What Are My Chances

[ScouseAndy]

From the original post,

The online reservation system wouldn't let me book the Roomette fro DEN to Colfax so I could stay in the Roomette to Colfax and get lunch on my reservation.

Do you have any idea why you could not book your roomette to Colfax? That seems odd.

No idea whatsoever. So I didn't even consider checking the Roomette to Davis.

I've seen several stories of passengers being allowed to move into unoccupied sleeper accommodations early.

I have direct person experience of being allowed to have a meal on my sleeper reservation in the dining room before I could occupy my Roomette - because the train was running late.

Sometimes a train is so late sleeper passengers get extra meals, if the train still has food left.

The bottom line is it never hurts to ask, and asking is substantially different than attempting to perpetrate a scam.

It's really sad some forum members are incapable of detecting the difference.

You have deliberately booked coach with the sole intention of getting a free upgrade for a portion of your journey, this is doing Amtrak out of $$$ and as Amtrak is funded by US tax payers you are ultimately attempting to scroung a free upgrade off your fellow tax payers.

If that isn't a scam I don't know what is

 

[Lonestar648]

Personally, I would never ask to remain in the sleeper if I had a coach seat purchased unless I was paying for the upgrade for the coach segment. I just do not see this as honest, plus asking to me is imposing on the SCA and the Conductor, asking them to do something that could jeopardize them. And if you tip the SCA big for allowing you, you could have used the tip towards being legally in the sleeper.

 

[willem]

No idea whatsoever. So I didn't even consider checking the Roomette to Davis.

I've seen several stories of passengers being allowed to move into unoccupied sleeper accommodations early.

I have direct person experience of being allowed to have a meal on my sleeper reservation in the dining room before I could occupy my Roomette - because the train was running late.

Sometimes a train is so late sleeper passengers get extra meals, if the train still has food left.

The bottom line is it never hurts to ask, and asking is substantially different than attempting to perpetrate a scam.

It's really sad some forum members are incapable of detecting the difference.

I have also heard stories of passengers entering accommodations early or leaving them late. I have eaten extra meals when the train was late.

When I was on active duty, I had an executive officer tell me, "If you don't ask, they can't say yes."

It is sad the way some forum members jump to conclusions—or perhaps it's sad that I don't see as clearly as they do. Somehow I missed the scam you are accused of perpetrating by having the reservation system decline to sell you a ticket from Denver to Colfax, or by titling a thread "What Are My Chances" in which you discuss actions you have already taken.

 

[KmH]

You have deliberately booked coach with the sole intention of getting a free upgrade for a portion of your journey, this is doing Amtrak out of $$$ and as Amtrak is funded by US tax payers you are ultimately attempting to scroung a free upgrade off your fellow tax payers.

If that isn't a scam I don't know what is

It wasn't a scam. So yep - You don't know what a scam is.

Don't Believe Everything You Think: The 6 Basic Mistakes We Make in Thinking. - Kida, Thomas E.

How in the world would you have any clue whatsoever what my intentions were when I booked my trip?

I ask in Post #1 "Is there a chance the TASC will let me stay in the Roomette all the way to Davis?"

More on.

I ask the TASC if I can stay in the Roomette - and the TASC answers with Yes or No. That's a scam?

LMAO. The stuff you read on the Internet.

 

[Hal]

You have deliberately booked coach with the sole intention of getting a free upgrade for a portion of your journey, this is doing Amtrak out of $$$ and as Amtrak is funded by US tax payers you are ultimately attempting to scroung a free upgrade off your fellow tax payers.

If that isn't a scam I don't know what is

It wasn't a scam. So yep - You don't know what a scam is.Don't Believe Everything You Think: The 6 Basic Mistakes We Make in Thinking. - Kida, Thomas E.

How in the world would you have any clue whatsoever what my intentions were when I booked my trip?

I ask in Post #1 "Is there a chance the TASC will let me stay in the Roomette all the way to Davis?"

More on.

I ask the TASC if I can stay in the Roomette - and the TASC answers with Yes or No. That's a scam?

LMAO. The stuff you read on the Internet.

It is sleazy. And YOU are making a mistake in thinking. Also you are putting the attendant in a spot that you should not be putting them in. They could get in trouble. There are spotters.
Also some conductors who care do a sweep from time to time of the sleeping cars. They find you in a room when you are not supposed to be there, it is not going to be a pretty situation for you, or for the attendant if they said OK.

Don't be a knucklehead.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[jis]

Ah! What lengths people will go through to try to convince themselves and others that what is obviously wrong is right. And if people disagree, just call them mean. A trick as old as time itself just give us a break and go and do whatever sleazy thing pleases you. Just don't expect either sympathy or acceptance.

 

[KmH]

Myself, and some others, disagree.

Everyone is welcome to there opinion.

Such is life that a lot of things can't be reduced to black and white.

I'm done here.

 

[ScouseAndy]

Myself, and some others, disagree.

Everyone is welcome to there opinion.

Such is life that a lot of things can't be reduced to black and white.

I'm done here.

Its attempted theft from the US tax payer and all Amtrak travellers IMHO, also if you are going to offer the SCA a bigger tip in order to get in the room early then this is surely viewable as a bribe and corruption if the SCA is found out

 

[PRR 60]

Myself, and some others, disagree.

Everyone is welcome to there opinion.

Such is life that a lot of things can't be reduced to black and white.

I'm done here.

Its attempted theft from the US tax payer and all Amtrak travellers IMHO, also if you are going to offer the SCA a bigger tip in order to get in the room early then this is surely viewable as a bribe and corruption if the SCA is found out

I would not go so far as to say "theft." The idea was to ask an Amtrak employee permission to occupy the room longer than ticketed. If the Amtrak employee granted that permission, for the passenger to then do so would not be theft. If you are at a restaurant and ask for a free dessert and your server gets you one, that is not "theft." The onus is on Amtrak employees not to violate the rules, and to not have tips influence decisions to violate rules.

 

[Lonestar648]

I agree. If you ask, the employee (SCA and/or Conductor) should follow the rules established by Amtrak and say no. If a larger tip is offered and influences the employee, both the passenger and the employee are violating the rules. Now if the passenger just asks with no inference of money passing then it is the employee granting a passenger's request with no intention of being compensated. But this employee has put themselves in jeopardy by violating Amtrak rules. Therefore, by asking the employee to grant your request, you are also asking the employee to put themselves in jeopardy if found out. Seems innocent to some but always look at the implications the simple request could have.

 

[the_traveler]

Under AGR 1.0, I redeemed from PDX back east. Of course, this connected in SAC. I wanted to stay on the CS longer, and also avoid the 4 hour wait in SAC at 6 am. So I bought a coach ticket round trip from SAC to EMY.

The night before, I asked the SCA if the room was sold between SAC and EMY and if not if I could stay in my room, or must I have to vacate the room and move to coach. I was not trying to get a free meal, as breakfast is not served until after departure from SAC.

After conferring with the Conductor and LSA, it was agreed that I could occupy the room - and I must pay for breakfast. I had no problem with that.

I was not trying to scam Amtrak at all. I paid my fare between SAC and EMY, the room was on a car on the CS between SAC and EMY and the room would have been empty between SAC and EMY.

As I see it, Amtrak was ahead with the transaction. If I got off in SAC, Amtrak would not have received the extra paid fare from me between SAC and EMY. The DC also received extra revenue from the meal I purchased. (If I got off in SAC, Starbucks or somebody would have received it, not Amtrak.)

So please explain how I "scammed" Amtrak?

 

[Bob Dylan]

I'm with Dave on this, I've done the same thing many times back in the good ole AGR1.0 Zone System days, especially on the Toledo Shuffle, the SEA/PDX to SAC CSto CZ connection etc.

This in no way cheated Amtrak, as was said it actually raised extra revenue since I paid for my meals in the Diner on the Coach leg of the trip! YMMV

 

[ScouseAndy]

Under AGR 1.0, I redeemed from PDX back east. Of course, this connected in SAC. I wanted to stay on the CS longer, and also avoid the 4 hour wait in SAC at 6 am. So I bought a coach ticket round trip from SAC to EMY.

The night before, I asked the SCA if the room was sold between SAC and EMY and if not if I could stay in my room, or must I have to vacate the room and move to coach. I was not trying to get a free meal, as breakfast is not served until after departure from SAC.

After conferring with the Conductor and LSA, it was agreed that I could occupy the room - and I must pay for breakfast. I had no problem with that.

I was not trying to scam Amtrak at all. I paid my fare between SAC and EMY, the room was on a car on the CS between SAC and EMY and the room would have been empty between SAC and EMY.

As I see it, Amtrak was ahead with the transaction. If I got off in SAC, Amtrak would not have received the extra paid fare from me between SAC and EMY. The DC also received extra revenue from the meal I purchased. (If I got off in SAC, Starbucks or somebody would have received it, not Amtrak.)

So please explain how I "scammed" Amtrak?

Did you receive a better level accommodation than everyone else who had paid for coach between SAC and EMY? Short answer yes! Wow you paid for your meal in the dining car and make it sound like that it makes it ok. everyone else who paid for a coach ticket would also have had to pay for a meal.

Ultimately you got a better level of service then you paid for, yes I am aware airlines do offer free upgrades etc, the difference is they aren't funded by the tax payer

 

[Hal]

Under AGR 1.0, I redeemed from PDX back east. Of course, this connected in SAC. I wanted to stay on the CS longer, and also avoid the 4 hour wait in SAC at 6 am. So I bought a coach ticket round trip from SAC to EMY.

The night before, I asked the SCA if the room was sold between SAC and EMY and if not if I could stay in my room, or must I have to vacate the room and move to coach. I was not trying to get a free meal, as breakfast is not served until after departure from SAC.

After conferring with the Conductor and LSA, it was agreed that I could occupy the room - and I must pay for breakfast. I had no problem with that.

I was not trying to scam Amtrak at all. I paid my fare between SAC and EMY, the room was on a car on the CS between SAC and EMY and the room would have been empty between SAC and EMY.

As I see it, Amtrak was ahead with the transaction. If I got off in SAC, Amtrak would not have received the extra paid fare from me between SAC and EMY. The DC also received extra revenue from the meal I purchased. (If I got off in SAC, Starbucks or somebody would have received it, not Amtrak.)

So please explain how I "scammed" Amtrak?

Some said scam, I used the term sleazy. Read the other persons post, it is numbered 4 in the thread for their motivation. Not the same as your motivation as I read it.

I am concerned about employees being put into a situation where they could get in trouble. Particularly in the current atmosphere of bean countering and cuts. The company could consider it theft of services.

 

[Bob Dylan]

ScouseAndy: Wrong on the airline subsidy matter, here in the US the Airlines Live off Government Largesse, not on their Revenue!

And Dave's and my point about the meals is they would have been included in the fare if we'd been in a Sleeper, but by buying a Coach ticket ( not always at Lowest Bucket either like on Sleeper Fares)we actually increased Amtrak Revenue on the Coach Leg.

And the Chicago to Toledo and SAC to Davis, Martinez or Emeryville legs are very short rides share the Room wouldn't be occupied so where's the harm to Amtrak! ( and I've always got the Conductor and SCAs OK, not trying to game or cheat anyone!)

 

[KmH]

Under AGR 1.0, I redeemed from PDX back east. Of course, this connected in SAC. I wanted to stay on the CS longer, and also avoid the 4 hour wait in SAC at 6 am. So I bought a coach ticket round trip from SAC to EMY.

The night before, I asked the SCA if the room was sold between SAC and EMY and if not if I could stay in my room, or must I have to vacate the room and move to coach. I was not trying to get a free meal, as breakfast is not served until after departure from SAC.

After conferring with the Conductor and LSA, it was agreed that I could occupy the room - and I must pay for breakfast. I had no problem with that.

I was not trying to scam Amtrak at all. I paid my fare between SAC and EMY, the room was on a car on the CS between SAC and EMY and the room would have been empty between SAC and EMY.

As I see it, Amtrak was ahead with the transaction. If I got off in SAC, Amtrak would not have received the extra paid fare from me between SAC and EMY. The DC also received extra revenue from the meal I purchased. (If I got off in SAC, Starbucks or somebody would have received it, not Amtrak.)

So please explain how I "scammed" Amtrak?

Thank you.

A nice AU member pointed out earlier in this thread that the sleeper from TRU to DAV was close to the same fare (only an additional $13) as DEN to TRU.

I changed my reservation and have booked the Roomette all the way to Davis, which I also posted about earlier in the thread.

Since I now also can have lunch in the dining car somewhere between TRU and Davis on my new reservation - I really make out.

I figure lunch, at retail, would cost me at least $13 if I had a coach ticket.

The Angus burger, with cheese and bacon, is $15

Pepsi $2.25

Desert $6.25 for the chocolate creme tart/Greek yogurt cheesecake.

That's $23.50.

One could say Amtrak is now paying me to keep the Roomette from TRU to DAV,

 

[Ryan]

Myself, and some others, disagree.

Everyone is welcome to there opinion.

Such is life that a lot of things can't be reduced to black and white.

I'm done here.

Its attempted theft from the US tax payer and all Amtrak travellers IMHO, also if you are going to offer the SCA a bigger tip in order to get in the room early then this is surely viewable as a bribe and corruption if the SCA is found out

I would not go so far as to say "theft." The idea was to ask an Amtrak employee permission to occupy the room longer than ticketed. If the Amtrak employee granted that permission, for the passenger to then do so would not be theft. If you are at a restaurant and ask for a free dessert and your server gets you one, that is not "theft." The onus is on Amtrak employees not to violate the rules, and to not have tips influence decisions to violate rules.

Sure it is, it's just the server stealing from his employer (unless the restaurant allows servers to comp small-$$$ items). Getting someone to do your stealing for you doesn't make it not-theft, it just spreads the guilt around a bit.

 

[EB_OBS]

I think some of you respondents are downright mean. From what I have read if the crew let the passenger have the higher class accommodation it would be up to their good nature and discretion.

Sorry, but the IG would view this as theft and insist that the employees involved be fired. Yes I know there will be dozens and dozens of examples of passengers entering their rooms early and staying in them beyond their reservation, however the IG, DOES NOT CARE. Each and every instance that the IG views as theft or fraud is dealt with and typically quite harshly. There is no quicker way to get fired from Amtrak then to be caught involved in any way with theft or fraud.

 

[OBS]

Unfortunately, EB OBS has summed it up nicely (truthfully) from the perspective of Amtrak's IG...