Winter Storm 2024 cancellations

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AmtrakBlue said:
How many of these cancellations are Amtrak’s decision and how many are the host railroads decision (not counting the Acelas).
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Hard to tell but Acelas are all in Amtrak's domain and they are the revenue backbone of Amtrak. We are looking at 2-4 inches tomorrow and the temps are in teens and twenties. Typical January weather.
 
Bonser said:
Hard to tell but Acelas are all in Amtrak's domain and they are the revenue backbone of Amtrak. We are looking at 2-4 inches tomorrow and the temps are in teens and twenties. Typical January weather.
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I suspect the Acela cancellations have less to do with the weather and more to do with the equipment. Several have recently had their pantographs snag the wires causing delays on the corridor. It may be that the sets that are cancelled are being looked at by maintenance to see if there are others that need fixing.
 
The situation is frustrating for any of us that are rail advocates and certainly warrants asking questions to Amtrak, BNSF, and state officials at IDOT and MDOT that manage midwestern services why we are where we are. We are all inevitably going to speculate on what the issues are - I certainly have, but I think it’s also important to be cautious about where that leads. I think it’s best to not to let frustration lead to overreaction. Obviously some of us need to have our Chance to vent but some of the venting on various places has gone as far as essentially implying it’s time to defund Amtrak if they can’t run as all weather transportation - this is kind of an overreaction. I think the best attitude if we can get the conversation to happen is to ask why are we where we are and what could be done differently to improve the situation in the future so we don’t have service meltdowns. Is there anything rail advocates can argue for that would improve this. The battle is trying to get the attention of policy makers on these issues vs some of the more hot button issues out there to get these conversations to occur - both at the state and federal level. We also have to have realism - the days of the Santa Fe aren’t coming back - but things can probably be better than they are. We do need to be willing to listen to what the issues and challenges are today if there is a chance to ask questions.
 
AmtrakBlue said:
I suspect the Acela cancellations have less to do with the weather and more to do with the equipment. Several have recently had their pantographs snag the wires causing delays on the corridor. It may be that the sets that are cancelled are being looked at by maintenance to see if there are others that need fixing.
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You may be correct. The AX-1s are tired with a lack of spare parts being available. A check of today's reservations shows all remaining trains that are operating have seats available except all business class seats are sold out. Maybe business class refugees from the cancelled Acelas?

Not to let Amtrak off the hook. Amtrak not disclosing reason for all system wide cancellations has no excuse. Of course Amtrak does not want to air its shortcomings. Time for congress to make Amtrak transparent. All this secrecy has no reason except to cover up its incompetence.
 
It's certainly disheartening to see trains being less able to operate in winter conditions, as the decades go by. Society should be progressing forwards, not backwards, with basic infrastructure, which is what train systems are!
Funding, staffing, training, equipment, whatever the issues are, it's a poor solution to simply cancel everything. There are going to be extreme weather events, I think we are being conditioned to accept every snowfall as an extreme event. Trains should be able to operate in many circumstances where air traffic is grounded.
 
Michigan Mom said:
It's certainly disheartening to see trains being less able to operate in winter conditions, as the decades go by. Society should be progressing forwards, not backwards, with basic infrastructure, which is what train systems are!
Funding, staffing, training, equipment, whatever the issues are, it's a poor solution to simply cancel everything. There are going to be extreme weather events, I think we are being conditioned to accept every snowfall as an extreme event. Trains should be able to operate in many circumstances where air traffic is grounded.
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In addition to the operational issues, I think there's other modern factors that make Amtrak and the class 1s more timid to send trains out in certain circumstances. One is the fact that we are far more litigious opening the operators up to lawsuits and the fact that everyone on board has a smart phone and is going to inevitably post on social media when they got stuck out in the middle of nowhere "and are being held hostage." This then inevitably leads to embarrassing negative media coverage that sometimes always doesn't have the facts straight. It's a headache that I'm sure some voices in management are keen to avoid.
 
Michigan Mom said:
It's certainly disheartening to see trains being less able to operate in winter conditions, as the decades go by. Society should be progressing forwards, not backwards, with basic infrastructure, which is what train systems are!
Funding, staffing, training, equipment, whatever the issues are, it's a poor solution to simply cancel everything. There are going to be extreme weather events, I think we are being conditioned to accept every snowfall as an extreme event. Trains should be able to operate in many circumstances where air traffic is grounded.
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You're not wrong at all and I also wonder how much things like liability and staffing issues factor into the decisions. Both were far less of a consideration "back in the day". I'm not sure the aging equipment argument holds up since the heritage railways operated some pretty old and poorly maintained equipment then - especially in the East. However there were a lot more staff to go out and set fires next to switches, etc., and far less concern about their well-being and the safety of passengers (who might sue). Except in extreme areas, few people over 50 can remember a "snow day" affecting school or work but now they're almost a weekly event.
 
lordsigma said:
In addition to the operational issues, I think there's other modern factors that make Amtrak and the class 1s more timid to send trains out in certain circumstances. One is the fact that we are far more litigious opening the operators up to lawsuits and the fact that everyone on board has a smart phone and is going to inevitably post on social media when they got stuck out in the middle of nowhere "and are being held hostage." This then inevitably leads to embarrassing negative media coverage that sometimes always doesn't have the facts straight. It's a headache that I'm sure some voices in management are keen to avoid.
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Apologies for posting much the same thing. I was typing as your observation appeared.
 
It's too bad the "I'm being held hostage" stories seem to get lots more attention than the "Amtrak got me home when nothing else was moving" stories, when in fact I think a lot more people had the latter experience over the decades. That said, there seem to have been quite a few stranded-train incidents in bad weather the past few years, some of which were handled poorly by Amtrak. I am thinking in particular of one incident with a Wolverine train that was highlighted by RPA. One would hope the criticism in these cases would prompt changes to minimize problems in the future, but it probably also makes management more willing to just cancel trains when the conditions are bad.
 
fdaley said:
It's too bad the "I'm being held hostage" stories seem to get lots more attention than the "Amtrak got me home when nothing else was moving" stories, when in fact I think a lot more people had the latter experience over the decades. That said, there seem to have been quite a few stranded-train incidents in bad weather the past few years, some of which were handled poorly by Amtrak. I am thinking in particular of one incident with a Wolverine train that was highlighted by RPA. One would hope the criticism in these cases would prompt changes to minimize problems in the future, but it probably also makes management more willing to just cancel trains when the conditions are bad.
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You're right it's a catch 22. Obviously the technology and transparency has its benefits in highlighting cases when Amtrak doesn't handle it will. But sometimes the media doesn't get it right when Amtrak does the best they can in other situations. The impression the reader gets will be the same either way.
 
Jsandrews1 said:
Empire Builder is paying the price big time..... Such a shame, Amtrak wants money and has a meltdown when they should be able to run, maybe each way every other day atleast, but no, cancel both ways entirely
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There is more to this then simple cancellations. Positioning of crews and train sets and then operating on
host railroad tracks that may NOT be fully weather maintained perhaps even with stalled/disabled freight
traffic. Even with clear tracks slight snow drifting may required the contracting for a host railroad locomotive to pull the Amtrak train through the tight spots.
We don't have the opportunity to see the dispatchers board with the train movements to judge the merits
of decisions made to safely move passengers and freights through to the finish destination.
Monday morning quarterbacking may result in bad calls about any train operation - but lets suffer a bit
of inconvenience safely to arrive a day late instead of harrowing frozen nightmares.
Airlines don't fare well on the ground but they sure can fly over it - the situation is much the same with
crew aircraft positioning scheduling the equipment to service the planes to weather the storm -
then there is the time when getting the plane off the ground requires a plan "B" cancellation.

Weather does not care how much $$$$$ you throw to the wind - - -
 
A day late, agreed, cancel 6-8 days in a row, something more is a miss. I am 55, so have seen these trains travel in very difficult weather, yet they make it and no one stranded and left behind. I did receive some information that Amtrak is struggling with power as they seem to have not kept it up to par, but on the EB, it's the new power, so maybe that is playing into this. But again, the Trans-Canadian is running, and it is worse conditions, BNSF takes good care of that route, so that eliminates that excuse. Just sad to see people rely on Amtrak and only be left with no train for days.
 
Yeah, let’s keep the trains running. I’m sure the passengers on 5(16) & 5(18) are happy their trains are running right now.
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WWW said:
There is more to this then simple cancellations. Positioning of crews and train sets and then operating on
host railroad tracks that may NOT be fully weather maintained perhaps even with stalled/disabled freight
traffic. Even with clear tracks slight snow drifting may required the contracting for a host railroad locomotive to pull the Amtrak train through the tight spots.
We don't have the opportunity to see the dispatchers board with the train movements to judge the merits
of decisions made to safely move passengers and freights through to the finish destination.
Monday morning quarterbacking may result in bad calls about any train operation - but lets suffer a bit
of inconvenience safely to arrive a day late instead of harrowing frozen nightmares.
Airlines don't fare well on the ground but they sure can fly over it - the situation is much the same with
crew aircraft positioning scheduling the equipment to service the planes to weather the storm -
then there is the time when getting the plane off the ground requires a plan "B" cancellation.

Weather does not care how much $$$$$ you throw to the wind - - -
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All might be true, but Amtrak performance in this winter is worse than before and winter conditions are not extraordinarily or historically bad. What about all the Acela and other NEC cancellations that are not in the domain of host RR's?
 
I think there is a degree of truth that we've been conditioned to not like cold weather - partially (or in large part) by marketing, however, this was, in the Chicago area, one of the most extreme cold snaps we've had for a long time and with the holiday and school cancelled, a lot of people were scrambling with child-care. However, we are treating employee's better which is a good thing.

One thing in the Trains article posted by AshleyRyan15 that stood out at me was this "many activities continue to take place outdoors. Cancellations of this magnitude last occurred in the winters of 1978-79 and 1979-80" - the weather we've had in Chicago was extremely similar to this weather and it was not safe to work outside, so any employee's working outside had to do it in short shifts. The other issue is that when temperatures drop as quickly as they did (and in as wet conditions as we had - it had rained heavily), there are risks of metal breaking and, from the wet, the freezing causing ground movement.
 
One change in society that contributes to poor performance in bad weather conditions is the "drive till you qualify" housing situation. Unionized employees may afford to buy a house, but it's a long drive to report for work. Many of them drive outside of peak hours, so it's a fast trip -- on bare pavement. Suddenly it's a miserable, long trip at 20 to 25 mph. Or daycare problems result. They report late or call in sick. It's hard for managers to penalize this, due to the labor shortage and due to the fact that the same thing is affecting their own performance.

Into the 1950's, transportation employees tended to live closer to work. My father-in-law was an Edmonton transit operator. He and a buddy walked to work every morning from the homes that they had bought. Both operating divisions at that time were on the edge of neighborhoods where operators with split shifts walked home for lunch. Today, with more divisions, there is only one that has some apartments and older single-family homes available.

In the late 1990's I was on Train 4 when it derailed at Model, Colorado. BNSF employees had to drive in a snowstorm from La Junta, 60 miles away. So, too, for a relief crew as the original crew went dead. Then we were on our way, missing both STL connections at KCY. The next day, there was no crew available for Train 4, because they couldn't drive in the near-blizzard to LAJ. I doubt whether any of the crews involved lived within walking distance of the LAJ station.

Around the time that I retired, I began to speculate on the idea of arranging housing closer to work sites as an optional fringe benefit. German employers sometimes offer this. Recently, I heard an NPR story in which some hospitals were getting into that idea.
 
This Friday morning from Tri-Met in the Portland area.

Good morning, with temperatures hovering around freezing, we are continuing to face challenges with ice, refrozen slush and dangerously slick conditions. This morning tens of thousands of people are without power, while unsafe and unpredictable roads are keeping schools and some businesses closed and causing cities and counties to reduce or cancel community services. Conditions in many areas have worsened rather than improved, nearly a week into this winter weather event. With all of these factors in mind, TriMet joins our transportation partners in continuing to urge everyone who can delay travel, to do so. If you are heading out, use extreme caution going to and from stops, stations and transit centers. Check trimet.org, dress warmly, charge up your cell phone and take it with you.

MAX service TriMet has restored MAX Blue Line service between Hatfield Government Center in Hillsboro and Beaverton Transit Center. Shuttle buses are serving riders between Beaverton Transit Center and Cleveland Ave in Gresham. Limited shuttle bus service is available on all other MAX lines: Green, Orange, Red and Yellow. Riders should expect delays.

Bus service Buses are using heavy-duty chains this morning, limiting travel speeds to 25 miles per hour. Some bus lines are detoured around problem areas; others are suspended due to dangerous conditions. Riders should prepare for delays.

Additional services TriMet LIFT is providing life-sustaining trips only through Noon.

TriMet Customer Support Center in Pioneer Courthouse Square is closed.

TriMet WES is providing regular commuter rail service.

TriMet Lost & Found is open.

Our staff has been working non-stop throughout the storm to keep riders moving, despite challenges to our service. Today, they will continue the massive job of clearing the MAX system of snow, ice and debris, while responding to new issues stemming from additional precipitation, refreezing, power outages and other factors out of our control. We are hopeful that forecasts hold and temperatures warm up this afternoon as predicted. Improved weather conditions that speed up melting would be a tremendous help to our crews, now working through a full week of storm cleanup and recovery. We can't thank them enough for their effort.
 

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