Sunset to Miami

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Guest_Chris

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Why did Amtrak cut the Sunset back from Miami? Was it due to lack of ridership or because the trains couldn't be turned around in time? Is there any intention of bringing it back?
 
Stanford has a maintenance shop to service the Amtrak trainset while Miami, futher east, doesn't. Once the passengers have been dropped off, the trainset has to return back to Stanford for service. Other reason is the arrival time is very late and can't make up the lost time before riding back west after servicing.
 
Well there is a service base in Miami too. However the cutback did have something to do with the service bases. SFD was setup to deal with Superliner cars, while Miami or technically Hialeah, was more geared to single level cars.

Then add the fact that there at the time were already 3 other trains that ran to Miami, the delays that the Sunset was encountering, low ridership numbers, and probably some protesting by CSX. All that lead to the cutback to my knowledge.
 
The conversion of AT to Superliners was a major reason IIRC. When the Sunset was extended to MIA AT was still using single level equipment, and the train created a connection from one major West Coast city to another East Coast major (many consider MIA, LA, and NYC the big three). As the years went on the Sunset into MIA became more of a nuisance due to habitual tardiness and issues within Hialeah. To wash the trainset before it headed out in the morning they would have to run through the Tri-Rail wash rack which is built for Double Deckers, which Amtrak's is not. Once AT came online with its Superliners it made good sense to cut back to Sanford since the train could be serviced overnight with Techs that only work on Superliners, and only have one train to service, whereas MIA had three others at the time. It also created a way for AT to be able to send out cars and engines for PM without having to stop a train en route. When the cut was first made it was cut from MIA to SFD. Ridership numbers dropped severely due to the loss of the ORL stop. After a few months it was extended back to ORL with a deadhead move from ORL to Stanton Connection (10 miles south) a trip around the wye, and 35 miles back north to the yard for servicing. The crews layover there, the train is serviced, and it makes a similar deadhead move the next morning.
 
So maybe it was cut back because of the late trains? Maybe that was a reason for lack of ridership as well; a late Sunset into Miami would make it arrive in the middle of the night. If it ran close to schedule, would Amtrak extend it back?
 
Well I believe the schedule was different than it is now, but I don't have any timetables to back me up on that. But I do believe it arrived in MIA around 8 or 9.
 
When the Sunset schedule reverts back to its old form (arrive Orlando around 3 and depart the next day around 7), perhaps it is a good idea to extend it back. Right now the train idles at Stanford for over 24 hours, which wastes the equipment. Plus there is no connection to Miami. However the demand might not warrant it I guess. But question is- would Amtrak do it still if the Sunset ran more on time, and would it be a good idea?
 
Guest_Chris said:
When the Sunset schedule reverts back to its old form (arrive Orlando around 3 and depart the next day around 7), perhaps it is a good idea to extend it back. Right now the train idles at Stanford for over 24 hours, which wastes the equipment. Plus there is no connection to Miami. However the demand might not warrant it I guess. But question is- would Amtrak do it still if the Sunset ran more on time, and would it be a good idea?
Click to expand...
I doubt the Sunset schedule will ever revert back to its "old form" (as described in your message). If/when it goes back to Orlando, it will likely (as much as possible, anyway) go back to its most recent (pre-Katrina) schedule of an 8:45 pm arrival and 1:45 pm departure the next day. It didn't idle at Sanford (no t) for 24 hours. The overnight layover was closer to 15 hours, if on time (which it rarely was).
 
It seems like with the way the train runs they need all the time they can get. Many nights the train has several cars that have to go down to the pit for wheels, and the T&E has to get rested. Also don't forget some time has to be allowed for the deadhead move. Assuming the train pulls from ORL at 9 (after detraining PAX's and bags) it takes about 10 minutes to run down to Stanton, then about 10 to run around the wye (since they have to cut off the engine, run it around, and attach on the rear), then once they get back on the road it's about an hour before they're in the yard, so even with an on time arrival the trainset is put away around 10:30 or so, at the earliest. Many times once the train is in DH mode it will get held for CSX freight trains (like Intermodals Q188 & Q177, Rack Q237, Manifest Q455, Q456, and all the K9 trains). It can be a long task just to go the 55 road miles it is from ORL to the yard.
 
The turn-around time for the next day's departure really is an issue. Not infrequently, when the train is running significantly late, they just pull it directly into Auto-Train in SANFORD (as someone else pointed out, there is no T in that town's name - Stanford is in California) and then bus the passengers to Winter Park and Orlando. Most of the time that they do that I suspect it is because otherwise the crew would go on the law before getting the train back to Sanford. We were on P002 one night when they did terminate at Sanford and they took us to WPK by bus. That time we got into Sanford around 2 AM if I remember correctly. It was close to 3 AM before we got to WPK and our vehicle, and we then dropped off one of the other passengers at a local hotel from there to save her the cab fare.
 
The service to Miami was cut in late 1997, at which time the terminus was Sanford. Six months later the terminus was changed to Orlando to better serve that city.

If you do a Google search with the words "Sunset Limited," "Miami", "service" (use the quotation marks), you will find out that thhe number of hours traveled often necessitated a final crew change between Sanford and Miami. Since the ridership during those last few hours was sparse, the last leg was cut to save that extra crew change.
 
Chatter, I did the search and couldn't find the info listed. Would you mind giving us a direct link to the info?
 
Another thought...

Why does Amtrak (when the SUNSET runs to Orlando) provide a Thruway motorcoach connection between Orlando and the Tampa Bay area (Lakeland, Tampa, Pinellas/St. Pete), and not to points south? I realize that they had to break the rail connections between the SUNSET and the Silver Service trains due to timekeeping issues, but wouldn't a bus connection at least tap the market between the Gold Coast and New Orleans and points west?

The answer I am afraid, might be because the provider of the service, Martz Tampa Bay, is located in the Tampa Bay Area.
 
Well Martz provides service for the other trains as well. I think the reasoning is ridership numbers and time. The buses for Silver Service typically only carry a handful of passengers past TPA (or at all as is the case with the Star). With the Sunset it would be a very late night arrival (assuming 002 is on time) into destinations like Ft. Myers. I'd suspect they'd have to pay a premium for drivers past a certain time, and it's just not worth it for those few people.
 
Here is what the Sunset Limited schedule was LA-MIA per 4/2/95 timetable.

EASTBOUND

lv.LA 10:30 pm Su TU FR

Phoenix 7.08 a.m. MO WE SA

ar.EL Paso 4.40 pm.

lv El Paso 5 p.m.

ar.San Antonio 5:30a.m. TU TH SU

lv San Antonio 6.15 a.m. ""

ar. NOL 7.35 p.m. Tu Th SU

lv. NOL 10.55 p.m.

ar.JAX 2.05 p.m. WE FR MO

lv.JAX 2.30 p.m.

Orlando 5.35 p.m.

ar.Miami 10.55 pm. WE FR MO

WESTBOUJND

LV. MiamiI 12:30 P.M. SU TU FR

Orlando 5.28 p.m.

ar.JAX 8.55 p.m.

lv. JAX 9.20 p.m.

ar. NOL 11. a.m. MO WE SA

lv. NOL 1.20 p.m.

ar. San Antonio 2.25 a.m. TU TH SU

lv. San Antonio 2.55 a.m.

ar. EL Paso, 1.25 pm.

lv. El Paso 1.45 p.m.

Phoenix 9.40 p.m.

ar. LA 6.15 a..m. WE FR MO

The timetable notes that sleeping car passengers westbound can stay on board in LA until 7 a.m. Not bad, inasmuch as padding between Pomona and LA is about one hour westbound. So the need for extra sleep was that much more so.

Timetable also notes that westbound passengers boarding the through CH-LA sleeper in San Anton(car 2130) can do so within 20 minutes of the TE's arrival from CHI, due at 11.40p.m.

Total mileage: 3066.
 

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