SUNSET LIMITED 22 HOURS LATE

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Bill Haithcoat

Engineer
Honored Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2002
Messages
4,031
Location
atlanta, georgia
Just noticed that train #1, due to arrive LA yesterday, Sunday June 26, was running 22 hours 47minutes late at Ontario CA. It will be almost one day late by the time it gets to LAUPT.

Anybody know if anything really happened to cause this delay or is this just more of the usual?

By pleasurable l contrast, I notice today's train #2 headed for Orlando tonight was only 35 minutes late at its last check point.

Just think of all the people that westbound performance will drive away.
 
Sadly, I think it's time for the poor old Sunset to be truncated. Amtrak simply cannot afford to spend so much time and equipment on a train that can barely operate on the same day it was scheduled.

In my opinion, it would be much more efficient and productive to operate a daily Fort Worth-Dallas-Houston-New Orleans-Jacksonville-Orlando train and possibly a Bay Area-LAX-Tucson train (on a schedule roughly the opposite of the Coast Starlight).
 
lepearso said:
In my opinion, it would be much more efficient and productive to operate a daily Fort Worth-Dallas-Houston-New Orleans-Jacksonville-Orlando train and possibly a Bay Area-LAX-Tucson train (on a schedule roughly the opposite of the Coast Starlight).
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A few comments here.

First, it has been talked about that an overnight Sacramento-Bay Area-Los Angeles frequency could be covered by extending the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR beyond Emeryvillle to Los Angeles. Thus this train would use the L.A. maintenance and crew bases, and be part of the pool of Superliner equipment that already uses Los Angeles (SUNSET LTD., SOUTHWEST CHIEF, COAST STARLIGHT). One extra consist would have to be dedicated to this train.

Running the SUNSET LIMITED via the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex was one of the National Growth initiatives several years ago, much of which failed since it was based on the movement of mail and express and little on the passengers Amtrak was intended to carry. This reroute would have saved half a day of travel time overall on the transcontinental route, since it was much more direct. It would have left some southern Texas stations without service, and also would have ended east-west service through San Antonio.

Truncating the SUNSET route at Fort Worth might make the remaining eastern portion a little more reliable, but it leaves a huge gap in rail service across the bottom part of the country. The TEXAS EAGLE could be extended in the SUNSET's place to Los Angeles, much as its through cars already do but going west from Fort Worth through Odessa to Arizona rather than running down to San Antonio first and then west.

Another idea for the SUNSET has been to split the train into two separate Los Angeles-New Orleans and New Orleans-Florida trains. This does not address current timekeeping problems, and it ignores totally the number of through passengers that go between points east and west of New Orleans. Making this connection a non-guaranteed one, including a more attractive New Orleans-Florida schedule, might help timekeeping on the eastern train, while maintaining service to all stations currently served by the SUNSET.

I would venture to say that there were many "never again" comments aboard that 22-hour-late train. Ditto for those affected aboard #2 in Houston this weekend, where the SUNSET sat for TEN hours awaiting the clearance of freight trains. Food ran out and tempers flared, two conditions not conducive to attracting passengers for repeat business.
 
IS THIS WHAT TRAVEL HAS BECOME OTHER THEN THE POSSIBLITY OF LOSS OF LIFE? NO we can't dump the train it would reward UP for bad dispatching. Now having an LAX-NOL run I would agree and a seperate NOL-ORL Train with

1 P42

1 Coach-Bag.

1 Coach

1 Lounge

1 Sleeper
 
AmtrakFan said:
IS THIS WHAT TRAVEL HAS BECOME OTHER THEN THE POSSIBLITY OF LOSS OF LIFE? NO we can't dump the train it would reward UP for bad dispatching. Now having an LAX-NOL run I would agree and a seperate NOL-ORL Train with1 P42

1 Coach-Bag.

1 Coach

1 Lounge

1 Sleeper
Click to expand...
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! If you're going to do it, do it right. Pulling a Cardinal/Three Rivers is unacceptable for any kind of new service. Either do it right or don't do it at all. The vast majority of the Sunset's passengers travel on the eastern portion of the trip, NOT the western. Open just about any pouch from a completed Sunset and it will agree with me. The train needs a City of New Orleans/Texas Eagle consist at MINIMUM.
 
battalion51 said:
The vast majority of the Sunset's passengers travel on the eastern portion of the trip, NOT the western. Open just about any pouch from a completed Sunset and it will agree with me.
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Hm, I am not doubting you, but am surprised to hear this since the Amtrak Rail Sale Weekly Specials page frequently advertises cheap seats on the Sunsets between New Orleans and Orlando. The western portion of the route RARELY ever shows up on the rail sale page. Currently cheap seats are being offered on the weekly specials page for all of July and early August.
 
Funny.......they "musta have gotten" lucky tonight then. The #P002 left JAX tonight (05/27) about five (yeah that's really 5) minutes late tonight. Now what time he gets into ORL is a different story, though. OBS...
 
UP is in a meltdown again around Houston TX it is tacking trains 12-24 hours to get thru Houston there is no way around this UP is parking trains on the line i work out of because they can't handle them west of Lafayette LA on the UP line. :angry:
 
Yes, I’ll probably be on the Sunset again despite its 22-hour delays. But this comes from someone who goes out of his way to take the long distance trains to his business destinations instead of flying, and from someone who has the freedom to arrange his schedules accordingly.

Sadly, this is not the case with most riders. As much as I prefer the train over air travel, I have not made reservations past the middle of August, because I can’t be sure Amtrak’s long distance trains will even exist in the fall when I will be making my return trips back home to Texas. Indeed, I have succumbed to the yearly budget cut threats each year since 2001 and routinely make flight reservations for the fall-winter season rather than take a chance with the uncertainties with Amtrak. The yearly uncertainty is just another reason why Amtrak can’t survive in the present circumstances. The government has rigged the result. Ever since forming Amtrak in the early 1970s, the government has refused to structure the whole complicated mess and fund the system to give it a chance to meet its own goals. Each year is just another funding fight resulting in more route and schedule cuts. The long distance trains constitute a system hanging by its finger nails usable only by those of us who are determined to use it, and who are prepared to go to extraordinary lengths to ride them.
 
You know, it's interesting...despite the constant threats against Amtrak, more and more people show up to ride. Honestly, the average rider doesn't care about the politics of getting a train down the line. Instead, the average rider is simply tired of the hustle, bustle, and road rage of our Interstate System and would like a more decent and tranquil form of transportation. To one's surprise, the majority of Amtrak's long-distance passengers are not rail fans looking to go train watching, they are a traveling public looking for a better way to get somewhere and they have made their choice.
 
Guest_Amtrak OBS Employee said:
Funny.......they "musta have gotten" lucky tonight then. The #P002 left JAX tonight (05/27) about five (yeah that's really 5) minutes late tonight. Now what time he gets into ORL is a different story, though. OBS...
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Yeah, P002 got in ORL about 2 hours late I see, lost a lot of time after JAX...not bad considering. What I find even more interesting that having just checked the Amtrak status for P001 (28) is that it left DLD only 1 minute late but it's predicting something like an hour and 7 mins late, for its LAX...talk about having confidence in UP (not that I can blame the pessimism). :lol:
 
lepearso said:
You know, it's interesting...despite the constant threats against Amtrak, more and more people show up to ride.  Honestly, the average rider doesn't care about the politics of getting a train down the line.  Instead, the average rider is simply tired of the hustle, bustle, and road rage of our Interstate System and would like a more decent and tranquil form of transportation.  To one's surprise, the majority of Amtrak's long-distance passengers are not rail fans looking to go train watching, they are a traveling public looking for a better way to get somewhere and they have made their choice.
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In a nutshell, you've made the whole case for passenger trains in the USA.
 
I agree with the post above about making the case for passenger trains.

But the best news of the day is the time made up. The original post was the June 26 train being 22 hrs 47minutes late at Ontario, CA.

But guess what--when it finally arrived LA it was a MERE 21 hrs 37 minutes late!!! So..... I guess it was not a day late, after all! :D :lol: :p

I am reminded of lame, out-of-date jokes, older than I am, about the train being exactly on time----only it is yesterday's train. To think that sometimes that is not a joke, but the truth. and almost was this time.
 
Bill Haithcoat said:
I am reminded of lame, out-of-date jokes, older than I am, about the train being exactly on time----only it is yesterday's train. To think that sometimes that is not a joke, but the truth. and almost was this time.
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Well Mr. Haithcoat, I can vouch for that as being true at least one time in my career. I came into MIA one night on train #97 into MIA, and we hit the bumper at exactly 21:46:00 (9:46PM for you non 24 hour keepers which was #97's older/most recent before the present day schedule into MIA)! The only problem.......we were supposed to do that the NIGHT BEFORE!! :blink: :ph34r:

alas... a day late, but on time!! :lol: OBS...
 
Very intersting about 97 being a full complete 24 hours late. What was the reason? Perhaps a combination of things?

Were the passengers still on board or had they been bussed/abandoned the train, etc long before?
 
I wonder if there has ever been a time when one train, a day late, and the one due that day, have showed up at the same time, or close. I know this one doesn't run daily, but that would be interesteing to see, I'll bet!
 
Bill Haithcoat said:
Very intersting about 97 being a full complete 24 hours late. What was the reason? Perhaps a combination of things?
Were the passengers still on board or had they been bussed/abandoned the train, etc long before?
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Bill, it was just one of those trips where a large combination of situations arose. First off it was in the dead middle of winter time my second year at Amtrak. We left NYC late to begin with being we didn't have equipment that wasn't frozen up. I remember problems with the catenary in the NEC somewhere, then on CSX we had broken rails, had two crossing incidents. Had a couple incidents where passengers fell ill and had to be taken off, etc. After the train became over thirteen hours late, the passengers had an attitude of it was no longer a big deal! We had a good crew and we all (including the paxs) just made a big party out of it. Food was delivered to the train for every meal after the scheduled day of arrival. I don't really know why the decision was made to keep the paxs on the train instead of bussing them, but I do know quite a few passengers left on their own to either return home or find other transportation after we got out of snow and ice. They ended up anulling the next day's train #97 and the #91 supposed to arrive that day I believe was turned to become #92 at SFD though I am not really sure. I do remember after we go to MIA, that morning's #P089 had pulled in about two hours before we did. It was just a screwed up couple of days if you ask me! I marked off the next trip! I needed a break! OBS...
 
battalion51 said:
AmtrakFan said:
IS THIS WHAT TRAVEL HAS BECOME OTHER THEN THE POSSIBLITY OF LOSS OF LIFE?   NO we can't dump the train it would reward UP for bad dispatching.  Now having an LAX-NOL run I would agree and a seperate NOL-ORL Train with1 P42

1 Coach-Bag.

1 Coach

1 Lounge

1 Sleeper
Click to expand...
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! If you're going to do it, do it right. Pulling a Cardinal/Three Rivers is unacceptable for any kind of new service. Either do it right or don't do it at all. The vast majority of the Sunset's passengers travel on the eastern portion of the trip, NOT the western. Open just about any pouch from a completed Sunset and it will agree with me. The train needs a City of New Orleans/Texas Eagle consist at MINIMUM.
Click to expand...
Would this do

1 P42

1 Baggage

1 Trans Dorm 9 Rooms Sold to PAX

1-2 Sleepers

1 Diner

1 Lounge

1 Coach-Bag

2 Coaches
 
Another idea:

move the routing from NOL-HOU-SAS-ELP to NOL-SHR-DAL-FTW-ELP ... ... something talked about for a very long time.

HOU would still get service to the Texas Eagle/Sunset via bus to Longview (as is right now)

SAS would still have service to FTW to join the Sunset.

The Eagle to Sunset sleepers and coach would truncate to join the Sunset at FTW instead of SAS.

Makes good sense. Especially if UP wants to screw around with the Sunset and would rather not even have them on that route anyway.....
 
There seems to be a simple conflict between the needs of the freight trains, and Amtrak. If the people who run the freight trains also own the track, they have the control. Why can't they simply build a few passing points, where the Amtrak trains can overtake, or why can't Amtrak get compensation from the "service providers" when the service (use of tracks) is delayed? I see china is building new train line towards europe, cant you guys get a few passing loops laid? :D
 
The freight lines have many passing areas. Problem is, there ar so many freight trains that the passing areas are always full, too. Or, an Amtrak gets put on one and waits for many freights to pass. They (freights) come one right after another in many parts of the country.
 
I have heard rumor of UP trying to double track that entire route in the southwest. If you look at a rail congestion map, that route from LA to El Paso is the most congested line in the US. Most likely because its pretty much the only rail line from the ports of SoCal to the Southwest and Texas. I'm sure the other rail fans know more than I do, about the progress of those plans. UP has had problems with the way they do business for the past several years, so its really no surprise, at why they can't get Amtrak through. I'd love to see how a railroad dispatcher does his work though.

Chris
 
One would have to wonder if there were any passengers still left on the trail when it FINALLY rolls in to Union Station in LA. One could probably 'hound it faster than being a day late. Walking is a distinct possibility too.

The 5 zephyr was 11 hours late getting to emeryville the other day but I think that was because some some retard parked his car on the railroad tracks to go fishing near Provo Utah. A UP train smacked into it and shut things down for hours.
 
The latest Supreme Court decision allowing public condemnation of land (via eminent domain) for private development would seem to make it easier for UP to acquire whatever small strips of land it would need in order to double-track if the government entities involved would be agreeable to it, and certainly if Washington ever got it's act together it should be able to grease those local-government wheels. If they actually want to do it, the legal climate is certainly less hostile at this point.
 

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