Ticketholder arrested for trespass at NYP

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I was thinking this would already be here:
A refusal to delete photographs results in an arrest for trespassing. I wonder if he would have been trespassing if he had deleted the photos. It seems the nice Amtrak cop decided to administer his own punishment.

http://photos.duanek.name/Amtrak%20Problems

http://www.duanek.name/Amtrak/index.htm
There was a thread on this a while back. Can't find it right off but it had quite a bit of discussion on both sides of what happened.
 
I was thinking this would already be here:
A refusal to delete photographs results in an arrest for trespassing. I wonder if he would have been trespassing if he had deleted the photos. It seems the nice Amtrak cop decided to administer his own punishment.

http://photos.duanek.name/Amtrak%20Problems

http://www.duanek.name/Amtrak/index.htm
I do remember seeing something about this, pics included. I think it was on AU but I don't remember for sure if it was on AU or elsewhere!
 
There was a thread on this a while back. Can't find it right off but it had quite a bit of discussion on both sides of what happened.
Unlikely, as the incident in question occurred on the 21st of Dec. The earlier thread was probably about a different incident.
 
There was a thread on this a while back. Can't find it right off but it had quite a bit of discussion on both sides of what happened.
Unlikely, as the incident in question occurred on the 21st of Dec. The earlier thread was probably about a different incident.
Nope - it was this one - I remember reading it, but I can't find it right off. Maybe someone else remembers.
 
There was a thread on this a while back. Can't find it right off but it had quite a bit of discussion on both sides of what happened.
Unlikely, as the incident in question occurred on the 21st of Dec. The earlier thread was probably about a different incident.
Nope - it was this one - I remember reading it, but I can't find it right off. Maybe someone else remembers.
I believe it started here:

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?...st&p=142664
 
I was thinking this would already be here:
A refusal to delete photographs results in an arrest for trespassing. I wonder if he would have been trespassing if he had deleted the photos. It seems the nice Amtrak cop decided to administer his own punishment.

http://photos.duanek.name/Amtrak%20Problems

http://www.duanek.name/Amtrak/index.htm
to add to this.

on Dec 18th at the Baltimore Amtrak station, with a ticket for a soon to depart Amtrak train, I was ordered off the platform and told to stop taking photos. Now I am well known at this station and the amtrak officer knew me and was polite and even let me grab a few last photos but was adamant that I must leave the platform and remain in the waiting room until my train is called.

He did suggest that if I "Really" wanted some photos that I could go over to the light Rail platform which is considered an "open platform"

now what would have happened if I was not known by the station staff as a regular rider????

Bob
 
on Dec 18th at the Baltimore Amtrak station, with a ticket for a soon to depart Amtrak train, I was ordered off the platform and told to stop taking photos. Now I am well known at this station and the amtrak officer knew me and was polite and even let me grab a few last photos but was adamant that I must leave the platform and remain in the waiting room until my train is called.He did suggest that if I "Really" wanted some photos that I could go over to the light Rail platform which is considered an "open platform"

now what would have happened if I was not known by the station staff as a regular rider????

Bob
Sounds to me like the cop thought that Bob was not supposed to be where he was when he was there - and the pics were merely incidental. Are ticketed pax banned from the platform prior to the train being called? At the old STL Amshack the train was called by Amtrack personnel but at KWD which is staffed by Volunteers, the train is called by non-Amtrak personnel. Does that affect things?
 
I was thinking this would already be here:
A refusal to delete photographs results in an arrest for trespassing. I wonder if he would have been trespassing if he had deleted the photos. It seems the nice Amtrak cop decided to administer his own punishment.

http://photos.duanek.name/Amtrak%20Problems

http://www.duanek.name/Amtrak/index.htm
to add to this.

on Dec 18th at the Baltimore Amtrak station, with a ticket for a soon to depart Amtrak train, I was ordered off the platform and told to stop taking photos. Now I am well known at this station and the amtrak officer knew me and was polite and even let me grab a few last photos but was adamant that I must leave the platform and remain in the waiting room until my train is called.

He did suggest that if I "Really" wanted some photos that I could go over to the light Rail platform which is considered an "open platform"

now what would have happened if I was not known by the station staff as a regular rider????

Bob
You'd have wound up in the Whooz-gow... or the Lynchitentiary? :lol:
 
There was a thread on this a while back. Can't find it right off but it had quite a bit of discussion on both sides of what happened.
Unlikely, as the incident in question occurred on the 21st of Dec. The earlier thread was probably about a different incident.
Nope - it was this one - I remember reading it, but I can't find it right off. Maybe someone else remembers.
I believe it started here:

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?...st&p=142664
OK - I knew I had seen it - but it was a link to OTOL.

Thanks!!!
 
I was thinking this would already be here:
A refusal to delete photographs results in an arrest for trespassing. I wonder if he would have been trespassing if he had deleted the photos. It seems the nice Amtrak cop decided to administer his own punishment.

http://photos.duanek.name/Amtrak%20Problems

http://www.duanek.name/Amtrak/index.htm
Aloha

I originaly posted a link to the OTOL sight where a link to a newspaper story was. Both sites had some discussion including the "chats". A consensus was we needed more information, something is missing, the whole story isn't there. I sent a question to Duane, and all I received back was a E-mail saying thanks for your concern will get keep me updated. So far nothing.

I explored his entire gallery site, and my feeling there is a lot more behind this than either side is saying.

I also tried to find my original thread but couldn't, in a quick look.
 
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on Dec 18th at the Baltimore Amtrak station, with a ticket for a soon to depart Amtrak train, I was ordered off the platform and told to stop taking photos. Now I am well known at this station and the amtrak officer knew me and was polite and even let me grab a few last photos but was adamant that I must leave the platform and remain in the waiting room until my train is called.He did suggest that if I "Really" wanted some photos that I could go over to the light Rail platform which is considered an "open platform"
A policy that access to platforms (or even certain platforms) is controlled strikes me as very different from a policy that access to platforms is free but photography is restricted. The former is very easy to enforce uniformly and fairly, and falls under the aegis of either safety, trespass, or both. The latter allows for lax, variable, or profiled enforcement, and doesn't have any clearly definable logic. It sounds like in Bob's case, the policy may have been the former sort, though it may also have been the latter sort. I'm not familiar with BAL, so I don't feel like I can judge this one very well.

While changing engines on the Crescent at WAS in late December, I took numerous photographs on the platform. Nobody cared, even though I was very clearly taking photographs and even took photographs of train crew, service crew, engineers, etc. Then I took a photo of an Amfleet wheel and a baggage handler or redcap, I forget which, told me politely "photographs of trains are ok, but no photographs of parts of trains". Which strikes me as yet another random non-policy comment from someone just feeling like they should say something. He didn't even stop to chat, he just said it casually while walking past, and it wasn't a big deal at all.

It was just another example of how Amtrak employees aren't given any clear direction about what is and isn't ok, and sometimes make up their own policies and self-determine their own authority to enforce them (or that low-level managers create these things and tell their underlings, which gives the underlings more of a sense that they're real policies). And that doesn't seem to be something Amtrak is taking any steps to control, which just leads to a culture of vigilantism and fear rather than common sense. And while instances like mine are totally insignificant, sometimes this manifests itself in more confusing situations like Bob's, and sometimes in really troubling situations like Patrick's (with Agent Pat).

I suppose, like everything, the only thing to do is write President Boardman, but I don't know how likely it is that vigilante policies will ever be controlled (underlings instructed by vigilante managers will never know the policies are suspect, and photographers who might write letters to Boardman will never know who those managers are, and company-wide training may not change the habits of vigilante managers).
 
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I was thinking this would already be here:
A refusal to delete photographs results in an arrest for trespassing. I wonder if he would have been trespassing if he had deleted the photos. It seems the nice Amtrak cop decided to administer his own punishment.

http://photos.duanek.name/Amtrak%20Problems

http://www.duanek.name/Amtrak/index.htm
Aloha

I originaly posted a link to the OTOL sight where a link to a newspaper story was. Both sites had some discussion including the "chats". A consensus was we needed more information, something is missing, the whole story isn't there. I sent a question to Duane, and all I received back was a E-mail saying thanks for your concern will get keep me updated. So far nothing.

I explored his entire gallery site, and my feeling there is a lot more behind this than either side is saying.

I also tried to find my original thread but couldn't, in a quick look.
I tend to agree that there is a lot more to this story than one incident. I seem to recall that this particular photographer has had problems with police (Amtrak and others) over his rights and he seems to be pushing the issue to get reactions.

As far as someone being ordered off the platform when there is no train in the station, this really differs from station to station. At some locations, the tracks are live freight lines and passengers are not allowed on the platform until the train arrives and annoucements are made - at others there is more freedom to gain access to the platform. It's all common sense. If you want to take a picture, find someone to give you permission and then follow the rules. If you are someplace that you should not be, I am sure someone will let you know - sometimes politely and other times not so politely. I am sure if you question many Amtrak station personnel, they will give you all sorts of stories about railfans wanting to take pictures in the proper way and others being pushy and obnoxious.
 
No, that's the same incident: we're talking about the one GG-1 links to in post 32 in that thread (and which was discussed through the rest of that thread), which is duanek's account of what happened to him on 21 December at New York Penn.
Sorry; I didn't see that (I didn't see the name or place). What's OTOL?
 
I tend to agree that there is a lot more to this story than one incident. I seem to recall that this particular photographer has had problems with police (Amtrak and others) over his rights and he seems to be pushing the issue to get reactions.
Good for him. Seriously.

As far as someone being ordered off the platform when there is no train in the station, this really differs from station to station.
As he reports it, he was arrested for trespassing after refusing to delete his photos. If it were against the law to take pictures, the dude would have been arrested for failure to obey a lawful order. The fact that he was not tells me that the Amtrak cop knew it was legal to take pictures. Again, this is based on the assumption that the photographer's report is accurate.
 
No, that's the same incident: we're talking about the one GG-1 links to in post 32 in that thread (and which was discussed through the rest of that thread), which is duanek's account of what happened to him on 21 December at New York Penn.
Sorry; I didn't see that (I didn't see the name or place). What's OTOL?
On-Track On-Line is another website largely (or solely?) about passenger rail and mass transit, with a sizable focus on Amtrak. I'm not as familiar with it as some folks on this forum who are heavy participants over there, but I keep meaning to find time to read more of their site since I'm always hearing good things about it :)
 
Mahalo

This the original post I made regarding the Photography Arrest. What make you think it is different?
Thank you for comfirming the link I provided was correct. I remember it pretty well since I looked into this guy a little closer suspecting that he was just a cronic complainer and not telling the full story.

What I did conclude though, after I did check him out, is that he is not a complainer and I had no reason to not believe him. I also learned that he appears to be a sincere person that not only stands up for his own rights as a (IIRC) professional photographer but also has other charactoristics that are admirable, specfically his support and efforts for suicide prevention!
 
Over the years. I have taken video of "whole" trains, parts of trains, stations and train crews without any trouble. In fact, I've had crew members go out of their way to narrate and on one trip, an Amtrak District Supervisor riding our train came up to me fascinated by my interest in videoing the train.
 
While changing engines on the Crescent at WAS in late December, I took numerous photographs on the platform. Nobody cared, even though I was very clearly taking photographs and even took photographs of train crew, service crew, engineers, etc. Then I took a photo of an Amfleet wheel and a baggage handler or redcap, I forget which, told me politely "photographs of trains are ok, but no photographs of parts of trains". Which strikes me as yet another random non-policy comment from someone just feeling like they should say something. He didn't even stop to chat, he just said it casually while walking past, and it wasn't a big deal at all.
Interestingly enough, whole trains are made of parts of trains.
 
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