Superliner Lounge: the obnoxious garbage can and galley

[Bierboy]

There are perverts travelling by rail? No way....

 

[PerRock]

I hate the idea of dimming the lights upstairs and forcing night owls into the lower level. I am a woman. I travel alone. Upstairs I am somewhat protected from perverts by the fact there are people around (lounge lizards) and the conductor or someone might walk through at any moment. There are multiple exits. Not so much on the lower level.

The lights are allrreaddy dimmed at night ..... Iam not shure If you are aware of this.....
I dont see how opening up the downstairs forces you to go there,..your seat has plennty of space to call your own

As allwas it appears some one being lazy at there job is the where the buck stops..... so due to a lazy LSA we need to be kept out of the downstairs .

Here is the idea http://www.123dapp.com/123D_Design/Super-rough-superliner-Idea/3411635

Somewhat similar to what I was thinking. Getting rid of the tables doesn't mean a concession to the lounge seats, just give us a half medium. I'll try a render up what I had in mind tonight.

Peter

 

[chakk]

I suspect Amtrak will not be willing to add more electrical outlets to the lounge cars specifically because they do NOT want to provide more incentive to passengers to camp out all day (and night) in the lounge car. It's a shared space for the enjoyment of all passengers.

 

[spacecadet]

Back to the tables again, I can see the need for some tables but I just feel that the cafe car-style seating discourages full usage. There are many people who *don't* want to sit with strangers in that kind of setup - I personally don't mind sitting next to a stranger in the lounge area, but in the booths it's a little close for potentially a long period of time. And if you end up not liking the person next to you, you really have no choice but to give up your seat and leave.

This is not really an issue in the lounge area, since the seats are a little more casual and further apart. It's easier to just ignore someone if you don't want to talk to them.

In cars I've ridden that use this layout, I've rarely seen the booths very well used even when the rest of the car is full, because I think a lot of people instinctively feel a booth is "taken" if they see two people in it.

As I recall, the old SSL setup did have some tables in between some of the chairs. But if a person needs a full table, there are many designs I can think of better than just sticking a bunch of booths in one end of the car. For example, Amtrak's own Hi-Level lounge of the 1970's: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Lounge_car_1974.gif

Or the lounge area of the great dome, which is somewhat different than the SSL layout: http://www.travelandleisure.com/images/media/0001/2626/201409-hd-amtrak-dome-car-interior.jpg

This lets multiple people sit together, but allows single people or couples to share a table with others without feeling like they're encroaching on anyone's personal space. It *allows* for conversation between strangers, but doesn't force it. Consequently, it doesn't discourage anyone from sitting in any empty seat.

As for the lounge lizards, I have been one before when I've ridden coach. Most of them are people who have gotten really unlucky with their coach seats for one reason or another. For example, on one train I rode, I saw a guy sleeping in the lounge who I knew was seated directly in front of a car door that wouldn't stay closed in the dead of an Empire Builder winter. Another guy was sleeping in the lounge because he was seated in front of a family with kids who were playing "fort" behind him at 2AM, and had openly stated that they had no plans to sleep before their stop at 5AM. In all cases where I've seen people sleeping in the lounge, the attendants either said nothing or actively encouraged it, because they knew the situation these people were in.

I can't remember why I slept in the lounge the one time I did, but I'm sure it had something to do with noise (which I'm very sensitive to). The lounge is always very quiet at night.

 

[SarahZ]

I suspect Amtrak will not be willing to add more electrical outlets to the lounge cars specifically because they do NOT want to provide more incentive to passengers to camp out all day (and night) in the lounge car. It's a shared space for the enjoyment of all passengers.

Many of the SSL cars I've been in lately have had additional outlets added along the seat rows, under the windows.

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

Here is My take on the outlets . the bar stools are NOT comfy. this prevents one to really abuse it .

the outets are not just ac 120 but USB . Why must every person have there own 120V to 5V USB cube.

just pop in a 20 A 5V brick under the table and have protected 2A ports per user . this way you dont HOG the 120V duplex outlets to charge a dinky phone or tablet .. now the longgg bars at the window edge on the SSL is spaced so wide it does not matter how big the birck is ....... I just remember the time We only had that dinky quad outlet at the upper wet bar and with the poor dementions of chargers one could annex a the entire quad with a single motorola charger ! .. I kid you not!

so I am just doing what many indisrys are doing in cafes and the like .

also QI is a really good standard to add to the end of the desks.. wireless NON hogging charing .

 

[zephyr17]

I suspect Amtrak will not be willing to add more electrical outlets to the lounge cars specifically because they do NOT want to provide more incentive to passengers to camp out all day (and night) in the lounge car. It's a shared space for the enjoyment of all passengers.

The Sightseer Lounges I rode in in December (Coast Starlight, Southwest Chief, Empire Builder) already had been retrofitted with electrical outlets at regular intervals beneath the windows. That ship has already sailed.

 

[andersone]

I remember using a an Apple ][ on the CZ in 1983 when there were only four outlets in the middle of the lounge car. I had this little lightweight 9 inch green monitor. Folks couldn't believe a computer on the train. One time I broke a disk drive door and learned that Russian Hill was really a hill when I walked up it to get if fixed. I even had an "apple sack" to carry it. To think what I might have become had I a tablet in those days,,, so my proposal is the more outlets the merrier !!

 

[mjaynes288]

The lights are allrreaddy dimmed at night ..... Iam not shure If you are aware of this.....

I dont see how opening up the downstairs forces you to go there,..your seat has plennty of space to call your own

I know the lights are dimmed in coach. That is why I am in the SSL. I have only seen the lights dimmed in the SSL once. I hated it. I like to do Sudoku books or cross-stitch late at night. The little spotlight is does not give off enough light and my head and hands tend to get in the way. Those travel lights don't work when my hand blocks them. If the lights are dimmed in the upper level I would be forced to make the decision between straining my eyes, staring at the trees going by through my reflection in the window or go downstairs. I do not care if they open the downstairs as long as I can keep doing my Sudoku on upper level which requires significant amount of light.

 

[Guest TT]

Thanks for the thoughts and ideas on this thread. However, can we get some feedback from fellow SSL fans?

It appears that Amtrak may have a reason for keeping the upstairs bar/galley, perhaps it is useful on some routes for special purposes.

What about the monster garbage can positioned right in the middle of the prime viewing and seating area? From your recollection of seeing the

big square five-foot-tall box, should the SSL have a garbage can (that) size and in the middle of prime seating and viewing area?

If you'd like to suggest that the garbage can be moved somewhere else and possibly be downsized, do you have any suggestions?

 

[OBS]

I have worked trains where the refrigerators in the upstairs galley were needed for food storage by either the lounge or the diner due to inadequate facilities elsewhere...

 

[VentureForth]

Are we going back full circle to the beginning of the thread again? The monster garbage cans are required so that the crew only has to empty the trash once per trip, as opposed to once an hour. It's also needed to keep riff raff from going downstairs at night.

I don't mean to sound snarky, but I really DO believe those are the REAL reasons why they exist.

 

[rrdude]

Adding outlets is being done, albeit late, but when they go in for major work, they usually get add'l outlets. While I am "fan" of the upstairs galley, (worked it on several trips as a kid, when Amtrak staffed summer trains with extra help) I like Peter's idea of a "charging station".

I myself have moved that horrible gigantic garbage receptacle over-and-into the galley more than a few times, to open up the "view" of from the ceiling-to-floor window X from where I am sitting.

Last trip on the Cap, my co-worker an I also used timetables taped over the ceiling lights, to reduce the inside glare, so we could see out at night. I firmly believe the floor safety lights are plenty bright enough to see your way. (We removed them in the AM. Another reason to bring a swatch of duct tape!) Staff walked thru several times, looked up, and kept walking. I do NOT advise this tho... just me.

I believe tables ARE needed, for families, for card playing, for personal food consumption, for board games, for laptops. I would not object at all if when replacing table-tops, some simple verbiage were embedded on the table top, to be "prepared to share" would also like to see chess/checkers board embedded on table(s).

If we are dreaming, would also love to see flat screens at each end of the SSL, with a live video feed from a camera mounted on the front of the locomotive. Of course if they did that, Amtrak would have to provide an on-board EMT with a defib or two, and extra underwear, as the actual number of close car-locomotive collisions would have most pax grabbing their chest, or crapping their pants!

 

[VentureForth]

...would also like to see chess/checkers board embedded on table(s).

This is already done in the sleepers (at least the roomettes). But alas, no where to get chess/checker pieces.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

...would also like to see chess/checkers board embedded on table(s).

This is already done in the sleepers (at least the roomettes). But alas, no where to get chess/checker pieces.

Potato chips and crackers from the lounge?

 

[Bierboy]

...would also like to see chess/checkers board embedded on table(s).

This is already done in the sleepers (at least the roomettes). But alas, no where to get chess/checker pieces.

BYOP...

 

[Larry H.]

The real problem is probably the table seating. I literally just wrote in another thread that there's rarely a lack of seats in the lounge cars, before remembering that the last time I rode in one was actually before its refurbishment. Nowadays SSL's are set up like an old Amfleet lounge car, which, if experience in other similar cars (like those old lounges and the Great Dome) is anything to go by, means half the seating is probably often wasted because couples take up all four table seats. Someone correct me if I'm wrong about that, but this is a fairly common Amtrak seating arrangement that I've always thought was terrible for just this reason. It makes no sense to me that Superliner lounges should be copying the horrible Amfleet lounges, which are only laid out the way they are because they're single level cars out of necessity.

The old SSL layout had full lounge seating upstairs and table seating downstairs. I don't really understand why they changed this.

The problem isn't the amfleet car so much as it is the inability to think out of the box and create truly 21 century attractive lounges. The heyday of railroads showed marvelous attention to detail and styling. The Amfleet so called lounges on the Lake Shore were and perhaps still are a total disappointment. It looked like a shut down diner and with no interest what so ever. It all part of the idea that hauling passengers now is a favor we should be grateful to spend thousands on without the thought of having equal surroundings. Just give us the money and shut up seems to be the process that wins now.

 

[Larry H.]

Ok back to trash cans. They are a wonderful example of the "do it your self" mentality of nearly all am track service now days. I personally hate the large trash cans they put in the sleepers near the jog to the bedrooms. If designed properly they could have been concealed behind a panel with a swing out door so they could be emptied. Same could apply to the lounge. Some sort of counter or slight extension of space near a door could have held a concealed trash can on either side of the aisle. I don't recall that when the lounges or sleepers were new that they depended on huge trash cans in the aisle as they do now but maybe they did. Again it simply goes back to basic design which am track has never been very good at.

 

[TT]

Based upon some good feedback, it appears that:

• The tables are a welcome touch to the upper SSL. People are being blocked from using the downstairs at night to suit a crew requirement. It seems the only table "barrier", is when a big guy hogs the table or straddles two seat spaces.
• The galley is used sometimes and might be needed in the future; plus it will possibly cost money to remove it.
• The monster garbage can is meant to hold all the trash from "Chicago to LA" without removal by crew. However, It seems that the garbage can is taking up valuable space and trashing the view through 2 or 3 sets of windows. Also, someone has to remove a big, heavy bag and drag it down the narrow vestibule stairs at the end of the trip.

Why not put the monster can downstairs (where it is easier to empty the can) and where it doesn't take up prime space upstairs, which enables more seating and better viewing?

A garbage receptacle could be created upstairs in an easily seen location with a poop-shoot duct running down from upstairs into the top of the monster can. This could be done by running a common residential heating duct down through a slot in the floor and cutting a hole in the top of the monster can. A logical place for such an upstairs receptacle is next to the galley.

The prime viewing space in the SSL near the galley and garbage can has been taken and blocks a major part of the windows in the seating area. Here are some points:

• Isn't maximizing customer comfort and appeal what is should be achieved and important in the SSL?
• If a customer is uncomfortable or cant find a place to sit in the SSL, is there a chance that they wont buy refreshments from the café attendant? (I already know from hearing passenger complaints, that some passengers DONT buy anything from the café, become frustrated and just return to the coach or sleeper.)

So, let's put a dollar value on it. Because the seating is limited, much money is Amtrak LOOSING by not maximizing the customer experience and comfort in the SSL?

 

[TT]

My apologies, the last sentence of my above post should read:

Because the seating is limited, HOW much money is Amtrak loosing by not maximizing the customer experience and comfort in the SSL?

 

[Bus Nut]

TT, I like the idea of vertical garbage but I wonder what happens when somebody dumps a drink in there or something that breaks the liner or maybe something valuable they didn't mean to drop?

The Hi-Level Lounge looks amazing, much better than today's SSL. They should go back to something like that. The tables and barstools are a good idea for eating food and checking devices, maybe not so great if you are traveling with others and want to hang out. But the comments everyone has made about booths are valid. They seem silly on a lounge car.

 

[tonys96]

. But the comments everyone has made about booths are valid. They seem silly on a lounge car.

EVERYONE does not think they are silly. No, not at all. There are many posts saying they serve a useful purpose in this thread, should you choose to read the entire thread.

 

[firstcultural]

There's one possible reason for the temporary nature of the trash can - it allows flexibility to add in recycling in the future. Most of the California trains have recycling on board, unfortunately, it's a mess, as there's not a lot of consistency between the recycling programs in all the cities that the train stops at.

 

[rrdude]

I know there are a lot of good people at Amtrak, who really WANT to recycle, and move that program ahead, but until they stop using disposable, PLASTIC dinerware in the diners, I feel that Amtrak is just paying lip service to recycling.

Agree with other posters, recycling is haphazard at best. Some do, some don't, and those that do, usually only do cans/bottles.

Like I said, I'm a huge fan/advocate of recycling, but Amtrak earns only a C-, or D in my book. (overall, not route specific)

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I know there are a lot of good people at Amtrak, who really WANT to recycle, and move that program ahead, but until they stop using disposable, PLASTIC dinerware in the diners, I feel that Amtrak is just paying lip service to recycling.

And from what I have seen, even though the Plastic Ware can be recycled, it usually just gets heaved in with the general trash.