cell phone) them in and gets off at the next stop; and another passenger with a legit ticket, gets on the train at that next stop, with 40 meals (40 of the exactly right meals), and only stays on the train 'til the next stop and gets off. For the CZ eastbound, something like: order taker gets on at Reno and off at Winnemucca, the food deliverer on at Winnemucca and off at Elko; or on at Winter Park; off at Denver; food on at Denver, and carrier off at Ft Morgan... or going the other way: on at Grand Junction, off at Green River; on at Green River and off at Helper... etc etc. Or, maybe one makes use of the already planned "smoking break" stops, and one simply contracts restaurants in those cities to have customer ordered meals on the platform, or as close to the platform as Amtrak will allow - simply publish numbers of restaurants willing to participate - not as convenient as having meals at nominal meal times; but would allow one to work within the existing system, ie, have a cell phone? Call this number and place your order... if you want to see the menu, this is the URL etc etc. ... but as DPR alludes to above: this last time on the CZ in May, has me now not interested in the dining car anymore - the latest changes were that step too far. ... will have to see what's possible in a couple weeks when I'm back on the CZ.If Union contracts were that easy to buy out many issues at Amtrak could be fixed. Also remember that a significant proportion of Amtrak middle managers, who have to push for such for it to happen themselves maintain their union memberships, just in case. It is notoriously difficult to change such contracts. The whole food service issue on the Empire Corridor got entangled in this sort of a thing and an out of the box idea for restoring food service between Albany and New York died an early death upon the failure to negotiate an appropriate buyout settlement with the Union(s) involved.
Other than that the idea is brilliant. My understanding of the situation suggests that for several reasons it just ain't gonna work in the current context. But that of is but a minor detail that may or may not bother the proposers of new ideas that much.
In addition to what Neroden said, they were the also the pet project of Brian Rosenwald who was until recently in charge of the Western long distance trains as I recall.
Most taking room fees at wineries are $10 - $15 that is without any cheese and crackers. So $7.50 is a bargain.
the late, lamented brian rosenwald who, as i understand it, was forced out by boardman. at least among amtrak travelers i know the ppc is a big drawing card for the cs and amtrak generally as were other rosenwald inspired amentities. i read somewhere that mr rosenwald is trying to launch some non-amtrak passenger rail scheme. good luck to him
