Talgo Ferry move

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Navy 118

Navy 118

Train Attendant
Joined
Sep 17, 2006
Messages
49
Location
Grand Rapids, MI (GRR)
Talgo equipment goes from Milwaukee to Beech Grove late Wednesday night as train 960. Two trainsets tied together. 28 cars with two engines back to back. 341(13) will have two extra engines Tuesday for it. A crew will take the two engines to the Talgo facility that night. Train departs facility at 10pm, Milwaukee Depot about 30 minutes later. Chicago around midnight and Indy 6am for a 7am arrival at BEE.
 
What puzzles me though is that tw sets would cover two of the three Wolverines, leaving the third one with the classic set. So they will have multiple types of service on the same route due to equipment availability or lack thereof?
 
The MI RFP specifically called out same equipment type. I can't see Talgo being able to submit a qualifying bid unless they're going to conjure up another trainset from somewhere.
 
RyanS said:
The MI RFP specifically called out same equipment type. I can't see Talgo being able to submit a qualifying bid unless they're going to conjure up another trainset from somewhere.
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My theory (discussed elsewhere) is that Talgo would lease back one or more of the Oregon trainsets, since they are under-utilized at the moment, and will be so until more slots become available in the Cascades corridor in 2017.
 
CHamilton said:
My theory (discussed elsewhere) is that Talgo would lease back one or more of the Oregon trainsets, since they are under-utilized at the moment, and will be so until more slots become available in the Cascades corridor in 2017.
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The problem with that theory is that the Oregon Talgo trainsets have 288 seats versus 397 seats for the Wisconsin Talgos. WI did order 3 spare Talgo cars, but those were a cab car, bistro car and end coach/bicycle car (19 seats), so there are not enough spare cars to cut into an Oregon trainset to match the WI capacity (unless there are spare coach cars in the NW that can be leased for 3 years).
My guess is that if MI leases the 2 trainsets, they will designate 2 of the daily Wolverines as the ones with the new shiny equipment "HSR preview" trains while the third train remains a Horizon train. Or maybe MI wants to add a daily frequency rather than wait 3 years for enough corridor bi-levels to become available. Looking forward to see how this plays out. The Talgos may be at Beech Grove for a while, but in the meantime saving Talgo a bundle on monthly lease payments in WI.

While the move will be at night, hopefully someone will be able to get a video of the doubled up trainset on the move.
 
If Wisconsin had ordered those three extra cars, it's possible they could break down the two sets into smaller trains, then make a third set from them. Of the 14 car set, 3 cars are those specified earlier, which means there are 11 coaches per set as is. Taking 4 coaches per existing set, leaving 7 coaches each, that would allow making the third set with 8 coaches. Each car is like half the capacity of a Horizon car, being half as long, so an 8 Talgo coaches is approximately 4 Horizon coaches. And there's still the three additional cars available per set making each set 10 to 11 cars long, instead of 14.. Of course, doing so doesn't leave any available as spares.

I'm not suggesting this should be done, just that it could be done.
 
It's great to see these trains getting an opportunity to prove themselves in the midwest. Rode these during the CONEG speed tests on the Northeast corridor many years ago and was impressed with the unique technology that allows them to operate faster with hardly any expensive ROW improvements. This a great way to test new high-speed markets.

One criticism of this equipment for me was that they were a bit too narrow, but Talgo is now building a wider (10' 6") model and also claims that their equipment can be updated up to 220 mph.
 
cocojacoby said:
It's great to see these trains getting an opportunity to prove themselves in the midwest.
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This is a ferry move to Beech Grove for the cars to be stored there. Until there is an official announcement on an agreement, it is not a done deal that the 2 WI Talgos trainsets will end up being leased for the Michigan services for the next 3 years. There are many ways for a deal to fall through.
 
My guess is that they are headed to BEE for ITCS installation in the Cab Car and other minor work.
 
Once they get to the south end of CUS and across Lumber Street they will take the NS to CP518, onto the Metra Southwest Sub (former Wabash/C&WI) to 74th Street, then use the BRC for a brief stint to get onto the UP Villa Grove Sub at 81st Street. It takes the UP from 81st to Thornton Jct in Dolton, then the CN and finally CSX the rest of the way to Beech Grove.
 
So, essentially, we can expect it to use the usual routing of in service trains, then, coming through the city and Union Station, rather than routing west around the city, then, I assume.
 
afigg said:
CHamilton said:
My theory (discussed elsewhere) is that Talgo would lease back one or more of the Oregon trainsets, since they are under-utilized at the moment, and will be so until more slots become available in the Cascades corridor in 2017.
Click to expand...
The problem with that theory is that the Oregon Talgo trainsets have 288 seats versus 397 seats for the Wisconsin Talgos. WI did order 3 spare Talgo cars, but those were a cab car, bistro car and end coach/bicycle car (19 seats), so there are not enough spare cars to cut into an Oregon trainset to match the WI capacity (unless there are spare coach cars in the NW that can be leased for 3 years).
My guess is that if MI leases the 2 trainsets, they will designate 2 of the daily Wolverines as the ones with the new shiny equipment "HSR preview" trains while the third train remains a Horizon train. Or maybe MI wants to add a daily frequency rather than wait 3 years for enough corridor bi-levels to become available. Looking forward to see how this plays out. The Talgos may be at Beech Grove for a while, but in the meantime saving Talgo a bundle on monthly lease payments in WI.

While the move will be at night, hopefully someone will be able to get a video of the doubled up trainset on the move.
Click to expand...
A thought here would be if (and i mean IF!) OR/WA were to aquire the Talgos they might be able to do some flexible equipment substution to increase capacity if a particular runs look like they might sell out.
 
afigg said:
My guess is that if MI leases the 2 trainsets, they will designate 2 of the daily Wolverines as the ones with the new shiny equipment "HSR preview" trains while the third train remains a Horizon train. Or maybe MI wants to add a daily frequency rather than wait 3 years for enough corridor bi-levels to become available. Looking forward to see how this plays out. The Talgos may be at Beech Grove for a while, but in the meantime saving Talgo a bundle on monthly lease payments in WI.
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I'm really hoping for this option.

Also, like fairviewroad, I had this crazy image of the Talgos on an actual ferry ship.
 
RyanS said:
Interesting note in there that Talgo was the only respondent to the Michigan RFP.
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The list of US companies or operators which have passenger cars available which are certified for 110 mph, push-pull operation, meet Amtrak requirements, are ADA compliant, have business class seating, a cafe or bistro car, and are either built new or refurbed & overhauled in the last 5 years is rather short. Amtrak could have offered Amfleets, but Amtrak does not have many of those to spare.

Would be interested to learn what Amtrak's management really thinks about MiDOT possibly leasing the Talgos for the next 3 years and not paying for the Horizons. On the other hand, if MIDOT does lease the Talgos, it frees up Horizon equipment for increased service frequencies on other Midwest routes or for use on the 2 new corridor services in IL while waiting for all the corridor bi-levels to be delivered.
 
afigg said:
On the other hand, if MIDOT does lease the Talgos, it frees up Horizon equipment for increased service frequencies on other Midwest routes or for use on the 2 new corridor services in IL while waiting for all the corridor bi-levels to be delivered.
Click to expand...
It's mere speculation, but I've also been suspicious that Amtrak may be eyeing the Horizons for a refurbishment and conversion to long-distance service. Every last one of the eastern long-distance trains could do with more coaches, and the Horizons are the only likely source in the short term.
 
Just a quick note afigg; Michigan's Department of Transportation is MDOT, not MIDOT; which is a private corporation.

peter
 
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