What If?????

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

I know this is purely hypothetical, however, a worthy question to post given the events happening within Amtrak the last few years now. My reasons for asking this are personal at this time! Everyone put your differences aside here, and answer this straight from the heart!!

"How is it going to affect you if/when Amtrak is dismantled in any way shape or form?"

This includes everything from the NEC to the long distance services and everything else in between! I put the "if/when" part into the equation simply because I do not like what I have observed within Amtrak over the last five years!!! Once again all differences aside!!! Please stay kind of brief if you can, but have at it if necessary. I am only interested in hearing just how important this subject is to you for real!!!!!

I will offer this opinion of how I view many of the opinions posted on this site!! Many of you do not understand the inner workings of a company such as Amtrak! It is not just any normal business! It was created for a specific purpose. The same holds true with NASA. It was also created for a specific purpose. It took me a long time to know exactly, but I "know" what the purpose is for both mentioned organizations. The other opinion is I personally believe the other thread regarding the 180day notices has gotten quite a bit out of hand!! If you only knew!!! We'll leave it at that!! Anyway, here goes..........lemme hear what you have to say!! OBS....

 

[AmtrakLoverAndHater]

I think you need to stop posting about you (and those like you such as BNSF) "insider" knowledge if you cannot immediately substantiate the kind of claims being made in that thread. This board does not need such unnecessary fanfare, especially given that as of yet no "doomsday" predictions have come to fruition.

:unsure:

 

[Guest_Amtrak OBS Employee]

I think you need to stop posting about you (and those like you such as BNSF) "insider" knowledge if you cannot immediately substantiate the kind of claims being made in that thread. This board does not need such unnecessary fanfare, especially given that as of yet no "doomsday" predictions have come to fruition.

:unsure:

I didn't ask for a peronal attack!!!!! OBS.... h34r:

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

I think you need to stop posting about you (and those like you such as BNSF) "insider" knowledge if you cannot immediately substantiate the kind of claims being made in that thread.  This board does not need such unnecessary fanfare, especially given that as of yet no "doomsday" predictions have come to fruition.  

:unsure:

I didn't ask for a peronal attack!!!!! OBS.... h34r:

Forgot to log in.......... anyway, if this is a personal attack, I didn't ask for it. I am asking the importance of the subject of Amtrak's future!!! OBS...

 

[George Harris]

We will see in action the meaning of "Balkanization"

The Northeast corridor will be a mess. If Amtrak dissapears, then who owns the fixed assets? The US Government? The Penn Central? Actually, I think it will be the government. I don't see any majority in the senate agreeing to fund this money pit, so the states involved will have to figure out how to cough up the cash. It is likely to devolved into a bunch of commuter lines on fixed facilities of ever increasing decrepitude.

New York to Buffalo service will cease because New York state feels that someone else should pay for it and there will be nobody out there with an open checkbook. They may even try to armtwist or blackmail CSX to do it, but it won't work.

California and Illinois will figure out a way to keep their in-state trains going. North Carolina and Virginia will figure out how to keep Washington-Richmond-Raleigh-Charlotte going, and maybe even something over the Crescent route north of Charlotte. Maine and Massachusetts will keep the Downeaster going, and Illinois and Michigan will keep the Chicago-Detroit trains going, with no cooperation from Indiana.

California, Oregon, and Washington may keep the Coast Starlight.

The rest of the services will cease.

Since Canada is the only pracitical market for the Superliners and they seem to also be in the don't fund passenger trains mode, the superliners not sold to California-Orgon-Washington state will be scrapped. Single level equipment not sold to such states as Virginia, North Carolina, Illinois, and Michigan will be sold overseas, most likely to China, or maybe India (regauging required in India) or else scrapped.

 

[Amtrak OBS Gone Freight]

We will see in action the meaning of "Balkanization"
The Northeast corridor will be a mess. If Amtrak dissapears, then who owns the fixed assets? The US Government? The Penn Central? Actually, I think it will be the government. I don't see any majority in the senate agreeing to fund this money pit, so the states involved will have to figure out how to cough up the cash. It is likely to devolved into a bunch of commuter lines on fixed facilities of ever increasing decrepitude.

New York to Buffalo service will cease because New York state feels that someone else should pay for it and there will be nobody out there with an open checkbook. They may even try to armtwist or blackmail CSX to do it, but it won't work.

California and Illinois will figure out a way to keep their in-state trains going. North Carolina and Virginia will figure out how to keep Washington-Richmond-Raleigh-Charlotte going, and maybe even something over the Crescent route north of Charlotte. Maine and Massachusetts will keep the Downeaster going, and Illinois and Michigan will keep the Chicago-Detroit trains going, with no cooperation from Indiana.

California, Oregon, and Washington may keep the Coast Starlight.

The rest of the services will cease.

Since Canada is the only pracitical market for the Superliners and they seem to also be in the don't fund passenger trains mode, the superliners not sold to California-Orgon-Washington state will be scrapped. Single level equipment not sold to such states as Virginia, North Carolina, Illinois, and Michigan will be sold overseas, most likely to China, or maybe India (regauging required in India) or else scrapped.

Excellent post, George! This is a well thought out summary of what can/may occur. With all that in mind, (regarding the purpose of my hypthetical question) how would it affect you personally?

I am trying to gauge the overall opinion of how important Amtrak and its future is to folks. I am kinda trying to get all I can into one thread. I know we have a predominately rail supporting group here, however, there are many guests who come along, too. In other words I wanna know the "real" opinion of the public!!! OBS...

 

[AmtrakFan]

This Country will be hurt big time by the lost of a choice for Travel. Remember Amtrak was the only thing moving during 9/11 what would American's have done if we didn't have Amtrak? Then Amtrak is the only thing moving in Bad Weather frequently for example Chicago's 1998 Blizzard 20 Inches of Snow, Amtrak was the only thing moving for DAYS! Also it does provide essental low-cost (In Some Cases) Transportation for some of Rural America and could help reduces our countries dependence on Foreign Oil. The Railroad Retirement Board would be hurt Big Time with all the unemplyoeed Amtrak Workers that don't have prior rights to there Home Roads. Most if not all State Supported Corridor Trains will stay and very few non-State Trains e.g. Hoosier State, Wolverine. But this will greatly hurt American's Mobility.

 

[AlanB]

I think you need to stop posting about you (and those like you such as BNSF) "insider" knowledge if you cannot immediately substantiate the kind of claims being made in that thread.  This board does not need such unnecessary fanfare, especially given that as of yet no "doomsday" predictions have come to fruition.  

:unsure:

I didn't ask for a peronal attack!!!!! OBS.... h34r:

Forgot to log in.......... anyway, if this is a personal attack, I didn't ask for it. I am asking the importance of the subject of Amtrak's future!!! OBS...

I have to agree with OBS here, he didn't ask for an attack. Yes he did allude to things that may or may not go on behind the scenes that we don't know about.

However, the point of this thread and his post was not "the sky is falling" or anything like that. He simply asked a reasonable and interesting question, "How would you personally feel or be affected if Amtrak went away?"

There is no proclamation in that statement. There is no threat in that statement. There is no promise in that statement.

As such, I will remind everyone to keep personal attacks off this board, as they don't belong here. If anyone would like to answer his question that is fine, and perhaps even helpful. If you don't, that is also fine. This country, as well as this board, offers all of us those rights.

But any further personal attacks, especially in this thread with this innocuous question, will be deleted. Anthony and I allowed a bit more leeway in the 180 day thread, since that was indeed a proclamation. This is not!

 

[Trogdor]

Remember Amtrak was the only thing moving during 9/11 what would American's have done if we didn't have Amtrak?

Amtrak was not the "only thing moving" after September 11. While I strongly agree that passenger rail should exist, and can stand up to scrutiny on its own merits (provided there is a level field on which all modes are judged), one ought not exaggerate. The airlines were grounded after September 11, but Amtrak, intercity bus, automobiles, boats (where applicable), bicycles, feet, etc., were all still available to people trying to transport themselves.

 

[AmtrakFan]

Mr. Madison,

Thank You for pointing out my Major Error.

 

[GG-1]

Aloha

For ? days we had no mail, planes boats, or other normals of life, the bridge isnt here so also no amtrak

 

[Bill631]

I certainly have opinions on this subject.

As Amtrak is my preferred mode of long distance trnsportation, I would be deeply saddened if one day we didn't have it.

I much prefer it to flying, even though it takes quite a bit longer to get me where I am going. But it is a very relaxing way to travel, and I always thoroughly enjoy my trips.

One of the problems Amtrak faces, I think, is that a vast majority of Americans just aren't aware of the Amtrak system throughout the country.

When I first started to take Amtrak several years ago, none of my relatives in Texas knew that Amtrak serviced Houston.

Many Americans might take the train if they only knew about it.

Here on the East Coast, train travel is widely used, but in other parts of the country, everyone gets in their cars and drives everywhere.

If more people took Amtrak, it would surely help in the long run.

Bill

 

[MrFSS]

Amtrak was not the "only thing moving" after September 11.

Robert, my wife and I were on an Acela to Boston on 9/11 and after we arrived there(about 10:30 AM) they shut Amtrak down and we had to take a commuter back to Providence. RH, from whence we came.

How long was Amtrak shut down, just on 9/11, only on the east coast?

Just curious.

 

[PRR 60]

Amtrak was not the "only thing moving" after September 11.

Robert, my wife and I were on an Acela to Boston on 9/11 and after we arrived there(about 10:30 AM) they shut Amtrak down and we had to take a commuter back to Providence. RH, from whence we came.

How long was Amtrak shut down, just on 9/11, only on the east coast?

Just curious.

The NEC was down for about 24 hours post 9-11. And Amtrak did not experience any great influx of riders in the days immediately following the attack. Amtrak ridership that week was about 30% below normal simply because no one was travelling anywhere by any means. Most stranded air travellers either rented cars or waited until flight resumed three days later.

 

[Boxcar]

"How is it going to affect you if/when Amtrak is dismantled in any way shape or form?"

Other than sadden me over the lost of another part of our history, it wouldn't affect my life much if any.

By not having any passenger routes within 2 or 3 hundred miles, I never thought about Amtrak.

Recently after discovering rail travel, I had hoped to do my long distance travels by rail when possible. I even had hope ,although unrealistic, that new routes could be established through my town to allow more travels.

 

[Guest]

On a personal level, it wouldn't affect me, since I use Amtrak for business only because I prefer the mode of travel versus the airline torture. I would hate to see Amtrak, as we know it disappear, but as has been said many times on this forum, changes need to be made and they cannot be ignored much longer. With slightly over 1% market share, it cannot have that much of an impact on the population, which is why there is so much apathy about the potential demise of the company.

Unless you live in the northeast, I would be willing to wager that you could do an informal poll on the street and tell people that Amtrak is going away and the majority of them would say, "I didn't know Amtrak was even here."

With less than 20,000 employees now, plus the various railfans, etc. in the country, the loss would be minimal and hardly noticed.

 

[The Metropolitan]

Ok, Personally, based on my travel habits, if the system degraded to the state alluded to in the first reply, it would greatly affect my travelling habits.

From Baltimore at the present, here are my main desired destinations for the near future, and how I currently plan to get there:

Philadelphia - Driving or Amtrak

New York City - Amtrak

Washington, DC - MARC

Richmond, VA - Amtrak

Chicago, IL - Amtrak

Pittsburgh, PA - Amtrak

If Amtrak were to evaporate, this is what would happen to these trips.

Philadelphia - Driving or Greyhound (Who knows if anything would take over the Commuter train gap from Perryville to Newark, DE)

New York City - Tour Bus Daytrip Special

Washington, DC - MARC

Richmond, VA - WOULD NOT SEE ME.

Chicago, IL - maybe plane, but likely WOULD NOT SEE ME

Pittsburgh, PA - Driving or Hound.

Originally, 5 of the 6 trips were to be definitely made via rail.

Under a revised network, only ONE of the 6 still is via rail, while two trips would likely be scrapped entirely.

 

[Everydaymatters]

Losing Amtrak would definitely make me cut back on vacations.

I wouldn't travel as far because Greyhound is very uncomfortable. You ride with your knees up to your chin in a small seat packed like sardines. Air travel is a hassel from the minute you enter the airport until you get your luggage.

So the bottom line is, I'd drive and I'd rarely go more than 150 miles.

 

[RailFanLNK]

I second that with what "Everydaymatters" just said. Honestly, airline travel is not a hassle from the start to the finish, but a major pain in the ***! There's a difference. I will never forget when I got back from my airline trip from hell last July 4th and said to myself and to some friends, "there's gotta be a different way." I have found the different way! I LOVE the different way! Its more relaxing, if you don't check bags you get on the train and then you get off the train. I LNK (Lincoln NE) it takes 5 minutes to get home from the depot. I airport 15 minutes if you don't check bags and 30 minutes if you do check bags. I get back to LNK at 4:11am, I wake up for about 15 minutes, drive home and go back to bed! I will be devasted if the transportation form I finally found is curtailed or eliminated. I like Everydaymatters, will travel less....PERIOD!!!!

 

[PennCentralFan]

I think rail traffic in the US would be in very deep trouble. There's no gaurantee that the NEC would remain. Penn Central couldn't wait to get rid of it. I doubt the NEC was making money for them and where would the money for capital come from for the NEC? I don't think a private company would make money on a Wash to Boston Corridor. No way would NS or CSX want to get in the passenger business. Even a NYC to Phila route would be iffy financially when you take into consideration the capital needed to keep stations and track going.

The US like most other industrialized countries needs to fund and maintain a nationwide passenger train service because it is vital. Just because something isn't profitable doesn't mean it's unnecessary. Using screwball libertarian logic you'd have to pay a toll to drive down from one end of your street to the other and pay for clean air like you do for phone service and cable tv

Any talk of a viable passenger system post-Amtrak is just pure ideological nonesense and plays right into the hands of the Bush administration.

Don't forget Amtrak was created for a reason! With the price of oil going up and roads and skies getting more crowded an inter-state rail system will prove to be one of the saviors of the country. It's cheaper in the long-run if we maintain and expand Amtrak service now.

 

[jphjaxfl]

I don't believe rail passenger service will totally disappear in the United States, even if Amtrak is reorganized and perhaps given a new name. The United States, as a world leader, would not want the image of having no rail service. Many foreign tourists who visit the US use passenger trains to travel throughout the US. Highways are extremely congested and if if you don't want to drive on a trip, a intercity bus can get delayed due to traffic. I experience air travel for business frequently and it is not fun. On a trip last week, I spent 6 hours in a very crowded Atlanta airport due to weather delays. The crowd at ATL was very uncivilized and it was probably as bad as any Amtrak delay, but unfortunately the press tends to pick on Amtrak. Polls that have been taken over the last 10 years increasingly indicate that Americans want passenger service similar to Europe or Japan. Because the rail passenger infrastructure has been allowed to deteriorate for the last 50 years, it is going to take time and lots of money to fix. Government officials need to come up with a 25 year plan similar to what some of the transit agencies have done. This would allow the United States to get back to having one of the best passenger rail systems in the world. If those of us who use Amtrak whenever its practical don't persistantly hound our representatives and allow Amtrak to be completely shut down, it will be very sad day for the United States.

 

[AKA]

Personaly, places like San Francisco, Seattle, Boston New york City,Chicago ect, ect ect, would not see my tourist dollars. I visit my son at least once sometimes twice a year in NC. CLE to WAS to NPN. He picks us up in NPN. OK so I do a lot of vacation travel by train. My dollars are just as good as anyones. I visit family in DEN. , by train. Would it kill me no , would I like it no. I buy tickets and I tip and I eat on the train. Its the tricle down effect. All the places I would visit on the would lose dollars, ect. You get the picture. I would not fly on thier best day. I will drive to see my son in NC. But I most likely would not drive elsewhere. OK the point. If you want a sleeper to any one of the places I have listed you better start now, so you can go in Sept. Oct. ect. People ride trains. Congress cant see this because congress people dont ride trains. People ride trains for many reasons. They all pay. Again it wont kill me personaly. I just hope Amtrak lives on. I use it .

 

[NativeSon5859]

It would be pretty hurtful to me personally, living in New Orleans.

Growing up I always took comfort in the fact that we always had decent rail service out of here in terms of routes, not frequency.

I could always catch a train for a day trip to Meridian or Lafayette or Jackson, etc.

It would be a huge blow to me. I grew up on the rails. The end of an era is an understatement.

 

[sentinal]

i for one would miss it. i have only recently started taking Amtrak. for years my hold up was the cost issue. the cost and time of taking Amtrak kept me off the rails. only since i have the money to put to taking the train, do i know take the extra time to take the train every chance my wife lets me although from time to time she makes me climb in to a pressurised alluminum tube and go hurling through the skys at 30,000 ft

11 days after 9-11-01 i for one did go on vaction and spent my money while every one else was too scared to travel any where. oh yes and i did fly

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Adapt and Overcome.

There is no other option.

This is not an rehearse. This is Life.