Turboliners still for sale

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Ok, so let's bottom line here. If say, Georgia wanted to implement intercity service a la Amtrak California ATL-JAX, then how useful would these trainsets be at providing twice daily service? I know only 3 were rebuilt which is two each way twice a day and a spare. What did the rebuild entail? Are the other 4 sets' coaches up to rebuilt standards and just the power cars not up to standard? Could their coaches be spliced into one of the working sets? How much would upgrading the turbine to a more efficient better-accelerating unit cost while maintaining the seating of the power cars? Could these older trains withstand twice-daily service for ~350 miles?

Yes, I am officially the biggest advocator for expanded Georgia Passenger Service!
 
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Ok, so let's bottom line here. If say, Georgia wanted to implement intercity serve a la Amtrak California ATL-JAX, then how useful would these trainsets be at providing twice daily service? I know only 3 were rebuilt which is two each way twice a day and a spare. What did the rebuild entail? Are the other 4 sets' coaches up to rebuilt standards and just the power cars not up to standard? Could their coaches be spliced into one of the working sets? How much would upgrading the turbine to a more efficient better-accelerating unit cost while maintaining the seating of the power cars? Could these older trains withstand twice-daily service for ~350 miles?Yes, I am officially the biggest advocator for expanded Georgia Passenger Service!
Maybe they could sell the hunks of junk for enough to buy a real coach or two.
 
Ok, so let's bottom line here. If say, Georgia wanted to implement intercity service a la Amtrak California ATL-JAX, then how useful would these trainsets be at providing twice daily service? I know only 3 were rebuilt which is two each way twice a day and a spare. What did the rebuild entail? Are the other 4 sets' coaches up to rebuilt standards and just the power cars not up to standard? Could their coaches be spliced into one of the working sets? How much would upgrading the turbine to a more efficient better-accelerating unit cost while maintaining the seating of the power cars? Could these older trains withstand twice-daily service for ~350 miles?Yes, I am officially the biggest advocator for expanded Georgia Passenger Service!
Dude, you don't want them. Ozark Mountain Railcar is, last time I checked, selling a few F40s and some Metra Budd gallery cars. Equip them with comfortable seats and a snack area, and they would make a hell of a lot more sense for Georgia passenger rail.

The Turboliners move under their own power. They do not "work". There is a difference.
 
The RTL's were relatively easy to add cars to as the biggest difference from Amfleet would have been 2 additional cables. The French built RTG's used out of Chicago from 1973 to 1981 used the European buffer system with hook and turnbuckle couplers.
As far as acceleration goes Amtrak went into a fuel conservation mode in 1976 and would only use one powercar for traction. This caused the acceleration to suffer greatly. With two units operating it would be a decent match race.
The RTL's in New york always operated with both turbines on line and were pathetic getting out of stations, adding two cars would probably only have resulted in more turbine failures.

Add to that the extra crew member required on Turboliner (technicial) and the uneconomic fuel hog became amoney drain.
 
I don;t know, I remember watching videos of those things crawl from one station and into the next, barely topping out in between stops.
Yep. That's why one would really need to use these for LD, non-stop, runs. Allow them to (painfully slowly) reach their max speed, and then allow them to steadily cruise at that speed for a long time.
 
Good golly; am I missing something here? If you cut off these fuel guzzling power cars, (and we've established that the cars have normal couplers), why can't they be run with a diesel? I'm sure the Heartland Flyer or Downeaster would welcome re-furbed equipment.
 
Good golly; am I missing something here? If you cut off these fuel guzzling power cars, (and we've established that the cars have normal couplers), why can't they be run with a diesel? I'm sure the Heartland Flyer or Downeaster would welcome re-furbed equipment.
Georgia or Oklahoma service would only work if you can get someone to pay for the A/C...

The Downeaster, I don't know; but I'm guessing the "A/C" is also the heating system, and thus is still a problem.
 
The Turboliners move under their own power. They do not "work". There is a difference.
If they didn't work, then they wouldn't have gotten me from New York City to Albany on-time! And they certainly wouldn't have served from 1976 until the 2000's.
 
Yep. That's why one would really need to use these for LD, non-stop, runs. Allow them to (painfully slowly) reach their max speed, and then allow them to steadily cruise at that speed for a long time.
They would have been perfect for the proposed 2 hour non-stop Albany - NYP express.
 
What did the rebuild entail?
Pretty much new everything. The trains were stripped down to the bare frame, the doors relocated, and everything replaced. Here are a couple of pics from Super Steel during the rebuild:

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?20031022122111646.jpg

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?2003103000540324526.jpg

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?2003102215571813194.jpg

Are the other 4 sets' coaches up to rebuilt standards and just the power cars not up to standard?
There was a fourth trainset that was reportedly 80% - 90% complete. I don't know what it looked like - perhaps these coaches in Scotia, NY are from that set:

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1328404257062038082xcDwRQ

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1328404222062038082LQAdYt

Could their coaches be spliced into one of the working sets?
One could - Super Steel said that the train was designed to handle an additional coach, and there were plans to run the trains as six car sets. Here's a six car Turbo in the pre-rebuild days:

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=38634&nseq=11
 
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I guess they have already tried using the RTL coaches are regular coaches.

01883.jpg
 
The Europeans call this "Hook and Screw" as the handle spins a screw to tighten up the link over the hook. The point of tightening was to have the buffers in compression to some extent.
This form of coupling is a minimally improved Link and Pin, in that it does not need the pins and the link is captive so you can't lose one. There are two major problems with this form of coupling:

1. In case of sudden compression, that is run in of slack in American terms, the link can pop off the hook, so you can have surprise uncouplings.

2. You have get between the car ends to hook the link over the hook, and also to take the link off the hook. A couping that requires a person to get between the cars to couple and uncouple cars was outlawed in the US by the Railway Safety Appliance Act of 1895 (or 1893, I have see both dates in writing.)
Europeans call it "Hook and screw"? Hmmm, 29 years on a railway and speaking English and I have never heard that term, pretty sure the French or Germans wouldn't use that term, as funnily enough English is not generally used in everyday communication!

Screw coupling, yes. Drawhook, yes. Collectively the 'coupling; or 'shackle'.

The compression is not provided by tightening up the screw thread, as that would be hard work, the buffers are compressed when the loco is moved up to the train, and when the brakes are released the coupling will tighten up. Normally you would leave the last 3 threads exposed, so as not to over tighten.

Never ever heard of a screw coupling popping of the shackle, would think it was very rare, yes the old 3 link coupling could do that, but not a screw coupling. Granted, sometimes the screw coupling would break, but even the couplings used in the US break, or do you think they don't?

As for getting between the vehicles, it is safer to use buckeye or knuckle couplers, but how do the air lines, head end supply and train control jumpers get connected? By magic fairies? Or by someone getting between the vehicles?
 
Neil: Only quoting the term I have heard for these things. Yes a man does have to step between the cars to couple the air lines and other lines. Uncoupline all lines except air also requires stepping between cars, but that usually applies only to passenger equipment not to freight. In the case of the air lines, which is all there is on freight equipment and which is left coupled on passenger equipment, when the cut lever at the side of the car is pulled and the cars pulled apart, the air line uncouples itself.

AS to popping off, in the accident refereced that is exactly what happened.

It is beyond me why anyone would still use this completely archaic 19th century device, much less defend its use.

Yes, I have seen these things in use, and it took a while of watching to just comprehend them.
 
It is beyond me why anyone would still use this completely archaic 19th century device, much less defend its use.
Better not look too closely as to how a TGV power car is bolted to the rest of the train, might induce another bout of anti Europeanism from you!

Talking of 19th century archaic devices, how is the single pipe air system and triple valve?
 
..., as funnily enough English is not generally used in everyday communication!
In France, everyday communication on the telephone begins with a very English "Hello". :D

I remember my first time over in France, being warned to not take that "hello" as meaning the person answering the phone understands English.
 
..., as funnily enough English is not generally used in everyday communication!
In France, everyday communication on the telephone begins with a very English "Hello". :D

I remember my first time over in France, being warned to not take that "hello" as meaning the person answering the phone understands English.
Alexander Bell wanted the international telephone greeting to be "Ahoy ahoy!" however "Hello" eventually won out.
 
It is beyond me why anyone would still use this completely archaic 19th century device, much less defend its use.
Better not look too closely as to how a TGV power car is bolted to the rest of the train, might induce another bout of anti Europeanism from you!

Talking of 19th century archaic devices, how is the single pipe air system and triple valve?
My understanding is the fabulous link over the hook system is used between TGV power car and rest of the train. I was once told that use of the AAR style coupler would tranmit too much vibration to the passenger compartment. To avoid further argument my thouths on that rationale I will keep to myself.

The current air reservoir and valve system is well advanced from Westinghouse's original. Single air lines work quite well, thank you.
 
The RTL's in New york always operated with both turbines on line...
That's incorrect. They were sometimes run with only a single turbine, such as when they were used on the Adirondack up to Montreal.
Wrong and one Turbo beeing pulled by that P32acdm was because the turbine failure.

Having operated the RTL's enough to know, they would hardly move with only two axles driven and a very light axle load.
 
I think the Turboliners were actually faster in acceleration. Not sure, though. Diesels aren't known for their ability to generate power quickly.
The Turboliners have enough real faults to consign them to the dustbin of history. No reason to invent more to back up that argument.
The Turbo liners were slower than **** getting out of station, with only lead two axles on each power car powered.
 
Well, fwiw I have read in NYDOT reports that they were operated with a single turbine, and I have an old VHS tape on the Turboliners that I believe confirmed that...I'll have to dig it up.

Edit: See page 2-42 here
 
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Well, fwiw I have read in NYDOT reports that they were operated with a single turbine, and I have an old VHS tape on the Turboliners that I believe confirmed that...I'll have to dig it up.
Edit: See page 2-42 here

and the word is "Reportedly" now question is by who.

And since taskforce members usualy are F** idiots with no working knowledge, I doubt anything the state of New York produces.
 
How does one become a "task force member" anyway? Sounds like you don't have to produce any real results, just write reports making a lot of false promises. Not a bad gig!
 
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