The Amtrak Southwest Chief Coalition has the beginnings of a website.
What is happening to the SWC route?
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printman2000
Engineer
My brother is currently waiting for #4(13) in La Junta. It is stopped in Raton waiting for a freight unit since another P42 has died in route. This is another good reason to reroute. At least BNSF would have locos close by when the P42 break down.
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Green Maned Lion
Engineer
I'm becoming convinced that Boardman's position is current route or end of service.
William W.
Lead Service Attendant
Why do you think that they'd end service? A reroute seems like a minor step compared to killing an entire train line.
Amtrak is not going to start new long distance service without states along the way providing some support. That is the reason The Sunset Limited east of New Orleans has not returned. Rerouting the Southwest Chief through Wichita and Amarillo is starting a new long distance route. I haven't heard that Kansas and Texas have come up with any funds to support that route. I agree with GML that Amtrak will eliminate the Southwest Chief and operate the Texas Eagle/Sunset route daily from Chicago to Los Angeles with feeder train from New Orleans to San Antonio (if they get some state support from LA and TX). That will free up a whole bunch of Superliners and locomotives to support the other western long distance trains. Since no new western long distance cars or locomotives are being built, this will help alleviate some of the problems as the equipment gets older.
NW cannonball
Conductor
20-
Cars were a fad and a liberating experience - 100 years ago.
Now a still useful pain-in-the-neck but not something a rational person in any Major Metropolitan Area wants to own.
In the hinterland -- sure -- need one, or two.
Have available at rail and and airports and in the city for visiting friends and relations way out in the stix - good.
But to "own" a stupid money sink? Noway.
I'd rather walk, and do, and it's good for my health.
The money I've saved by not "owning" a car these last 8 years has let me visit Japan, ABQ, and lots of scattered friends all around the country.
My 20-something kids likewise -- one can drive an CVN - says -rent a ground car if have to - prefer public transit - if it has wifi or 4g.. "Greyhound is good, amtrak is better,I can buy 3 cars with thneedey money I've saved not buying the first one"
What I get from the younger generation is - "dumb-f old dad -- we can do without the stupid "needs" you tried to sell us"
They probably right.
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VentureForth
Engineer
OK Smart Alec. Gonna ride All Aboard Florida or the Saratoga and North Creek?
Ryan
Court Jester
AAF hasn't even started service, and the S&NC is basically a tourist train. A single roundtrip daily at half the speed you can drive, weekends only for 3 months then M-F for 3 months, does not make for meaningful passenger service.
VentureForth
Engineer
My point is that AAF is WAY beyond the pipe dream of the X or Z trains. S&NC was touted as the first completely private scheduled passenger train service. You misread the schedule, though. Summer Schedule is FRI-MON - only 4 days, not 5. 
Quite frankly, long distance trains can be completely eliminated in this country, and but for a few thousand jobs, and few more thousand having to find "another way", it will be but a blip in the national scheme of things.
That being said, it's a blip that I enjoy and will do just about anything to support (rather than compromise my other major beliefs to support a politician who might save the train).
Quite frankly, long distance trains can be completely eliminated in this country, and but for a few thousand jobs, and few more thousand having to find "another way", it will be but a blip in the national scheme of things.
That being said, it's a blip that I enjoy and will do just about anything to support (rather than compromise my other major beliefs to support a politician who might save the train).
Ryan
Court Jester
I agree that AAF is way beyond pipe dream, and wish them nothing but the best.
I no read gud on the S&NC schedules.
In the national scheme of things lots of things would be little blips that are also a big deal to the people that it does impact (both the lost jobs, and the lost mobility).
I'd expect the chances of losing the Chief are somewhere between 0 and 0.01%.
I no read gud on the S&NC schedules.
In the national scheme of things lots of things would be little blips that are also a big deal to the people that it does impact (both the lost jobs, and the lost mobility).
I'd expect the chances of losing the Chief are somewhere between 0 and 0.01%.
neroden
Engineer
Well, I wrote him to tell him that would be a terrible idea. You can write him too.
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neroden
Engineer
Might look like that at first. In fact, it would be the last straw which would cause me to leave the country permanently. Am I important? No. Am I representative? Yes.
NY-Chicago and NY-Miami matter. (If NY-Chicago goes away, I'm leaving.)
....anyway, I haven't gotten a reply to my email. Boardman may be considering the stupid move of cancelling the SW Chief entirely. Frankly, the Texas Eagle route to LA is unusable due to being three-a-week; even if it were daily, it would be absurdly long at three nights rather than two.
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As a resident of Texas I just gotta tell ya' that due to the current Political Climate here and with the Republican Candidates that are sure to win ( died in the wool Conservatives to the kookiest of the wing nuts) all the State Wide offices and the State Leg and Senate, there won't be any money appropriated to support Amtrak! We'll be lucky to keep the Eagles and the Heartland Flyer! I'm not sure of LA but their Gov and Leg is of a similar bent IINM??
Amtrak doesn't have the money to improve/maintain the Raton Route by itself and its a lock that New Mexico and Kansas aren't going to contribute a dime to this!
BNSF isn't a charity, they'll let Amtrak transfer to the Southern Trans-con route for a satisfactorly negotiated contract ( read high!)but UP is a different kettle of fish when it comes to a Daily Eagle from CHI-LAX and a stub train SAS- NOL!
My take, ride the SWC through Raton ASAP in the next year, then get ready to say hello to Witchita, Amarillo by morning and Clovis when the SWC moves to the Southern Transcon!!! Big Joe is blowing smoke and being a Politician which goes with the job! Well be the last to know, Amtrak's Communication with its customers is terrible and the current Managements MO is to keep everything close to the vest and let Rumors run wild!
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T
the Duck
Guest
What support are you talking about? Amarillo has already agreed to station and platform How much more do you expect? The Transcon is already an agreed alternate route by both parties and Amtrak has acknowledged such by using it. Would somebody find and post the congressional bill that started Amtrak. I ask question---Could it be that Amtrak Board is in violation of congressional mandate by not reestablishing national service on the Sunset Limited? Whether it is Sunset Limited, Southwest Chief, CZ, or Empire Builder. none of these are coast to coast. They are not serving the Nation. IRS has said two years of no profits the third year of no profits you will be classified as a hobby . --should not this apply to Amtrak and its routes?
Green Maned Lion
Engineer
Nathaniel, I respect your intelligence, your drive, and your insight greatly- more than almost anyone else here I don't know personally. But you have a serious case of Quixotitis. I am far too involved with issues closer to my house to spend too much time on the Chief.
But I suggest you spend your time, if you want to save that train, building a grassroots effort on one of the two routes. Writing to Boardman is tilting at windmills. He has his orders, and he will carry them out.
We might be fairly successful Americans, my friend, but to the people in Washington, I am a Nobody, and unless you have a lot more money and political power than I estimate, so are you. He won't listen to you. Mica won't listen to you. Nobody at that level will listen to a citizen out of the very top 1%, and those people pay for the ears who listen to them.
I know Boardman- he isn't a bad guy. He is also not independently wealthy. He has a job and he wants to keep it or get promoted. Look up James Simpson for a case of what happens when a government worker tries to improve things for the people against the wishes of his boss.
Ryan
Court Jester
VentureForth
Engineer
I appreciate your passion, but pardon me for sounding cynical. Where would you go? Most countries don't have wide open borders like ours. As much of a Jim Hudson loving right winger TEA party wacko I am, I've had plentyto keep me disgusted over the past 6 years. But I can't find a single country where I can go and enjoy the freedoms and opportunities I enjoy here.
You might consider Canada and Australia if you have to leave the US, most like us even if the taxes are high and basicaly are Socialist mixed with Capitalism but both are lovely countries!!!
And my friend Venture Forth isn't as T-party like as he pretends,()just like I'm not totally a Socialist) he's actually a smart guy who's right about our Country, still the best place to be hence the flood of immigrants continuing to risk all to come here!
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VentureForth
Engineer
To the best of my knowledge, neither Canada nor Australia offer ad hoc immigration to US Citizens. Not quite as sure as Canada, but Australia requires a skill set in demand to be considered. That and a lack of anything but super high end tourist trains would make it a nice place to visit but would likely not move to. Canada may be a bit easier, but scores of them are coming over here for some reason. That being said, at least they still have a national rail system!
I've wondered about the UK, but presume after all the Europeans they have flooding their little island, they don't have much room left for American immigrants. But they DO have an avid foamer base and a strong national rail network.
Most other countries don't speak English so they are out. Even though I was born and grew up in Japan, I would not qualify for immigration. But that's one place I would not mind living. Though they DID just raise their consumption tax (ie: VAT or Sales Tax) from 5 to 8%. When I lived there, it was a whopping ZERO.
So, when all is said and done, I'll stay put. Maybe wander from state to state perhaps as employment or political leanings may justify, but I'm happy right here.
SHHH!
I've wondered about the UK, but presume after all the Europeans they have flooding their little island, they don't have much room left for American immigrants. But they DO have an avid foamer base and a strong national rail network.
Most other countries don't speak English so they are out. Even though I was born and grew up in Japan, I would not qualify for immigration. But that's one place I would not mind living. Though they DID just raise their consumption tax (ie: VAT or Sales Tax) from 5 to 8%. When I lived there, it was a whopping ZERO.
So, when all is said and done, I'll stay put. Maybe wander from state to state perhaps as employment or political leanings may justify, but I'm happy right here.
SHHH!
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William W.
Lead Service Attendant
The only countries I could see myself moving to are Singapore, Hong Kong, or Canada. Europe is a tax and financial mess, and I don't want to be stolen from to pay for years of bad government policies.
That being said, I don't see myself ever leaving the US. No country has provided more opportunity, and lifted more people out of poverty than America. I wouldn't want to move to another country where my taxes would double or triple, where starting a business is hard, and where everything is much more expensive. Sure, the US may not have the best rail system in the world, but I hardly think that rail should be the primary factor for wanting to move elsewhere. When you weight the pros vs. the cons, there simply isn't a better place to be in the world.
That being said, I don't see myself ever leaving the US. No country has provided more opportunity, and lifted more people out of poverty than America. I wouldn't want to move to another country where my taxes would double or triple, where starting a business is hard, and where everything is much more expensive. Sure, the US may not have the best rail system in the world, but I hardly think that rail should be the primary factor for wanting to move elsewhere. When you weight the pros vs. the cons, there simply isn't a better place to be in the world.
crescent2
Conductor
I agree, God bless imperfect America! (I fuss about or more commonly try to avoid politicians, but I do love our nation.)
I will edit to add a little anecdote about the visit of the German educators on teacher exchange some time ago. They were truly surprised at our general standard of living, especially our average, modest (to us) homes. The teacher who stayed in my home kept commenting that I had a garden (yard). (OK, Manhattanites might do that, too! LOL) At her request, we walked around my block and she asked the occupations of every resident, some of which I didn't know of course. German workers generally get more vacation time than most American workers, and their trains certainly rock, but all in all, I think we must have it much better here.
Going OT for a moment, they were also surprised at the amount of road kill, and after a few days, one of them asked us, "Where are all the black servants?" This from teachers and a secondary school principal in the mid-1990's. *sigh* These visits (in both directions, for both teams) were eye openers in some ways. We were more alike than different, though, and we all kept in touch occasionally for many years.
I'm sure they also found it strange that they all spoke English well and not one of us could speak more than a few German words. :blush:
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henryj
Conductor
Railpac in California is saying the exact opposite: http://www.railpac.org/2014/07/09/sunset-limited-in-jeopardy-is-serious-business-part-1-comments-by-railpac-member-steve-roberts/ (note citation Ryan)
They think the Sunset is in the most danger and with it the Eagle as the 'tea partiers' will go after the worst performing routes. A worst case scenario would be that both happen, the Sunset and Eagle fall as well as the SWC. Think about it. Amtrak seemingly wants out of the LD business. This would eliminate three money losing trains and the Cardinal would be the fourth. It would free up lots of Superliner equipment to put on the remaining western trains, the CS which runs through three pro-passenger rail states and the CZ and EB which have spectacular scenery. In the East they could superliner the combined Capitol/Silver Star all the way to Florida and only run the Meteor up to NY. They could cut the Crescent at Atlanta and abandon the CONO(thus leaving New Orleans without any passenger rail service), leaving all those extra viewliners for the remaining trains. This should cut their LD loses in half and would leave the whole southwest part of the US without any passenger rail other than the Dallas/Fort Worth commuter operation and the Heartland Flyer. Nothing would operate west of New Orleans or Kansas City without state support. It's a 'tea party' and Eastern sophisticate dream.
There seems to be no doubt now, with the immigration fiasco and all the other scandals, that the Repubs will retake the Senate and reinforce their House majority which will strengthen the so called 'tea partiers'. None of these groups have any sympathy for Amtrak or passenger rail in general for whatever reason. (I know it makes no sense, but that is reality.....write your representative and let them know where you stand). Some see the glass half full....I see a looming disaster, at least in my part of the 'woods'.
Canada and Australia both have excellent public transportation systems in the large cities but being so large and sparesly populated ( California and Texas each have more people than either) the rural areas require roads and vehicles!
I do have to say that Income Taxes and the Goods and Services Tax (VAT in Australia) are high as are Luxury Taxes! Most Americans don't realize how lightly we are taxed compared to other developed countries!
That being said their Health Cate, Education and Senior Programs are far superior to ours where we still have Millions of Citizens without Health Care and Golden Age/ Retirement Security!
We Spend the most on everything but are falling farther behind in all measurable quality of life catagpries!
IMO and lots of experts this is due to one thing, Greed!
I was raised to believe I am my brothers keeper and that we are all in this together, not everyone for themselves, that's a Third World or Plantation Mentality! Let them eat cake is not an American Value!
Canada and Australia do have good but expensive LD Trains but also everything is more expensive than here except Education and Medical Care!
Rant over, YMMV which is your right!
I do have to say that Income Taxes and the Goods and Services Tax (VAT in Australia) are high as are Luxury Taxes! Most Americans don't realize how lightly we are taxed compared to other developed countries!
That being said their Health Cate, Education and Senior Programs are far superior to ours where we still have Millions of Citizens without Health Care and Golden Age/ Retirement Security!
We Spend the most on everything but are falling farther behind in all measurable quality of life catagpries!
IMO and lots of experts this is due to one thing, Greed!
I was raised to believe I am my brothers keeper and that we are all in this together, not everyone for themselves, that's a Third World or Plantation Mentality! Let them eat cake is not an American Value!
Canada and Australia do have good but expensive LD Trains but also everything is more expensive than here except Education and Medical Care!
Rant over, YMMV which is your right!
Ryan
Court Jester
That's nice.
Now maybe you can provide a citation or three about the bloated overhead. Or you can actually lay out your own ideas, since you keep repeating it without any specific details.
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