Vermonter Reroute: Any updates?
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George Harris
Engineer
At the rate they are going on this thing they better keep an eye out to avoid being over run by a high speed glacier.
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Nathanael
Guest
Massachussets is very closed-mouthed about this. But reports are that there has been track work done on the new route. I might give, as a point of comparison, Illinois, where absolutely no press releases have come out about the Moline service or the Dubuque service, and precious few about the Englewood Flyover, but I am told that some trackwork has actually been started on the Moline service -- and a kind person is posting YouTube videos of the Englewood Flyover work every few weeks.
This is not how I'd do it; I prefer the Minnesota style of open publication of information. But this seems to be the preferred mode of operation of some state DOTs.
This is not how I'd do it; I prefer the Minnesota style of open publication of information. But this seems to be the preferred mode of operation of some state DOTs.
Was just in that area. New rail was lay next to track. However the roadbed look only good for 10 mph operation. In some areas I was wondering if the tracks were in service at all. Did see a local go by and later past a parked train getting a new crew.
To the north of Northampton, there are tracks which currently handle only freight. I haven't seen much of anything going on, and I travel, by car, on a parallel path most days. I'm so looking forward to taking the train from Greenfield, MA to wherever. Day after tomorrow I'll be hopping on the Vermonter, heading to NYC, but it still has to go through Amherst. I don't care, as I'm in no rush, but (if I could still run), I could run between Brattleboro and Springfield faster than is currently the case.
Yes, Mass DOT and MBTA do not appear to be agencies that put much effort into providing on-line updates on their projects. The MBTA has project status sites, but the info provided is not detailed nor really kept up to date. Corporate culture sort of thing I expect.
There is a CT River thread in the Pan Am railways forum at railroad.net that has reports on the on-going track work. The start of the track work was reportedly delayed in part because of the lack of crews available to do the work. Mass DOT also brought the line or at least agreed to buy it (don't know if the deal has been completed or not). The negotiations on the purchase and all the accompanying agreements may have slowed down the start of the construction. There is a post in the thread that links to the Northampton Passenger Rail Advisory Committee website with minutes from a April, 2013 meeting where the Mass DOT director of rail programs stated that trains are scheduled to run in 2014. Since he is not providing a more specific window in the year, I take that to mean by end of 2014.
The Northampton station will have a 45' long mini-high platform and a 305' long low level platform (viewgraph presentation). That is a rather short total platform length.
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Nathanael
Guest
The announcment of the purchase agreement was over a year ago now and board authorization happened way back then. http://www.mbta.com/about_the_mbta/public_meetings/?id=23173
It looks like they're still working on finalizing the agreement, though. However, apparently trackwork has been going on all year.
http://www.valleyadvocate.com/article_print.cfm?aid=17350
That's the newest article I've found. Expected move of the train is in 2015.
This seems exceedingly unlikely to satisfy the FRA level-boarding rule. I'll believe it when I see it
Ok, so the date for the re-route has slipped to 2015, hopefully early 2015. Back when the grant was awarded, it was supposed to take place in 2013. So many of the HSIPR grant projects have slipped on their schedules. If it was not for the hard September 30, 2017 deadline on spending the grant money, many of these projects would likely be slipping into 2018, 2019, and beyond. :huh:
As for the level boarding rule, I think that a mini-high platform qualifies as it does provide level boarding to the ends of 2 cars for those who need it. Amtrak in its ADA compliance reports discusses using mini-highs as an option when full length high level platforms are not allowed due to freight interference. If Northampton will have a mini-high, I would expect that the Greenfield and Holyoke stations will have one also.
George Harris
Engineer
I have trouble understanding what can possibly take so long with what is essentially a rail relay plus tie and surfacing job. The start to finish for this should be measured in a small number of months, not in years. Oh yeah, build some new station platforms. Still don't see how the time can be so long.
I doubt it's the actual work that's taking forever. More likely priorities at state DOT. How has state DOT funding been over the last 10 years (adjusted for inflation, though that's a pretty small adjustment these days)? If their funding has been chopped, well, things start going slower and slower. Then again, never "misunderestimate" the role of incompetence.
Well, it is a $72.8 million dollar project, so it is more than just laying down new ties and CWR tracks. Looking at a draft Environmental Assessment for the Knowledge corridor project from a few years ago, which is not a detailed document, it lists complete replacement of all rail on the main track, passing sidings, and double track, switch upgrades, reactivation of 6 passing sidings, grade crossing and signal system upgrades, bridge repair and improvements as necessary. The scope of the work may have expanded since the EA as they got further into review of what needed to be done.
That said, my impression of Mass DOT and MBTA is that they are not the agencies you would want in charge if you want a project done promptly and quickly. Perhaps in the aftermath of the Big Dig, they are more cautious and very procedural (ie slow) in all their construction projects.
George Harris
Engineer
Oops, I goofed. I was reading about New Haven - Springfield, NOT Springfield - White River Junction.
However, I am not going to simply kill the post. Here it is for informaiton.
Here is a source of information: http://www.nhhsrail.com/stay_informed/faqs.aspx
And on it:
However, I am not going to simply kill the post. Here it is for informaiton.
Here is a source of information: http://www.nhhsrail.com/stay_informed/faqs.aspx
And on it:
There are several other questions answered on it.
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George Harris
Engineer
Second Oops, I goofed post. I was reading about New Haven - Springfield, NOT Springfield - White River Junction.
However, I am not going to simply kill the post. Here it is for informaiton.
As to what is in the project, here is that information: As currently given it is not a model of clarity, so I am breaking it down into two pieces. the first part is that needed for the 2016 start up of service, that is, if I understand it correctly, moving the Vermonter back onto this line.
However, I am not going to simply kill the post. Here it is for informaiton.
As to what is in the project, here is that information: As currently given it is not a model of clarity, so I am breaking it down into two pieces. the first part is that needed for the 2016 start up of service, that is, if I understand it correctly, moving the Vermonter back onto this line.
Part 2, which is not funded, adn not part of moving service back onto the line is:
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WoodyinNYC
Conductor
I assume that Amtrak and the DOTs have been laying low to avoid
stirring up the crazies. They can foam about Obamacare and
let passenger rail sleep like a dog.
Meanwhile, the daily bulletins on the whereabouts -- and possible
whenabouts -- of the ACS-64s have been very comforting. If the
first revenue run slides into December, no worries. I know those
engines are out there. Thanks to all who share this info with us.
WoodyinNYC
Conductor
Great link with lots of info. But isn't this section downstream
from the Knowledge Corridor? I thought that work was north
of Springfield? And due to be finished sooner than the busier,
more complicated New Haven-Hartford-Springfield section.
That is the New Haven to Springfield corridor CT project which is primarily aimed at adding commuter service from NHV to Windsor, then to Springfield. That is a separate (and larger) project from the MA Knowledge Corridor project to restore the rail line north of Springfield to passenger service for the Vermonter and future extensions of the NHV-SPG shuttle.
Looks like the timeline for upgrading the Vermonter route through central New England is:
2012: Completion of track upgrades from the VT border to St. Albans (cutting 28 minutes from the trip time).
Early 2015: re-route of the Vermonter over the "Knowledge corridor" with 3 new stops in with Amherst dropped. Trip time cut by ~25 minutes.
2016: Completion through phase 3A of the station and track upgrades from NHV to Windsor. CT will continue to try to locate funds for Phase 3B track upgrades from Windsor to Springfield. For overview info, see this presentation on the project and Berlin station.
TBD: Extension of the Vermonter to Montreal.
edit: fixed link
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George Harris
Engineer
Note my "Oops I goofed" Edit that said just that. Decided the information could be of sufficient interest that I did not kill the post.
WoodyinNYC
Conductor
I got confused but I'm glad you didn't kill the post.
That site includes a file of press releases and other
updates, the most recent Sept 24, 2013. So somebody
is trying to keep it timely. So thanks again for posting it.
George Harris
Engineer
A map for those that would like to see it.
http://newrailwayreport.blogspot.com/2012/10/upgrades-on-new-england-central-corridor.html
http://newrailwayreport.blogspot.com/2012/10/upgrades-on-new-england-central-corridor.html
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penfrydd
Guest
Just took the Vermonter yesterday, from NYC to BRA. Glad to see that the old Palmer station is being used for something (restaurant). When the new line through Northampton and Greenfield opens, we won't likely have any reason to see the Palmer station (especially now that the casino has been voted down).
One big improvement since my last Amtrak ride, a few years back: better beer! Even if it is $8, at least it's a good IPA!
One big improvement since my last Amtrak ride, a few years back: better beer! Even if it is $8, at least it's a good IPA!
SubwayNut
Conductor
The Lake Shore Limited will still go through Palmer.
And Inland Route Regionals when they are restored. I saw in an article on a $12 billion transportation bond bill for funding projects over the next 5 years that is currently in the MA legislature that it had $175 million reserved for rail projects for NYC/CT to Pittfield, Springfield to Worcester, and Cape Cod service. Since from what I can tell, CT does not have extending the Danbury line to Pittfield in its near or long term plans, most of the $175 million may be available for Springfield to Worcester upgrades.
IIRC, adding a station at Palmer, either a new one or restoration of the former station, is in the MA plans for future Boston to Springfield service. Which may be Amtrak Inland Route regionals followed by limited MBTA service down the road.
Of course, up here in the frozen north, we do a lot of dreaming. We're hoping that the Greenfield station will result in overwhelming demand that eventually results in an east-west route from Pittsfield to Boston, thru the Hoosic tunnel. I've never done the Lake Shore east of SPG, so it never occurred to me that it went through Palmer. I hope they do restore that beautiful station. As far as I can see, it's in a convenient place in town.
SubwayNut
Conductor
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