BigBlueBuddha
Service Attendant
Governor Doyle to make announcement tomorrow AM.
Read about it here:
http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/85834502.html
Read about it here:
http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/85834502.html
Talgo selects site in Milwaukee to build trains!
- Thread starter BigBlueBuddha
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I'm so jealous of the states that get the Talgo! What a cool train. I rode a Talgo Pendular in Spain back in the '80's and it was so smooth and lovely.
I hate to put rain on the picnic but I find the Superliner more comfortable thant the Talgo.
On the plus side, bicycle racks! Maybe an AM departure from Portland to Eugene, with a late PM return. The kids going to UO and OSU might be able to get catch a train AFTER classes let out.
On the plus side, bicycle racks! Maybe an AM departure from Portland to Eugene, with a late PM return. The kids going to UO and OSU might be able to get catch a train AFTER classes let out.
Although I haven't ridden a Talgo, I agree on the principle of the bi-levels. That Hiawatha route is posting significant gains almost every year. It is in fact cheaper, (and more fun), for me to take Metra downtown and catch the Hiawatha to General Mitchell Airport in Milwaukee than it is to take a cab 35 minutes to O'Hare, what is the deal with that? I can go round trip to GMA for the price of a cab ride to O'Hare and I get the AGR points! The Talgos can only get to be so long before there is a capacity problem. With bi-level sets the capacity/platform length issues and no height restrictions make it, to me, the better choice.
MikefromCrete
Engineer
The current Hiawathas use five Horizon and/or Amfleet cars, I believe. The Talgo cars are much shorter, so the capacity increase may not be that great.
I believe it has been reported that the Talgos Wisconsin is ordering will have approximately 420 seats, which (I believe) would mean roughly the same number of seats as are currently available on Hiawathas (6 cars x about 70 seats each).
Sounds great until you realize that the capacity is already 420, because (as noted earlier), they have been operating six-car trains for at least a year. Unfortunately, what this means is that, with fixed trainsets, they will never be able to easily expand capacity (unless the place a follow-on order for a few extra cars to be produced at the plant).
So when will the plant open and construction begin? When will I be taking my first ride on the cheesehead talgo? Lol
DaveKCMO
Service Attendant
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all hiawathas are six cars? doesn't the addition of two entirely new trainsets allow more trips, possibly allowing the non-talgo trainsets to become even longer?
while i agree that the talgo may not in and of itself have more capacity, two new trainsets equals more overall capacity for amtrak somewhere in the system.
Kramerica
Service Attendant
The two new Talgo trainsets that Wisconsin purchased last summer will replace the existing two Amtrak trainsets that operate the seven daily round trips. That translates to basically the same capacity as we have now.
As a part of Wisconsin's $800+ million ARRA award for the Madison train, there will be two additional Talgo trainsets purchased, for a total of four trainsets. But those trainsets will be what is needed to simply extend the existing Hiawatha service to Madison. There won't be any additional round trips between Milwaukee and Chicago, so again, there will be no capacity increase. And that's unfortunate since a capacity increase is very much needed. I do hope that instead of lengthening the trains, they increase the number of frequencies. That would be a better public service, IMO.
Kramerica
Service Attendant
Is that in this phase though with the money they now have? I haven't seen anything yet about the actual operations of the extended Hiawatha.
First we do everything that we can to put The Pullman and Budd Companies out of business, then we invite foreign firms to build our passenger trains.
The fact that we have not supported American manufacturers and jobs is resulting in our undoing as a nation. We move all the jobs overseas and then we wonder why there is massive unemployment! Amazing!
The fact that we have not supported American manufacturers and jobs is resulting in our undoing as a nation. We move all the jobs overseas and then we wonder why there is massive unemployment! Amazing!
MattW
Conductor
The problem is that Talgo is still a foreign company with the $$$ still leaving our land. Unless I've horribly forgotten something about international business and commerce, the money won't simply stay in this country "stimulating" us.
The "profit" may not be staying in our country, but Talgo is bringing back to life an abandoned industrial site, they are providing jobs at that site both to fix up the buildings and to build the trains, those workers are now paying taxes instead of collecting unemployment checks, those workers are buying things which further stimulates the economy, Talgo is buying other things manufactured in this country to build the trains, and Talgo is still going to be paying some taxes to both the Fed and the local & state governments.
So ok, we're losing the taxes on the profit, but overall it still sounds like a win win to me. Instead of nothing, we have something.
So ok, we're losing the taxes on the profit, but overall it still sounds like a win win to me. Instead of nothing, we have something.
Joel N. Weber II
Engineer
You also have to remember that while we're shipping some money overseas for the trainsets, the Madison service will probably reduce the number of dollars shipped overseas to buy oil to transport people between Madison and Milwaukee/Chicago.
If the existing Hiawatha sets end up getting broken up to make longer Northeast Regional trainsets, that may also lead to less money being shipped to foreign countries to buy oil for buses and airplanes as people move to trains which between BOS and WAS are powered almost entirely from domestic energy sources via the electric grid. Even if those coaches end up somewhere else where they're hauled by diesel locomotives, they'll still provide a travel option which consumes less fuel per passenger mile than the alternatives used today.
If the existing Hiawatha sets end up getting broken up to make longer Northeast Regional trainsets, that may also lead to less money being shipped to foreign countries to buy oil for buses and airplanes as people move to trains which between BOS and WAS are powered almost entirely from domestic energy sources via the electric grid. Even if those coaches end up somewhere else where they're hauled by diesel locomotives, they'll still provide a travel option which consumes less fuel per passenger mile than the alternatives used today.
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It has been mentioned in a few articles I've read about the project. (Of course, I can't find any of those now, and I too have wondered as I've never seen it in any official plans.)
Yes we do have something but it would certainly be nice to have everything back again. We allow Budd and Pullman to fold and now we sit back and say "well half a loaf is better than none" True, but I want the the missing half serving America too. I am disappointed that we have destroyed so much of industral America. If its not rebuilt, the middle class can expect ever increasing consequences.
Green Maned Lion
Engineer
Budd and Pullman didn't die to foreign competition, though. They died because the market for the products they built disappeared. They, along with ACF and STLCC built all passenger rail products in the US until orders to buy them dried up in the late 70s/early 80s. The current plan for an american rail car is pleasant, I just hope that the ghost of Rader and his goshdurned carbon-steel cars doesn't come to haunt it.
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