Amtrak Dining and Cafe Service discussion 2024 H1

[Rasputin]

Let me see if I understand this correctly. The Crescent will have a new viewliner 2 dining car with table cloths and fresh flowers and will be serving flex meals on plates. Are we supposed to be impressed? Is this some type of a joke?

 

[niemi24s]

Yup. Nope.

 

[zephyr17]

Is this some type of a joke?

Well, it is, although I don't think it was meant that way...

 

[Sidney]

That's good news and bad news. The good news is the Crescent is getting a badly needed second food service car, improving things for everyone, coach and sleeper. The bad news is that "fully plated" Flex and it being planned to be offered to coach passengers seems to indicate they may be doubling down on Flex rather than moving towards traditional. I'd rather live without the flowers and table cloth with Flex if that meant that it was still viewed as temporary.

The phrase "putting lipstick on a pig" comes to mind.

Food from the cafe car is better than any flex meal. If Amtrak charges anything over $5 for a flex meal it’s overcharging. Can’t imagine why any Coach passenger would actually pay to eat a reheated frozen dinner

 

[scrollmaster]

That's good news and bad news. The good news is the Crescent is getting a badly needed second food service car, improving things for everyone, coach and sleeper. The bad news is that "fully plated" Flex and it being planned to be offered to coach passengers seems to indicate they may be doubling down on Flex rather than moving towards traditional. I'd rather live without the flowers and table cloth with Flex if that meant that it was still viewed as temporary.

The phrase "putting lipstick on a pig" comes to mind.

Amen to that brother..

 

[lordsigma]

There is a hint in RPA’s hotline that eventual menu and portion size changes being a part of it. So they could conscievably totally change the actual meal to make it more suitable to this format / maybe something more like the pre flex Diner lite on the lake shore and Crescent and still just call it flexible dining. We shall see. For right now on the lake shore they’re plating the current menu - but changes to the actual meals could come. I think there’s a way to get these trains to something acceptable to 90% of people without necessarily going fully to traditional dining. Plating the meals and presenting the diner better and moving away from the folly of the single cafe lounge on the crescent is a positive first step in my opinion.

 

[xzperu42]

Perhaps it will evolve to something more like the Ocean on VIA Rail. Or perhaps they can serve something more like the First Class meals on Acela (some of them are not bad).

 

[PaTrainFan]

My guess is that they will never give up on flex because of costs, but will attempt to "improve" the quality. That is possible to do as I honestly believe even Stouffer's meals are better than flex but that still isn't good enough as I expect top quality when paying top dollar for sleeper accommodations. I haven't been on the Ocean in 50 years but from descriptions, if they can manage that, then I might be placated.

 

[TheVig]

I told my wife last night about the Crescent getting it's dinner back. She was excited until I told her the latest scheme from Amtrak. Roomette prices from CLT to NYP or NOL and back have gone too high to justify tolerating flex dining. Neiman Marcus pricing for Dollar General food.

As far as coach passengers wanting to pay extra for flex meals, they just might. I saw many coach passengers on my recent Carolinian trips spending decent amounts of money for both food and adult beverages.

I also don't have a problem with coach passengers sitting in the dining car during meals or between meals, as long as they have purchased flex meal. Those in coach that haven't, can enjoy their view from an Amfleet window. Controversial viewpoint I know. Besides the Crescent isn't the Zephyr. Let's save the space for those willing to pay for the privilege. Also if we are honest with ourselves, the outdoor views on the Crescent from one end to the other, ain't exactly Marty Stouffer's Wild America.

 

[zephyr17]

Plating the meals and presenting the diner better and moving away from the folly of the single cafe lounge on the crescent is a positive first step in my opinion.

Well, it is a positive step, I do admit that. A single cafe for all food service and lounge (ha!) was ridiculous in the first place, especially on a long duration train like the Crescent.

If their strategy is "Flex Plus", a reheated frozen dinner with a flower, it's a last step, too. They're not going to progress much beyond it, though if they get to Diner Lite like they had it on the Lake Shore, that was not at all bad. Personally, given Amtrak management's track record, I am pretty sure they'll stop at the flower.

I'd much rather have traditional on butcher paper than Flex on a cloth table cloth.

Coach passengers paying extra money for a bad frozen dinner is nuts and a total rip-off. Almost any sandwich on the cafe menu is better. I'll take a Hebrew National Hot Dog over any Flex any day.

Still, getting another food service car does get the Crescent off my do not ride list. I don't avoid trains solely because of Flex. I wasn't going to ride a train where I pretty much couldn't leave my roomette.

I am with @TheVig, I hope Flex-with-a-flower still allows use of the Viewliner diner as a "Sleeper Lounge". I really enjoyed that on the Lake Shore and the Viewliners do make good, if very expensive, lounge cars. Use of them as a lounge is still in the Service Standards (in section 7-10 Flexible Dining: "Exclusive lounge is available for sleeping car customers to relax, dine and socialize 24/7."). But we all know how much the Service Standards means...

 

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Food from the cafe car is better than any flex meal. If Amtrak charges anything over $5 for a flex meal it’s overcharging. Can’t imagine why any Coach passenger would actually pay to eat a reheated frozen dinner

What is the cafe food. I microwaved hamburger or cheese pizza slice for most. I am no fan of the flex meals but, flex is still a step up from the cafe car choices. Though since both options are reheated there ought to be a choice to go either way for a meal if one is in a sleeper. If someone really wants a slice of pizza then make them happy, for the price of a sleeper ticket that seems reasonable.

 

[joelkfla]

What is the cafe food. I microwaved hamburger or cheese pizza slice for most. I am no fan of the flex meals but, flex is still a step up from the cafe car choices. Though since both options are reheated there ought to be a choice to go either way for a meal if one is in a sleeper. If someone really wants a slice of pizza then make them happy, for the price of a sleeper ticket that seems reasonable.

The pizza was dumped for a stromboli a couple years ago. But they also have the hot dogs, mac-n-cheese, & grilled (or microwaved) cheese sandwich, plus a couple of cold sandwiches and salads. The quality may or may not be better than Flex, but at least there are more options.

 

[zephyr17]

The pizza was dumped for a stromboli a couple years ago. But they also have the hot dogs, mac-n-cheese, & grilled (or microwaved) cheese sandwich, plus a couple of cold sandwiches and salads. The quality may or may not be better than Flex, but at least there are more options.

I know that the Santa Fe Chicken sandwich I had in the Maple Leaf's cafe was a much better than the Flex Beef Whatever Bowl ("bourguignon"? Some kind of beef, gravy and limp veggies) on the Lake Shore. I'd have happily taken another Santa Fe Chicken sandwich over the Flex beef slop.

 

[railiner]

I am not sure I understand what is going on…are they going to have the lounge cafe and restore the full diner to the Crescent, but only offer “Flex” meals in the diner?
If the have both, why can’t they provide traditional dining now, as the do on the Meteor?

 

[TheVig]

I am not sure I understand what is going on…are they going to have the lounge cafe and restore the full diner to the Crescent, but only offer “Flex” meals in the diner?
If the have both, why can’t they provide traditional dining now, as the do on the Meteor?

They need to hire / train more chefs.

 

[cassie225]

So let me try this again. I would rather have traditional dining than the upgrades of flowers and tablecloths- that would make paying the price for a bedroom or roomette a little more bearable.I loved traditional dining on the Crescent

 

[Rasputin]

I rode the Crescent as a sleeping car passenger from New Orleans to New York in 2011 and again in 2012. Then my wife and I were sleeping car passengers on the Crescent in May 2019 after the Crescent got a brand new viewliner 2 dining car (It was no. 68018). The food was great on every trip but it was especially delicious on our 2019 trip. I don't know if that had to do with the chef or the presence of the new dining car or both but we thoroughly enjoyed that trip.

With the high sleeping car prices, I have little interest in taking the Crescent or the Lake Shore as long as there is no traditional dining. They are a poor value in my opinion. I possibly could take the westbound Lake Shore from Boston to Chicago on occasion and I would regard the poor meal service as the penance that one must endure in order the reach the land of better trains. If I wanted to take the Sunset, I would likely fly to New Orleans. If I thought it was fascinating to dine on a tablecloth, I would be willing to bring my own.

 

[zephyr17]

They need to hire / train more chefs.

And they've had plenty of time to do it in. My understanding is the diner return to the Crescent has been in the works for awhile. Certainly it's been in the rumor mill for over a year. But they announced Flex Plus instead of something along the lines of "Our diner will be introduced Flexible Dining Service, but shifting to traditional dining similar to Silver Service in the near future".

No chefs. Here's a flower, though.

 

[xzperu42]

deleted

 

[crescent-zephyr]

What is the cafe food. I microwaved hamburger or cheese pizza slice for most. I am no fan of the flex meals but, flex is still a step up from the cafe car choices. Though since both options are reheated there ought to be a choice to go either way for a meal if one is in a sleeper. If someone really wants a slice of pizza then make them happy, for the price of a sleeper ticket that seems reasonable.

I disagree - Flex is worse than the cafe car menu for me. The current national cafe car menu has 2 salad options, and 2 cold sandwich options along with a cheese and cracker tray and a veggie and hummus tray. That's in addition to some hot choices that are, in my opinion, better than flex - the macarnoi and cheese and blue corn tamale.

 

[lordsigma]

Whether flex or the cafe car is "worse" is fairly subjective and highly dependent on one's individual tastes or food choices. In general I'm going to go for a full meal for dinner over a microwave gas station burger or hot dog. But if one cannot eat or does not have an interest in any of the flexible choices, they're likely going to go for what's in the cafe as a salad or sandwich is often a safe standby.

 

[zephyr17]

Whether flex or the cafe car is "worse" is fairly subjective and highly dependent on one's individual tastes or food choices. In general I'm going to go for a full meal for dinner over a microwave gas station burger or hot dog. But if one cannot eat or does not have an interest in any of the flexible choices, they're likely going to go for what's in the cafe as a salad or sandwich is often a safe standby.

The cafe sandwiches these days tend to be much better than "gas station" quality, and the overall quality of them is generally better than Flex, IMHO. A mediocre sandwich beats bad airline food in my book.

 

[eackly]

Well, Amtrak has outsourced commissary services to Aramark for many, many years. All food served on Amtrak, Acela First and Flex heat-and-eat meals, traditional dining, and cafe offerings, comes from Aramark. Amtrak negotiates the specs with Aramark, they provide the product.

If Amtrak chose, and Gategroup offered a competitive bid against Aramark, they could doubtless become Amtrak’s commissary services provider. But Amtrak would still play a large part in specing the products served.

Splitting up into multiple commissary services providers for different product lines would not make economic sense from the perspectives of both economics of scale and negotiating leverage.

It was years ago now, maybe circa 2006, GateGourmet provided the Acela FC meals.

I remember seeing a GateGourmet employee delivering the food the train.

 

[MARC Rider]

The cafe sandwiches these days tend to be much better than "gas station" quality, and the overall quality of them is generally better than Flex, IMHO. A mediocre sandwich beats bad airline food in my book.

I'm not so sure about that. My last cafe car sandwich (on the Northeast Regional) had too much bread and not enough filling, and the bread was on the verge of being stale. The hot sandwiches might be good, except that too many times they are microwaved right in the wrapper, which makes a mess of the meat and turns the bread chewy. I'm also ticked that they haven't returned to bagel for my traditional cafe car breakfast -- bagel and cream cheese, fruit cup, yoghurt and coffee.

The flex meals, if prepared and presented properly, are, in my opinion, perfectly edible and of better quality than the commercial frozen dinner found in the supermarket. Of course, having traditional dining is preferable, but forget about having food freshly cooked on-board to your order. That's been long gone and is never coming back. That's true even in ground-based restaurants outside of the high-end places. Want freshly cooked to order restaurant food? Prepare to spend $50-$100 or more per person for a meal. You think your local diner cooks all its food just for you? Better not go back and take a look at the kitchen!

 

[crescent-zephyr]

In general I'm going to go for a full meal for dinner over a microwave gas station burger or hot dog.

What makes flex a "full meal" vs. the Cafe Car?

You think your local diner cooks all its food just for you?

Waffle House does... and at a good price too! But yes, many chain restaurants are simply re-heating food delivered by Aramark or Sysco. I'm not sure how the "chef-inspired" menu items were prepared on board but the Mahi Mahi and Lamb Shank were the 2 best things I've ever had on a train and that Includes VIA, Pullman Rail Journeys, dinner trains, etc. so the quality can be provided if Amtrak is willing to pay the bill.

I wonder how much that Lamb Shank and Mahi Mahi cost vs. the Flex meal dishes? The sad thing is they may be the same price.