Southwest Chief Reroute News

[VentureForth]

Because few people like riding backwards, or being disturbed to have their seats rotated. Not to mention, the crew doesn't want to turn 150 seat sets around and won't let the pax do it.

But that's just my guess.

 

[guest]

Because few people like riding backwards, or being disturbed to have their seats rotated. Not to mention, the crew doesn't want to turn 150 seat sets around and won't let the pax do it.

But that's just my guess.

But the backwards ride would only last about 30 minutes from Albuquerque back to the main line, right? Not a big deal esp. if explained by the conductor in an announcement?

Similar in a way to what the Canadian does when it arrives in Saskatoon. It backs up into a Y to get to the station. No big deal to ride backwards for a few minutes.

 

[VentureForth]

That would be true in just a wye move, but not in a move the loco to the other end move to which I was replying.

A wye move would be suitable, but sill a huge pain.

 

[henryj]

The wye is located just south of the Albuquerque station. At times when the SWC has had to detour using the transcon this wye is used to turn the train. The train does not have to go all the way back to Belen to rejoin as the wye is between the Albuquerque station and the Dalies to Isleta cutoff. Eastbound the train would take the usual route via the Dalies cutoff to Albuquerque, then back down and turn on the wye and proceed south to Belen and join the transcon. Westbound the train would turn north at Belen and go into the Albuquerque station then back down to the wye, turn and take the cutoff at Isleta to continue west. There is no turning the seats, switching ends with the engine or anything like that. Since the transcon will probably be considerably faster the time penalty to turn the train would have minimal effect.

The Railrunner station at Belen is separate from the BNSF tracks and there is no way that a SWC could use that station without making some changes to the track and station structure, it could to use the old original station at Belen which still exists I believe as a museum, but it is on the opposite side of the tracks and a major highway from Railrunner. The only way to connect between the two stations in Belen is to walk or take a cab and neither would be very easy as there are busy streets and tracks between the two.

Passengers wishing to go to stations east as far as Santa Fe could take a Railrunner connection. Those wishing to go to destinations east of Santa Fe would just be out of luck or have to take a bus.

 

[SarahZ]

Urrrgghhh. I'd rather get off at Belen than ride backwards for 30 minutes. Riding backwards causes motion sickness. :unsure:

 

[jis]

Because few people like riding backwards, or being disturbed to have their seats rotated. Not to mention, the crew doesn't want to turn 150 seat sets around and won't let the pax do it.

But that's just my guess.

But the backwards ride would only last about 30 minutes from Albuquerque back to the main line, right? Not a big deal esp. if explained by the conductor in an announcement?

Actually, a westbound SWC coming out of Albuquerque can head off directly towards LAX through Dailies, so no, most likely if the loco is hitched onto the back of the train, that is how it will go all the way to LAX (or Chicago in case of the eastbound).

Wye-ing near ABQ is the best choice for that reason, specially since a Wye is available anyway.

Indeed the backup move to the Wye would be sort of like the backup move that the Canadian has to make at Edmonton, or the trains arriving into Tampa or New Orleans make.

Because of the nature of the service stop at ABQ, I do not expect the stop to be dropeed should a reroute via the Trans-con takes place.

 

[gswager]

I don't know how long it takes to do wye trip. I think 30 minutes is "over-statement" due to low speed and stops. Even in LAX for non-revenue runs, Amtrak long distance trains have to back up from the shop to the station, or using switcher locomotive. I don't know who do the front (last car of train) while in reverse, maybe the conductor using radio with engineer in locomotive. Problem with wye at ABQ is you'll need one more crew- hand-thrown switch, about 3 switches or so in the wye area. Upgrading to remote control is possible, but expensive.

 

[jis]

I don't know how long it takes to do wye trip. I think 30 minutes is "over-statement" due to low speed and stops. Even in LAX for non-revenue runs, Amtrak long distance trains have to back up from the shop to the station, or using switcher locomotive. I don't know who do the front (last car of train) while in reverse, maybe the conductor using radio with engineer in locomotive. Problem with wye at ABQ is you'll need one more crew- hand-thrown switch, about 3 switches or so in the wye area. Upgrading to remote control is possible, but expensive.

2 or 3 hand thrown switches is what it takes to get the Adirondack properly into Canada, and it is Amtrak crew that does the switch changing. So it is pretty much par for the course, if it must be done. So I don't see that a showstopper. SWC already has a Conductor and an Assistant Conductor. That is all it takes.

 

[VentureForth]

It actually looks like that wye has 7 relavant switches that need to be visually verified - three that must be thrown each trip. Again, not saying that it can't be done because it is done when necessary, but on a daily basis it would be a tremendous headache - especially if there is any delay and Amtrak gets in the way of Railrunner traffic.

 

[MattW]

What about spring switches? Could one or more of those be used on a particular track to avoid having to throw so many switches?

 

[johnny.menhennet]

The Super Chief made a stop in Gallup NM which the SWC no longer makes and a few other stops that have been eliminated or replaced with other towns by the SWC.

Unless the Super Chief made two stops in Gallup, that stop is still there, at least from when I took the SWC about a month ago. I remember because it's two stops before Flagstaff, and just before the clock changed (again, since at the time the rest of the country besides Hawaii and the Hopi Indian Reservation were on DST)

Sorry don't know how Gallup got typed. Meant to put in Seligman, Arizona as the stop of the Super Chief that SWC doesn't make. Super Chief also stopped at Victorville Ca. It also spent only 10 minutes at Albuqerque instead of the half-hour there by the SWC.

Southwest Chief did used to stop at Seligman. I think it was back when the train was the Southwest Limited... Victorville IS a station stop... Seligman stopped being served within a few years of when Williams Jct. started getting served

 

[henryj]

What about spring switches? Could one or more of those be used on a particular track to avoid having to throw so many switches?

All these things could be easily worked out once a decision is made to reroute. The SWC now is only rerouted in emergency situations such as the washouts last spring and the fires so there is no need to make any improvements. Since the BNSF is eager to get this done so they can stop maintenance on the Raton Pass line I am sure they would pick up part of the tab and cooperate in any way they can. The only other option for Amtrak is to start paying for maintenance on the current line which would cost them many millions of dollars they don't have. The Raton Pass line could just be banked and not abandoned until such time as the states see fit to fix it up and use it for something similar to what has been done with the Tennessee Pass line. The line from Trinidad and La Junta east is still in use by the BNSF so some extent I believe. If Amtrak is going to stay in the LD business the BNSF routes could easily support two trains on different timings, one via Raton and one via the Transcon. However if Romney gets elected in 2012 and goes through with his promise to defund Amtrak then all this discussion is moot as there won't be any LD trains.

 

[VentureForth]

I just don't see how running on the Transcon on a daily basis would be allowed by BNSF. That us a BUSY line. It would almost spell certain doom for Amtrak with delays rivaling the Sunset.

 

[printman2000]

I just don't see how running on the Transcon on a daily basis would be allowed by BNSF. That us a BUSY line. It would almost spell certain doom for Amtrak with delays rivaling the Sunset.

BNFS has offered the transon so them allowing it is not even a question. Also, we are talking BNSF here nor UP. They have shown they can handle Amtrak very well. Even when they have temporarily detoured, it has run very close to the same time every day.

 

[Oldsmoboi]

Why are they so eager to reduce capacity by dumping Raton? I thought they were starving for capacity already?

 

[johnny.menhennet]

What about spring switches? Could one or more of those be used on a particular track to avoid having to throw so many switches?

All these things could be easily worked out once a decision is made to reroute. The SWC now is only rerouted in emergency situations such as the washouts last spring and the fires so there is no need to make any improvements. Since the BNSF is eager to get this done so they can stop maintenance on the Raton Pass line I am sure they would pick up part of the tab and cooperate in any way they can. The only other option for Amtrak is to start paying for maintenance on the current line which would cost them many millions of dollars they don't have. The Raton Pass line could just be banked and not abandoned until such time as the states see fit to fix it up and use it for something similar to what has been done with the Tennessee Pass line. The line from Trinidad and La Junta east is still in use by the BNSF so some extent I believe. If Amtrak is going to stay in the LD business the BNSF routes could easily support two trains on different timings, one via Raton and one via the Transcon. However if Romney gets elected in 2012 and goes through with his promise to defund Amtrak then all this discussion is moot as there won't be any LD trains.

This is true. BNSF does still slightly use the line east of La Junta, because whatever traffic they have in Trinidad generally goes up north through Walsenburg and Pueblo. However, BNSF has stated that although they will maintain the track, it is a low priority to them, and it will only be maintained at Class 2 levels, so 79 and 90 mph running will not be anywhere close to possible.

 

[johnny.menhennet]

Has anybody mentioned the fact that Amtrak has taken the Devil's Lake approach to the matter and said that they will pay for whatever maintenance is needed to keep the line with what it's at currently if BNSF decides to abandon?

 

[sechs]

Because few people like riding backwards, or being disturbed to have their seats rotated. Not to mention, the crew doesn't want to turn 150 seat sets around and won't let the pax do it.

But that's just my guess.

I'd say that it's not a very good guess. They turn the seats on the through coaches on the Texas Eagle three times a week. Albuquerque is usually in the middle of the day, so they don't even have to do it while the train is moving. The TE passengers have to travel backwards until the morning.
It is going to make the stop even longer, since it seems that they need most of the currently allotted time to fuel the engines.

 

[anir dendroica]

I just don't see how running on the Transcon on a daily basis would be allowed by BNSF. That us a BUSY line. It would almost spell certain doom for Amtrak with delays rivaling the Sunset.

The Transcon is probably the fastest freight line in the country - double track with hotshot intermodals doing all of the 70 mph speed limit. While it's true that BNSF would probably not run the SWC around hotshot trains, running at 70 mph will not incur much in the way of delays.

 

[VentureForth]

Maybe things will improve with the opening of Abo Canyon. I can still see the HUGE line up of trains waiting to get through.

Meanwhile, what does BNSF have to maintain on the current route? I was under the impression that the track from Belen to Trinidad was owned by the State (current "renegotiations" not withstanding). I would imagine that once brought up to standard ($$$) the track would need relatively minimal maintenance because the only traffic would be at most a couple light weight passenger trains a day, funded by Amtrak and (when applicable) BNSF user fees.

Y'all say BNSF wants Amtrak on their Transcon, but when the economy (thus freight traffic) picks up, they could sing a different tune.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Meanwhile, what does BNSF have to maintain on the current route?

If they decide to abandon it, nothing. If they decide to keep using it then they could simply allow it to deteriorate further.

I was under the impression that the track from Belen to Trinidad was owned by the State (current "renegotiations" not withstanding). I would imagine that once brought up to standard ($$$) the track would need relatively minimal maintenance because the only traffic would be at most a couple light weight passenger trains a day, funded by Amtrak and (when applicable) BNSF user fees.

Don't know what the current status is, but with tax revenues dropping I wouldn't expect the state to pay for much. Current political representation is not pro-rail.

Y'all say BNSF wants Amtrak on their Transcon, but when the economy (thus freight traffic) picks up, they could sing a different tune.

From my understanding BNSF is making this offer themselves. If they didn't want Amtrak on the Transcon then presumably they would not have made the offer.

All I know is that this route is probably going to be on my radar sometime soon so I can check it out before it's modified.

 

[printman2000]

Maybe things will improve with the opening of Abo Canyon. I can still see the HUGE line up of trains waiting to get through.

Meanwhile, what does BNSF have to maintain on the current route? I was under the impression that the track from Belen to Trinidad was owned by the State (current "renegotiations" not withstanding). I would imagine that once brought up to standard ($$$) the track would need relatively minimal maintenance because the only traffic would be at most a couple light weight passenger trains a day, funded by Amtrak and (when applicable) BNSF user fees.

Y'all say BNSF wants Amtrak on their Transcon, but when the economy (thus freight traffic) picks up, they could sing a different tune.

Abo Canyon has been open since June. http://www.bnsf.com/employees/communications/bnsf-news/2011/june/2011-06-06-a.html

On the current route, we are talking about rails that were laid in the 50's (I think I heard) so it does not seem they have much life left in them. Speeds will only go down.

Again, BNSF is a company who knows how to handle traffic and Amtrak. They can put them on the schedule for twice a day and be good to go.

I live less than a mile from the Transcon here in Amarillo and can tell you the tracks are not full.

 

[printman2000]

I forgot to mention, the New Mexico purchase was to only include the tracks up to Raton. Since NM now wants their money back from BNSF, they are certainly not going to put any money into the maintenance of those rails.

 

[printman2000]

Because few people like riding backwards, or being disturbed to have their seats rotated. Not to mention, the crew doesn't want to turn 150 seat sets around and won't let the pax do it.

But that's just my guess.

I'd say that it's not a very good guess. They turn the seats on the through coaches on the Texas Eagle three times a week. Albuquerque is usually in the middle of the day, so they don't even have to do it while the train is moving. The TE passengers have to travel backwards until the morning.
It is going to make the stop even longer, since it seems that they need most of the currently allotted time to fuel the engines.

I disagree. I do not think they will be turning the seats to keep from turning the train.

Remember, you don't have to come to the station, take the train back to the wye, then come back to the station. The wye can be done on the way in or out of Albuquerque. It would add time, but I don't believe it would be enough for them to reverse the train instead.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Since NM now wants their money back from BNSF, they are certainly not going to put any money into the maintenance of those rails.

Let's be clear on this point. This was not a case of split personality disorder. One party moved to purchase this line and take over the maintenance. Plans were drawn up. Agreements made. Money changed hands. All looked well and good. Then another party was voted into power and immediately began work on reversing the decision and dismantling the previous agreements, including demanding a refund from one of the few freight railroads that does not typically screw with Amtrak.