Superliner replacement

[RichardK]

In March of last year Amtrak issued their Version 3.1 Fleet Strategy, in which it was expressed the need for 508 new bi-level cars. Does anyone know what the state of that request is, considering the current funding situation in Washington?

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

Well, the fleet plan is just that, a plan. The only bilevels that are being ordered currently are 130 *think California car* style cars for use in Illinois/Michigan/a few going to Cali service.

If you are talking Superliner 3's, those may be a long way off. Amtrak needs to *and is in the process of* replacing the Viewliners first.

Also, welcome to AU, I hope you are finding everything ok so far.

Anthony

 

[afigg]

Not a simple question nor one to answer. Amtrak has not submitted a formal request for funding for large rolling stock purchases. Congress has passed a continuing resolution, with a lot of adjustments, for the FY2013 budget to cover the remainder of the FY. Where Amtrak's funding ended up at, is not clear, but I think Amtrak got funded at FY2012 amounts minus a 5% or 6% sequestration. The budget battle now moves on to the FY2014 appropriations. But the Administration and Amtrak have not released their FY2014 requests. Amtrak may have funding requests for rolling stock purchases in it. Getting large amounts of funding for rolling stock will be a difficult process with the current House, even though the Republicans are showing cracks all over the place in their facade while making a lot of noise in my opinion.

Getting back to the Superliners, they wee not at the top of the v3.1 fleet strategy plan for replacements. Amfleet II replacements were next. The proposed Acela II purchase looks to be moved to the top of the priority list when the next version of the Fleet Strategy plan is released. There is now a contract to build 130 corridor bi-level cars for the Midwest and California with deliveries through 2017. That provides Amtrak with a manufacturing base to tap for Superliner IIIs, based on the new standard bi-level cars, if Amtrak can get some funding in the next 4 years.

 

[RichardK]

Yes, I am talking primarily the Superliner III's. They don't seem to be in that bad of shape. I know there are many other priorities, but that is what I ride out of Dallas.

Thanks for the welcome.

I have been reading the forum for several months and just decided to join. Lots of good information and discussion here.

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

Amtrak recently refurbished *or are still in the process of* refurbishing the Superliners to keep them going until they can order the SL-3's, so you will be riding the current equipment for a few more years at least.

 

[RichardK]

My understanding is that those 130 bi-level cars are primarily to be used for the high speed rail initiatives in the midwest. Correct?

 

[Amtrak Cajun]

Yes, and a few of them are being sent to California as well.

 

[PRR 60]

My understanding is that those 130 bi-level cars are primarily to be used for the high speed rail initiatives in the midwest. Correct?

The cars will be owned by the states and are exclusively for the midwest and California state-funded services.

 

[afigg]

My understanding is that those 130 bi-level cars are primarily to be used for the high speed rail initiatives in the Midwest. Correct?

88 of the bi-levels are going to Illinois, Michigan, Missouri for use on all of the corridor routes in those states, not just the two 110 mph corridors. And to Iowa City if Iowa decides to take the funds for the service extension to Iowa City. 42 of the bi-levels are going to California. There are funds leftover as the bid came in low, so it is likely that more bi-level cars will be ordered by exercising options in the contract. CA is a good bet to order more bi-levels to support service expansion - Coast Daylight for one.

 

[Texan Eagle]

My understanding is that those 130 bi-level cars are primarily to be used for the high speed rail initiatives in the midwest. Correct?

Just rail. No high speed. They will run on corridor services at same or just slightly better speeds as seen currently, no drastic improvement.

 

[jis]

My understanding is that those 130 bi-level cars are primarily to be used for the high speed rail initiatives in the midwest. Correct?

Just rail. No high speed. They will run on corridor services at same or just slightly better speeds as seen currently, no drastic improvement.

Being more specific 110mph instead of 79 on the St' Louis - Chicago and the Chicago - Detroit corridors. Same old 79mph elsewhere.A sfor whether it is a drastic improvement or not that is a matter of personal opinion.

 

[afigg]

Being more specific 110mph instead of 79 on the St' Louis - Chicago and the Chicago - Detroit corridors. Same old 79mph elsewhere.A sfor whether it is a drastic improvement or not that is a matter of personal opinion.

As jis knows, the trip time reductions for the Chicago to St. Louis and Chicago to Detroit corridors should be around 45 minutes to 1 hour, maybe a little more when all the funded improvements are in place. Both corridors will be short of the ultimate circa 4 hour trip time goal, as more follow-on work & the funds for them is needed. But I consider a 1 hour trip time reduction with 110 mph segments for both quite respectable improvements.
New bi-level coach cars with modern designs & touches will be a big plus as well. We should see ridership on both of those services grow substantially over the next 4-5 years.

 

[Blackwolf]

New bi-level coach cars with modern designs & touches will be a big plus as well. We should see ridership on both of those services grow substantially over the next 4-5 years.

Not to mention, the added capacity these cars provide; one of these cars hold more people in comfort than the current Amfleet/Horizon equipment. Also add in the better winter reliability, since all electrical/plumbing/pneumatic equipment is shielded in their own compartments above the trucks instead of hanging beneath on the car frame. Lastly, the cars (and the locomotives which are coming as part of the same project) will be state-owned and not subject to Amtrak's overall national fleet issues.

All huge pluses to what is in place now. Speed is only a slice of a much larger pie for gaining ridership.

 

[MikeM]

Amtrak recently refurbished *or are still in the process of* refurbishing the Superliners to keep them going until they can order the SL-3's, so you will be riding the current equipment for a few more years at least.

I know Amtrak did a big project prior to the current president where most of the Superliner-I's were redone, so sleepers got new bathrooms, upgraded wall treatments, and new carpets/drapes/cushions. But I'm not aware of this being an ongoing project. I've ridden in some of the S-II, where the flooring in the lower entrance is original and badly worn/buckled, and the bathrooms are all original. The S-II's are the most prone to toilet malfunctions at altitude on Raton Pass. If anyone knows specifics on a ongoing rebuild project, would love to hear about it, but other than the few TIGER rebuilds of bad wreck damaged cars, I don't know of any other rebuilds in recent time other than normal maintenance. But I'd love to be wrong.

 

[Amtrak George]

Superliner Bedrooms: I wonder if anyone at Amtrak has considered a redesign of the berths in the bedrooms? If they changed the upper berth to be parallel to the direction of travel, next to the window (and let the lower remain in its current spot, with that person's feet being "under the upper"),

then the upper could be designed with more headroom. Right now the ceiling is awfully close and you can't sit up.

We can't handle the claustrophic upper berth in Superliners, so such a change would help a lot. Of course, it might throw a monkey wrench in the ability to open two rooms ensuite.

 

[saxman]

So who owns the Superliners that are being used in California right now? Are there any plans to return these to the LD fleet, once the bi-levels are received? I've seen that many have been painted in California colors though, or at least the wrap.

 

[Blackwolf]

So who owns the Superliners that are being used in California right now? Are there any plans to return these to the LD fleet, once the bi-levels are received? I've seen that many have been painted in California colors though, or at least the wrap.

The Superliners are still owned by Amtrak, regardless of their current livery. They are on a lease to CalTrans which is supposed to expire in 2015, though I imagine they will extend this lease until the new cars on order show up from Illinois. Then they head back to Beechgrove and are returned to standard Amtrak Superliner LD coaches again.

 

[AKA]

Welcome aboard, RichardK

 

[D.P. Roberts]

Which midwest corridors are going up to 110 mph? Just Chicago-St. Louis and Chicago-Detroit? I had heard that Amtrak bought some of the track in southwest Michigan to speed up some routes, but I haven't heard when they're going into effect.

As for the Superliner 3 - it sure doesn't seem like those could happen any time soon. However, has Amtrak had any design work done for what they would like to see? I know we all have suggestions for improvements to the current fleet, but I'm curious as to whether Amtrak has submitted any designs or ideas.

 

[AlanB]

If you are talking Superliner 3's, those may be a long way off. Amtrak needs to *and is in the process of* replacing the Viewliners first.

Amtrak isn't in the process of replacing the existing Viewliners. Amtrak is busy supplementing the existing Viewliner flight. Some of the new Viewliners are going to replace the Heritage fleet, which will finally be retired after more than 60 years of service.

 

[battalion51]

The existing Viewliner fleet will be going through significant overhauls as the new sleepers come on line, but those shells aren't even 20 years old yet, they've got a lot of life left in them.

 

[AlanB]

Amtrak recently refurbished *or are still in the process of* refurbishing the Superliners to keep them going until they can order the SL-3's, so you will be riding the current equipment for a few more years at least.

I know Amtrak did a big project prior to the current president where most of the Superliner-I's were redone, so sleepers got new bathrooms, upgraded wall treatments, and new carpets/drapes/cushions. But I'm not aware of this being an ongoing project. I've ridden in some of the S-II, where the flooring in the lower entrance is original and badly worn/buckled, and the bathrooms are all original. The S-II's are the most prone to toilet malfunctions at altitude on Raton Pass. If anyone knows specifics on a ongoing rebuild project, would love to hear about it, but other than the few TIGER rebuilds of bad wreck damaged cars, I don't know of any other rebuilds in recent time other than normal maintenance. But I'd love to be wrong.

There is no ongoing program to do a major overhaul/refurbishment of the Superliner cars. Amtrak did most, although not all, of the Superliner I sleepers. And even within that group, some of the earlier cars in the program did not get the full treatment that the latter cars got.

 

[AlanB]

Superliner Bedrooms: I wonder if anyone at Amtrak has considered a redesign of the berths in the bedrooms? If they changed the upper berth to be parallel to the direction of travel, next to the window (and let the lower remain in its current spot, with that person's feet being "under the upper"),then the upper could be designed with more headroom. Right now the ceiling is awfully close and you can't sit up.

We can't handle the claustrophic upper berth in Superliners, so such a change would help a lot. Of course, it might throw a monkey wrench in the ability to open two rooms ensuite.

George,

Sadly that idea wouldn't increase headroom, but rather would decrease it marginally. The upper bed in the roomette has slightly less headroom than the upper bed in a Bedroom because of the curve of the car ceiling and the need to clear the both the window and still be above seat backs on the lower combo bed/seat.

And while it wouldn't affect the ability to do a two room suite, it would prevent one from opening the bathroom door once the bed is down.

 

[AlanB]

So who owns the Superliners that are being used in California right now? Are there any plans to return these to the LD fleet, once the bi-levels are received? I've seen that many have been painted in California colors though, or at least the wrap.

The Superliners are still owned by Amtrak, regardless of their current livery. They are on a lease to CalTrans which is supposed to expire in 2015, though I imagine they will extend this lease until the new cars on order show up from Illinois. Then they head back to Beechgrove and are returned to standard Amtrak Superliner LD coaches again.

Well in order to extend the lease, Amtrak and Caltrans would have to agree on an amount for Caltrans to pay. The original deal was that Caltrans paid to fix up several wrecked Superliner coaches and in return got X years lease on the cars. They've now gotten their value back in the use of those cars, so new terms would need to be arranged to continue any lease.

 

[AlanB]

Which midwest corridors are going up to 110 mph? Just Chicago-St. Louis and Chicago-Detroit? I had heard that Amtrak bought some of the track in southwest Michigan to speed up some routes, but I haven't heard when they're going into effect.

Actually that was the State of Michigan that just brought about 100 miles of track from NS. The State in turn will essentially lease the track to Amtrak, who in turn will make the needed improvements to bring it up to 110 MPH creating over 200 miles of 110 MPH RR across most of the State of Michigan between Detroit and the western connection to Indiana. The state just took possession of the track a few months ago IIRC.