Sunset East Report Should be Coming Soon?

[AlanB]

People may get the impression that you think Amtrak is just out to get the SL.

I think it rather apparent that Amtrak was out to get the Sunset long before this report came out.

Oh come on-- you act like the SL is a living thing that Amtrak is out to exterminate... You have nothing to complain about, if anything, Amtrak could have dealt with the SL issue a long time ago if it weren't for a minority of people complaining about restoring service in a precise way and demanding greater service than they were getting originally.

Excuse me!

Amtrak's mission is to run a national network of trains. Six months after Katrina CSX told Amtrak that they could restore service. Since that point Amtrak has done nothing but find excuses as to why they cannot restore service, from bad platforms to the track not being ready and on and on. Even now, forget for a moment this report. During the meeting in Cali where they outlined the possible plan to run the Eagle daily, they stated that it would take 3 years to train the crews to restore service. At most it should take 6 to 8 months.

And in the meantime, Amtrak keeps pestering the states down there to pay for the service. If a state asks Amtrak to pay for service within a state, fine, then that state should pay for said service. But a train that crosses multiple states is Amtrak's responsability.

It's time to get off the pot and either cancel this train outright or restore it. Bottom line. No excuses.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

Amtrak is a business Alan, you know that as well as any of us do. You know its a bitter pill for Congress and the public at large to swallow. I agree with what you've said time and again on this board about how Congress needs to give up on a profit-making franchise. But IF and until that happens then Amtrak needs to do whatever it can to mitigate loss and ventures that would be unprofitable.

Five years from now after SL service is restored, in whatever form, I'll be waiting for the headlines from Congressmen in FL and MS who say it's just a waste of taxpayer money and get off on rhetoric on spending and use it as an excuse to amplify the call to end ALL Amtrak service.

 

[AlanB]

As long as Amtrak accepts public monies to fund it's operations, then it is more than a business and it must follow it's mandate.

Besides, what business suspends operations hoping that things improves? Either you're in business or your not.

 

[haolerider]

As long as Amtrak accepts public monies to fund it's operations, then it is more than a business and it must follow it's mandate.
Besides, what business suspends operations hoping that things improves? Either you're in business or your not.

Actually, airlines suspend service all the time - either by lowering frequencies or shutting down destinations - selling gates, etc. They do it hoping things will improve - to their bottom line - or to the general economy. Greyhound did the same thing several years ago with the closure of many routes and destinations and they are going to re-open some of them now that their business has improved somewhat.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Perhaps. But that airline is NOT the one and only airline. Amtrak IS the one and only passenger rail system. There is no other passenger rail operator to take up the slack. So your simile is not valid. Apples to oranges again.

 

[transit54]

As long as Amtrak accepts public monies to fund it's operations, then it is more than a business and it must follow it's mandate.
Besides, what business suspends operations hoping that things improves? Either you're in business or your not.

Actually, airlines suspend service all the time - either by lowering frequencies or shutting down destinations - selling gates, etc. They do it hoping things will improve - to their bottom line - or to the general economy. Greyhound did the same thing several years ago with the closure of many routes and destinations and they are going to re-open some of them now that their business has improved somewhat.

Yes, but airlines cannot do this on EAS (essential air service) routes. These are routes they receive a federal subsidy for to ensure adequate service to areas far from a major airport. I think that's a much more analogous comparison.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Why are there certain railfans and transit advocates that see malice around every corner? Why would Amtrak, given the funding and equipment to re implement Sunset East, not want to do so? Answer: No reason at all.
They gladly operated the bleedin' Hilltopper. They'd be happy to operate this. But they are trying to explain the full costs. What they are doing is avoiding lying or painting this picture all roses. It is going to be a money losing service. They want to make sure they get the costs covered before they start it again. And they want Congress to understand that if they run this, they either need more equipment or they need to take equipment off more popular (and lower loss) trains.

They don't want to say, "We can do this for $1 and we'll get 50 bajillion riders!" because Congress will give 'em a buck and get pissed when they don't get 50 bajillion people riding it.

Green Manned Lion, I'm only guessing that you're talking about my previous post. If not, I apologize.

Do I think they would run it if they got the $$$? Absolutely. Do I think they are really concerned one way or another? Nope, not really.

I have no problem with them explaining the full costs, nor lying or painting an overly rosy picture. But to add in the sentence about the faster trip via car, to me, sure sounds a lot like "Hey Congress...hint, hint...to go from N.O to ORL by train really isn't a convenient way to go, so please consider that in making your decision." Overall, I just found it to be a long worded eulogy.

Amtrak has proven to me over the past four years that they obviously aren't really interested in running it. I have a right to be skeptical. I suppose we can thank the advocacy groups for getting us this far. Overall I'd like to see more interest in the part of Amtrak, but I don't. That being said, I don't have much left to say on the subject. Each of us has a strong opinion one way or the other. It's now in the hands of the domestic diplomats.

Happy railroading!

I was probably triggered by your post, but you aren't the only- or main- example of people who seem to feel that way.

As long as Amtrak accepts public monies to fund it's operations, then it is more than a business and it must follow it's mandate.
Besides, what business suspends operations hoping that things improves? Either you're in business or your not.

Pfui, your statement is fatuous and you know it. They are accepting public money on the mandated basis of them attempting to make a profit. As long as they accept money on that farcical premise, they have to do things that work towards profitability, and not running a train that resembled a gigantic hole in the ground into which they shoveled money more than anything else is on the list of things they need to do to that end.

Sunset East was a rotten idea to begin with. A dedicated train over that route is a much better plan, and I think Amtrak figured that out about a month after initiating the service.

 

[TampAGS]

How do Congressional representatives from the Florida Panhandle vote when it comes to Amtrak funding? It's my understanding that the area is sometimes called the "Redneck Riviera," where people often register Democrat but vote Republican, so it seems that their support for Amtrak could go either way.

Florida's Panhandle comprises the state's 1st and 2nd congressional districts.

 

Congressman Jeff Miller, a Republican, has represented Florida's 1st district (also the westernmost) since 2001. Miller succeeded Republican Joe Scarborough, currently of MSNBC.

 

Florida's 2nd district is represented by Democratic Congressman Allen Boyd, who has held the office since 1996. The 2nd district includes most of the panhandle's largest city, Tallahassee, which unlike the remainder of the region, traditionally leans heavily Democratic.

 

Amtrak's route east of Tallahassee lies mostly in Florida's 4th district, which since 2001 has been represented by Republican Congressman Ander Crenshaw. The 4th District stretches east to the Atlantic Ocean and encompasses most of Jacksonville, as well as Madison and Lake City, which were served by the SL prior to Katrina.

 

The House of Representatives' most vocal advocate for restoration of service to the region has been from Florida's 3rd district, Congresswoman Corrine Brown, Democrat. She was elected in 1992. Her district includes much of the SL's route beginning in Jacksonville, headed south through Palatka, winding down along the St. John's River and including portions of Gainesville and Sanford.

 

Congresswoman Brown sits on the House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, and chairs the subcommittee that oversees railroads.

 

[George Harris]

They gladly operated the bleedin' Hilltopper. They'd be happy to operate this. But they are trying to explain the full costs. What they are doing is avoiding lying or painting this picture all roses.

they have to do things that work towards profitability, and not running a train that resembled a gigantic hole in the ground into which they shoveled money more than anything else is on the list of things they need to do to that end.
Sunset East was a rotten idea to begin with. A dedicated train over that route is a much better plan, and I think Amtrak figured that out about a month after initiating the service.

First, The Hilltopper, along iwth two other trains through West Virginia, the Cardinal being the only one remaining, was a congressional mandate to Amtrak required by Harley Staggers, senator or congressman, I forget which, from West Virginia.

Second, if Amtrak wants to get rid of their worst sinkhole for money, they need to unload the Northeast Corridor.

The most logical from the point of view of achieving good ridership would be to either 1. have a coach and sleeper from the CONO added to the SL in New Orleans, or have a coach and sleeper from the SL added to an entended CONO in New Orleans.

A daily SL would be a worthwhile thing, as well, but we run into equipment problems and UP problems here.

 

[henryj]

They gladly operated the bleedin' Hilltopper. They'd be happy to operate this. But they are trying to explain the full costs. What they are doing is avoiding lying or painting this picture all roses.

they have to do things that work towards profitability, and not running a train that resembled a gigantic hole in the ground into which they shoveled money more than anything else is on the list of things they need to do to that end.
Sunset East was a rotten idea to begin with. A dedicated train over that route is a much better plan, and I think Amtrak figured that out about a month after initiating the service.

First, The Hilltopper, along iwth two other trains through West Virginia, the Cardinal being the only one remaining, was a congressional mandate to Amtrak required by Harley Staggers, senator or congressman, I forget which, from West Virginia.

Second, if Amtrak wants to get rid of their worst sinkhole for money, they need to unload the Northeast Corridor.

The most logical from the point of view of achieving good ridership would be to either 1. have a coach and sleeper from the CONO added to the SL in New Orleans, or have a coach and sleeper from the SL added to an entended CONO in New Orleans.

A daily SL would be a worthwhile thing, as well, but we run into equipment problems and UP problems here.

George, my understanding is that the daily Sunset/Eagle/stub train is a done deal and scheduled to start up in October. Doesn't this trump the option #1 of extending the tri-weekly SL??? Also, when they do this they intend to change to schedules....so why was the old schedule shown in the report?? Why does it take 20 months to train crews when they plan to have the daily SL-Eagle running by October?? I could go on forever on this, but basically the report is bogus and full of inaccuracies and mis-information. AND, Congress paid Amtrak over a million dollars for this stupid report. Check out 'This Week in Amtrak'...they want Boardmans' head.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Second, if Amtrak wants to get rid of their worst sinkhole for money, they need to unload the Northeast Corridor.

I don't disagree. But its politics, when you get down to it. Which is why government micromanagement of any business is hilarious and little else.

 

[RTOlson]

Check out 'This Week in Amtrak'...they want Boardmans' head.

Of course they would. I think it's SOP for United Rail Passenger Alliance to call for the firing of anyone who does anything they disagree with.

I appreciate the research and enthusiasm that goes into the newsletters (and other group's efforts for enhanced rail service). However, some of the hyperbole is a turn off after awhile.