St. Paul, Milwaukee, Chicago (TCMC) second daily service

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Wow, the Facebook post seems to confirm the May 21st start date 100%! Thanks for sharing, fairviewroad. The state partners are going to be (well, I think at least in Minnesota) rather grumpy/mad that Amtrak straight-up scooped them on their own state-sponsored service start date announcement! Especially since this is Minnesota's first-ever state-sponsored Amtrak service...you'd think Amtrak would "let" Minnesota or MN and WI stakeholders get the satisfaction of trumpeting the announcement first! Not like I care, but it feels like poor form, ha.
 
This is a momentous day for passenger rail in Minnesota and the upper Midwest in general! If I had a penny for each time I (fairly understandably so) heard people claim this service would NEVER happen, I could have funded the service upgrades myself! MN especially has a long way to go to get anywhere near the competence and service offered by states like NC, IL, WA, OR, or MI, but you truly gotta start somewhere. Building back services that were made essentially nonexistent for basically a half century (or close to it--hasn't been two daily trains between Chicago and St. Paul for over 40 years irrc, and even more as we all know for the 20 trains a day of the 1940s, for example) will take time. Gotta start somewhere, and thank goodness the Borealis is moving forward!
 
I got relatives up there that are excited for the new service. I also have relatives up there that could care less. Can’t win them all. I can’t wait to see ridership numbers over the next several months.
 
Any idea if business class will be 2x1? Or will it be 2x2 like coach but with more legroom? I seem to recall that it's not consistant everyplace but perhaps knowing what cars they are (likely) to use can pin that down.

Assuming there's a cafe car I wonder if it will be staffed between CHI and MKE. Both directions the legs between CHI and MKE overlap a time of day when people might seek out something to eat.
 
moselman66 said:
Any idea if business class will be 2x1? Or will it be 2x2 like coach but with more legroom? I seem to recall that it's not consistant everyplace but perhaps knowing what cars they are (likely) to use can pin that down.

Assuming there's a cafe car I wonder if it will be staffed between CHI and MKE. Both directions the legs between CHI and MKE overlap a time of day when people might seek out something to eat.
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In all likelihood it will have a Club-Dinette, either Amfleet or Horizon. In either case that is 2x1 BC seating.

I cannot imagine why the Dinette won't be staffed on such a long run, but who knows?
 
Harmon Shay said:
Do we have anything confirmed regarding equipment for this train? Most of what I've heard is that it will be Horizon like on most of our Cascades out here in the Northwest, though, as I remember, a test train was run with Superliners.
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It will be Horizon. No Superliner.
 
Thanks. That's what I always assumed anyway. I haven't seen any Horizons leave Seattle lately to help with the Borealis. I hope they don't. We have little reserve as it is, and none when it comes to Horizon club-dinettes.
 
Harmon Shay said:
Thanks. That's what I always assumed anyway. I haven't seen any Horizons leave Seattle lately to help with the Borealis. I hope they don't. We have little reserve as it is, and none when it comes to Horizon club-dinettes.
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Many Horizons are coming out of Mothballs from what I hear. I suspect they might go for Amfleet Club-Dinette out of the Chicago pool.
 
OmahaRoad said:
MN especially has a long way to go to get anywhere near the competence and service offered by states like NC, IL, WA, OR, or MI, but you truly gotta start somewhere.
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You can add VA to your list. Charlottesville has 8 Amtrak trains 3 days a week and 6 the other 4 days - and we're not even on the main line which goes via Richmond.
 
City of Miami said:
You can add VA to your list. Charlottesville has 8 Amtrak trains 3 days a week and 6 the other 4 days - and we're not even on the main line which goes via Richmond.
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Oh yes, definitely! VA is rocking it along with the others. I hope that MN and its partners can get a third daily train on the same (Empire Builder's) corridor going in the next 3-6 years, and later on, the planned train through Madison & Eau Claire, and more. Long way to go though to get anywhere close to the states that have been doing this forvever. Borealis=the beginning!
 
OmahaRoad said:
Especially since this is Minnesota's first-ever state-sponsored Amtrak service...
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Mini-nitpick: Minnesota sponsored Amtrak service from 1975 to 1985, one round trip a day to Duluth. There was much variety in the schedule over the years, sometimes timed to connect with the Empire Builder sometimes not, and for a time it ran all the way from Chicago to Duluth (only the part north of Minneapolis state-subsidized, I think.)

But yes, it's the first PRIIA-era Minnesota service.
 
Siegmund said:
Mini-nitpick: Minnesota sponsored Amtrak service from 1975 to 1985, one round trip a day to Duluth. There was much variety in the schedule over the years, sometimes timed to connect with the Empire Builder sometimes not, and for a time it ran all the way from Chicago to Duluth (only the part north of Minneapolis state-subsidized, I think.)

But yes, it's the first PRIIA-era Minnesota service.
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Yes, I should have said in the modern/PRIIA-era! Thanks. Or maybe I retain so much frustration at the (in my opinion) medicore way that Minnesota barely supported the service to Duluth that I choose to ignore it 😆 The many fluctuations in timing, schedule, route, etc. really did not help anything--and then (to my knowledge) MN simply decided to stop funding the route, which had "bad ridership" due to the poor scheduling/timing and management. Imagine that!

It will take the Borealis doing well to give MN legislators and residents an example of what a well-supported route can do. Many still cite the so-called "failure" of the old Duluth train (even though it was nearly 40 years ago) as a reason to oppose all investment in passenger rail today!
 
Looks like Amtrak wanted something to toot about on Amtrak Day.

As expected, this is an extension of Hiawatha service already scheduled between Chicago/Milwaukee. I'm a bit surprized at the long layover scheduled in Milwaukee northbound. (Though not long at all south.) I'm also wondering how many coach cars will be added to this train (beyond the current consist) considering the evening run has typically been a fairly busy and often full post evening rush train, already, out of Milwaukee. It could easily become sold out, pushing ticket prices higher and/or passengers from Milwaukee to the 7:30 train. Will the trainset will continue to have a locomotive at each end? Or will it get serviced and switched at each terminal nightly?
 
NorthShore said:
Looks like Amtrak wanted something to toot about on Amtrak Day.

As expected, this is an extension of Hiawatha service already scheduled between Chicago/Milwaukee. I'm a bit surprized at the long layover scheduled in Milwaukee northbound. (Though not long at all south.)
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I think MKE has a crew change. There's no extra dwell time in Winona for the crew change like the Emprire Builder has. It would not surprise me if the current Hiawatha crews do their same rotation on the CHI-MKE / MKE-CHI legs and the new extension MKE-MSP has its own set of crews to cover.
 
uncleboots said:
Amtraks Borealis will start service May 21 leaving Chicago at 11:05 AM and MSP at 11:50 AM
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For those who have ideas of taking the Borealis or Empire Builder one-way or round trip
the full trip or just pieces and parts here are their Schedules -
Of course "Good Luck" with the host railroad allowing a timely operation.


CHICAGO - ST. PAUL

AMTRAK 1333

Chicago, IL - Union Station(CHI) - 11:05a

11:26a | 11:27a - Glenview, IL (GLN)

12:04p | 12:05p - Sturtevant, WI (SVT)

12:18p | 12:19p - Milwaukee Airport-Trains, WI -
General Mitchell Int'l Airport (MKA)

12:34p | 12:39p - Milwaukee-Downtown, WI -
Intermodal Station (MKE)

1:41p | 1:41p - Columbus, WI (CBS)

2:13p | 2:13p - Portage, WI (POG)

2:33p | 2:33p - Wisconsin Dells, WI (WDL)

3:17p | 3:17p - Tomah, WI (TOH)

3:58p | 3:58p - La Crosse, WI - Amtrak Station (LSE)

4:28p | 4:34p - Winona, MN (WIN)

5:42p | 5:42p - Red Wing, MN (RDW)

St. Paul-Minneapolis, MN - Union Depot (MSP) - 6:29p


AMTRAK 7

Chicago, IL - Union Station(CHI) - 3:05p

3:29p | 3:29p - Glenview, IL (GLN)

4:35p | 4:45p - Milwaukee-Downtown, WI - Intermodal Station (MKE)

5:55p | 5:55p - Columbus, WI (CBS)

6:24p | 6:24p - Portage, WI (POG)

6:42p | 6:42p - Wisconsin Dells, WI (WDL)

7:20p | 7:20p - Tomah, WI (TOH)

8:04p | 8:04p - La Crosse, WI - Amtrak Station (LSE)

8:34p | 8:40p - Winona, MN (WIN)

9:42p | 9:42p - Red Wing, MN (RDW)

St. Paul-Minneapolis, MN - Union Depot (MSP) - 10:56p


ST. PAUL - CHICAGO

AMTRAK 8

St. Paul-Minneapolis, MN - Union Depot(MSP) - 8:50a

9:44a | 9:44a - Red Wing, MN (RDW)

10:54a | 11:01a - Winona, MN (WIN)

11:37a | 11:37a - La Crosse, WI - Amtrak Station (LSE)

12:16p | 12:16p - Tomah, WI (TOH)

12:58p | 12:58p - Wisconsin Dells, WI (WDL)

1:17p | 1:17p - Portage, WI (POG)

1:47p | 1:47p - Columbus, WI (CBS)

2:57p | 3:05p - Milwaukee-Downtown, WI - Intermodal Station (MKE)

4:12p | 4:12p - Glenview, IL (GLN)

Chicago, IL - Union Station (CHI) - 4:45p


AMTRAK 1340

Departs St. Paul-Minneapolis, MN - Union Depot(MSP) - 11:50a

12:35p | 12:35p - Red Wing, MN (RDW)

1:40p | 1:40p - Winona, MN (WIN)

2:16p | 2:16p - La Crosse, WI - Amtrak Station (LSE)

2:57p | 2:57p - Tomah, WI (TOH)

3:40p | 3:40p - Wisconsin Dells, WI (WDL)

3:58p | 3:58p - Portage, WI (POG)

4:26p | 4:26p - Columbus, WI (CBS)

5:40p | 5:45p - Milwaukee-Downtown, WI -
Intermodal Station (MKE)

5:54p | 5:55p - Milwaukee Airport-Trains, WI -
General Mitchell Int'l Airport (MKA)

6:07p | 6:08p - Sturtevant, WI (SVT)

6:45p | 6:46p - Glenview, IL (GLN)

Arrives Chicago, IL - Union Station (CHI) - 7:14p
 
OmahaRoad said:
https://www.greatriverrail.org/post/ride-amtrak-borealis-trains-starting-tuesday-may-21
"Amtrak Borealis trains will consist of four Horizon class passenger cars with one cafe car and a locomotive." My *goodness* this service needs 5 cars; I cannot believe they are only doing 4. Come on! Well, hopefully the four cars are bursting at the seams by the fall and Amtrak pulls another Horizon out of storage to add to the consist.
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Are all 4 Horizon cars just coaches (maybe 1 a cafe) what about a baggage car ?
 
So much for best laid plans. Driving from Minneapolis to Milwaukee in June, taking 340 to Chicago, then the LSL to Boston. I assumed that the short distance MKE to CHI would mean less chance of serious delay than if I took the EB from MSP. Just got the reissued ticket, changing me from 340 to 1340.
 
Assuming the same 6 Hiawatha frequencies with those 2 train sets, plus the Borealis replacing the 7th Hiawatha frequency with its 2 sets, they could do what VIA Rail does with Toronto - Ottawa/Montreal "J" trains and Jonquire/Senneterre trains- run a combined consist elephant style south of Milwaukee, and split / merge there.

I know they won't do it, but that would take care of the capacity issue for the Hiawatha pair of trains they are in essence replacing, and the Hiawatha equipment cycles remain unchanged. To the extent they sell Chicago to north-of-Milwaukee tickets, it is that many people on current trains 333/340 that won't be served.
 

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