Southwest Chief Reroute News

[MikeM]

Catching the train at 2:30am really isn't the most attractive option to most travelers. So the shift to get Wichita probably won't drive much higher ridership. If there were some way to improve the time to Wichita it would help ridership considerably, but unclear what impact that might have on equipment turns, utilization, etc.

Has anyone determined about how much faster the Southern Transcon would be versus over Raton?

Looking at old timetables: the train should be able to match the pre-30 minute slowdown schedule of a couple of years ago. Bypassing Topeka and Albuquerque could potentially yield a 38 hour Chicago to LA schedule which is faster than theold Santa Fe Super Chief. Makes a one night out westbound schedule possible, but with no connections in Chicago.

LWBaxter

I would think Topeka would remain on the route, the city is on a major BNSF line so it isn't endangered quite like towns on the Raton line. If memory serves me right, when the Texas Chief was killed off, the SWC was rerouted to take in Topeka, which was previously on the TC routing. Before that, the SWC went through Emporia on the Transcon. But I do agree that with all of the work BNSF has done on the Transcon, and the amazing condition of the track, it would be an exciting (but scenically challenged) ride.

 

[sechs]

Emporia is on the Southern Transcon. The split going west is at Elinor, which is southwest of Emporia; although, BNSF runs trains via Newton to Mulvane, to make up for the fact that the line in single track.

The Transcon is the route between Holliday and (East) Emporia via Lebo; that's the Emporia Subdivision. The Southwest Chief takes the Topeka Subdivision through Google. The split going east is at East Emporia.

http://www.bnsf.com/customers/pdf/maps/div_ks.pdf

 

[MikefromCrete]

Catching the train at 2:30am really isn't the most attractive option to most travelers. So the shift to get Wichita probably won't drive much higher ridership. If there were some way to improve the time to Wichita it would help ridership considerably, but unclear what impact that might have on equipment turns, utilization, etc.

Has anyone determined about how much faster the Southern Transcon would be versus over Raton?

Looking at old timetables: the train should be able to match the pre-30 minute slowdown schedule of a couple of years ago. Bypassing Topeka and Albuquerque could potentially yield a 38 hour Chicago to LA schedule which is faster than theold Santa Fe Super Chief. Makes a one night out westbound schedule possible, but with no connections in Chicago.

LWBaxter

Albuquerque wouldn't be bypassed. All previous reroute talks have involved the train detouting from Belen to Albuquerque and back with some kind of wying or locomotives on both ends of the train. I would hate to see the reroute take effect since the ride over Raton Pass and the stop at Lamy always seemed the heart and soul of the whole operation. Amarillo might have more people but the scenery would be deadly dull (although I understand Abo Canyon is scenic in its own right.)

 

[FunNut]

Lamy, the stop for Santa Fe, is about 20 miles from the capital of New Mexico. Connection to town is via a privately owned shuttle service (cost $20) which handles both east and westbound trains, since they pass each other at about the same time daily.

Santa Fe is a major tourist destination, it would be bad news if the re-routing takes place and Lamy/Santa Fe no longer has rail service. Connection can be made from ABQ to Santa Fe using the RailRunner commuter trains, but the previous poster is correct that some of the most beautiful scenery on the SWC route is from Lamy to just past Raton Pass.

I live about 20 miles from Lamy and it's my "home" station. I've been following the news about the re-routing closely. The bottom line is Amtrak is at the mercy of the freight railroads and other owners of track.

 

[guest]

I do wonder if this move happens, it would happen sooner rather than later - as the original article points out, the train transit time is up 10 hours since 1971, and it'll only get slower as more deferred maintenance piles up on the original route. If Amtrak finds itself under the gun on the budget, it's entirely possible they'll just say to heck with it, reroute, and let the chips fall where they may.

I don't know where this 10-hour running time increase comes from. I have a schedule of the Super Chief from July 1, 1970, and it shows the Super Chief leaving LA at 7:30 p.m. and arriving in Chicago at 1:30 p.m. two days later. That compares with the SWC leaving LA at 6:15 p.m. and arriving in Chicago at 3:15 p.m. The times work out to a three-hour running time increase.

Perhaps part of the increased times comes from the running of the SWC southeast from LA through Fullerton and Riverside into the Cajon Pass rather than the more direct routing northeast through Pasadena straight east to San Bernardino and to the Cajon Pass.

The Super Chief made a stop in Gallup NM which the SWC no longer makes and a few other stops that have been eliminated or replaced with other towns by the SWC.

So where does the assertion of a 10-hour running time increase come from?

 

[railiner]

Catching the train at 2:30am really isn't the most attractive option to most travelers. So the shift to get Wichita probably won't drive much higher ridership. If there were some way to improve the time to Wichita it would help ridership considerably, but unclear what impact that might have on equipment turns, utilization, etc.

Has anyone determined about how much faster the Southern Transcon would be versus over Raton?

Looking at old timetables: the train should be able to match the pre-30 minute slowdown schedule of a couple of years ago. Bypassing Topeka and Albuquerque could potentially yield a 38 hour Chicago to LA schedule which is faster than theold Santa Fe Super Chief. Makes a one night out westbound schedule possible, but with no connections in Chicago.

LWBaxter

Albuquerque wouldn't be bypassed. All previous reroute talks have involved the train detouting from Belen to Albuquerque and back with some kind of wying or locomotives on both ends of the train. I would hate to see the reroute take effect since the ride over Raton Pass and the stop at Lamy always seemed the heart and soul of the whole operation. Amarillo might have more people but the scenery would be deadly dull (although I understand Abo Canyon is scenic in its own right.)

Don't be so sure that Albuquerque wouldn't be bypassed....just ask the folks at Phoenix, which is larger than Albuquerque. And not even a thruway connection to Maricopa. Bypassing Albuquerque would save considerable time and money.

 

[MattW]

Unless I'm badly misunderstanding the track configurations, Phoenix would have required a massive move out of the way whereas Albuquerque, once you've turned the train, you're only a few miles out of the way.

 

[bretton88]

Unless I'm badly misunderstanding the track configurations, Phoenix would have required a massive move out of the way whereas Albuquerque, once you've turned the train, you're only a few miles out of the way.

Though it is indeed shorter than Phoenix, 35 miles each way is not "nothing." The more likely option is a cross platform transfer to the Railrunner in Belen to get to ABQ. Probably in the form of a free transfer with your Amtrak ticket.

 

[jdcnosse]

The Super Chief made a stop in Gallup NM which the SWC no longer makes and a few other stops that have been eliminated or replaced with other towns by the SWC.

Unless the Super Chief made two stops in Gallup, that stop is still there, at least from when I took the SWC about a month ago. I remember because it's two stops before Flagstaff, and just before the clock changed (again, since at the time the rest of the country besides Hawaii and the Hopi Indian Reservation were on DST)

 

[George Harris]

The fastest ever time for the Super Chief was something on the order of 36 1/2 hours, so 38 hours does not beat the old SC's best time. At the time of the 36 hour schedule, much of the ATSF main that is now limited to 90 mph and some that is now limited to 79 mph allowed 100 mph.

Don't know the exact distance, but it is less than 35 miles. Albuquerque to Dailes is 27 miles, and Belen to Albuquierque is somewhat less, probably under 20 miles.

 

[printman2000]

Unless I'm badly misunderstanding the track configurations, Phoenix would have required a massive move out of the way whereas Albuquerque, once you've turned the train, you're only a few miles out of the way.

Though it is indeed shorter than Phoenix, 35 miles each way is not "nothing." The more likely option is a cross platform transfer to the Railrunner in Belen to get to ABQ. Probably in the form of a free transfer with your Amtrak ticket.

I would think Albuquerque would still be served. It is a major service stop where all cars get rewatered and the locomotives get refueled. They also store a backup locomotive there. I do not know of any other place nearby all this can happen without some new infrastructure built.

Over the past few years, when the SWC was temporarily rereouted, they have always made the Albuquerque stop. There is a wye just a short distance from the station.

 

[railiner]

Unless I'm badly misunderstanding the track configurations, Phoenix would have required a massive move out of the way whereas Albuquerque, once you've turned the train, you're only a few miles out of the way.

Though it is indeed shorter than Phoenix, 35 miles each way is not "nothing." The more likely option is a cross platform transfer to the Railrunner in Belen to get to ABQ. Probably in the form of a free transfer with your Amtrak ticket.

A cross platform transfer to the Railrunner would be nice, but considering the timekeeping of Amtrak long distance trains, it would probably not be a viable solution.

A dedicated thruway bus to/from Belen would be a more practicle solution.

Anytime you have a backup/wyeing move on a route, even for just a short distance, can prove to be troublesome and subject to all sorts of delays.

I can just see it now.....new Amtrak timetable for SWC that has been rerouted thru Belen to serve Albuquerque, would have a little footnote saying: "Service to Albuquerque to be provided at a date to be determined"......

You know how that goes....

 

[guest]

The Super Chief made a stop in Gallup NM which the SWC no longer makes and a few other stops that have been eliminated or replaced with other towns by the SWC.

Unless the Super Chief made two stops in Gallup, that stop is still there, at least from when I took the SWC about a month ago. I remember because it's two stops before Flagstaff, and just before the clock changed (again, since at the time the rest of the country besides Hawaii and the Hopi Indian Reservation were on DST)

Sorry don't know how Gallup got typed. Meant to put in Seligman, Arizona as the stop of the Super Chief that SWC doesn't make. Super Chief also stopped at Victorville Ca. It also spent only 10 minutes at Albuqerque instead of the half-hour there by the SWC.

 

[printman2000]

A cross platform transfer to the Railrunner would be nice

Not if you had several large checked bags to haul with you.

Course, if they do not serve Albuquerque, not sure they would even let you check bags.

 

[bretton88]

A cross platform transfer to the Railrunner would be nice

Not if you had several large checked bags to haul with you.

Course, if they do not serve Albuquerque, not sure they would even let you check bags.

Well, those Bombardier cars are outfitted with luggage racks. Amtrak would probably let you check a bag to Belen and then you're on your own. Hope for some friendly railrunner conductors.

 

[printman2000]

A cross platform transfer to the Railrunner would be nice

Not if you had several large checked bags to haul with you.

Course, if they do not serve Albuquerque, not sure they would even let you check bags.

Well, those Bombardier cars are outfitted with luggage racks. Amtrak would probably let you check a bag to Belen and then you're on your own. Hope for some friendly railrunner conductors.

That would require staff at Belen. Also require a significant station be built at Belen.

 

[Casinocim]

I don't like this talk.

 

[bretton88]

A cross platform transfer to the Railrunner would be nice

Not if you had several large checked bags to haul with you.

Course, if they do not serve Albuquerque, not sure they would even let you check bags.

Well, those Bombardier cars are outfitted with luggage racks. Amtrak would probably let you check a bag to Belen and then you're on your own. Hope for some friendly railrunner conductors.

That would require staff at Belen. Also require a significant station be built at Belen.

, Good point, I have no clue what the facilities are at Belen. Apparently the old station is still there, but it isn't the same as the railrunner station. Railrunner does this segment in 40 minutes, so take off some station stops, amtrak could probably do it in 30-35. Google puts it at 35 miles Belen-ABQ transit station. So it is not an insignificant detour into ABQ.

 

[The Chief]

So I checked some AT&SF timetables from the 1960s, re: from Chicago, time and distance, the Western Kansas/Raton route to Albuquerque vs. Wichita-Amarillo route to Belen. The former was The Chief, Super Chief, El Capitan and is the current SWC route. The latter was The San Francisco Chief and is the BNSF Southern Transcon.

No. 19, The Chief, left Chicago at 09:00 (CST) and arrived Albuquerque next day at 07:45 (MST), so 23 hours 45 minutes, over 1335.5 miles.

No. 1, The San Francisco Chief, left Chicago at 15:15 (CST) and arrived Belen next day at 15:45 (MST), so 25 hours 30 minutes, over 1352.1 miles.

During some of the 1960s, No. 19 bypassed Topeka via the Ottawa cutoff, then later was rerouted to stop at Topeka.

During the 1960s No. 1 stopped at Topeka.

The Chief and SF Chief are compared as they were more comparable in number of stops, class, and service. San Francisco Chief included stops at (but not limited to) Newton, Wichita, Amarillo, and Clovis. Its western terminus was Richmond. The Chief went to LA.

 

[gswager]

I think Belen station is on other side of the yard, away from the RailRunner station. So it may not be feasible to use it. I'm pretty sure that SWC will continue to stop at ABQ station.

 

[JeffW]

I don't like this talk.

I agree with you there... I've got friends at four different stops along this route that I enjoy visiting.

One couple of friends is in LaJunta, near the Raton Pass, which I still want to see someday soon!

Of course, this is the sort of news I usually think that "Once it happens, then I'll pay attention." ...or perhaps it's more "If I ignore it, nothing will change."

 

[printman2000]

Since I live in a place that would get Amtrak service for the first time ever, I have to admit I like to think about it.

 

[VentureForth]

The Belen station was purpose built for the NM Railrunner. At least when I lived near by in Los Lunas 5 years ago, the track was a new spur that deadends on the South end. The old ATSF station is on the other side of the yard. In fact, if memory serves, the Railrunner can't even cross over to the Westbound Dailies sub from it's station.

Back to the ATSF station. It is a beautiful, unrestored but in good condition Harvey House. A model railroad club and a quilting group use the facility. There are some museum artifacts there. I went upstairs while an AA meeting was going on downstairs and the rooms were as they were 60 years ago. Time doesn't decay much in NM.

I don't remember much about the platform so can't say if it could physically handle an Amtrak train set. There are some benches for watching the trains enter the main line after a crew change and a fueling stop.

Any Railfan could spend hours there.

That bring said, the station could handle passenger service, but parking is all but nil. A transfer to the NM Railrunner would require a bus to get you up and over the yard. Not a practical junction to take the NM Railrunner to points South of ABQ.

I've seen the wye, and it's a painful backup move. Not Ft Worth Tower 55 bad, but still a pain. I believe the wye is in the midst of several gas/oil storage tanks.

Frankly, I would live to see the SWC serve Amarillo, but only if it could still come through Trinidad. I hope they restore this track to it's full glory.

Oh, btw, Belen has quite a quaint rail fan friendly coffee shop on the other side of the Railrunner parking lot.

 

[FunNut]

The little Lamy station is wonderful inside, like stepping back 60 years. The ladies restroom has gorgeous Talavera hand-painted tiles all over the walls and a sign that says the plumbing was built in 1897 and is very delicate. I was there a few days ago to pick up a new system timetable book and there's a bookstore in the station that wasn't there the last time I was in the station. The agent was extremely friendly and told me to call him to check on the train status the next time I ride the SWC, he even wrote the station phone number down inside the timetable. Just imagine someone at an airport doing that...

 

[manchacrr]

Catching the train at 2:30am really isn't the most attractive option to most travelers. So the shift to get Wichita probably won't drive much higher ridership. If there were some way to improve the time to Wichita it would help ridership considerably, but unclear what impact that might have on equipment turns, utilization, etc.

Has anyone determined about how much faster the Southern Transcon would be versus over Raton?

Looking at old timetables: the train should be able to match the pre-30 minute slowdown schedule of a couple of years ago. Bypassing Topeka and Albuquerque could potentially yield a 38 hour Chicago to LA schedule which is faster than theold Santa Fe Super Chief. Makes a one night out westbound schedule possible, but with no connections in Chicago.

LWBaxter

Albuquerque wouldn't be bypassed. All previous reroute talks have involved the train detouting from Belen to Albuquerque and back with some kind of wying or locomotives on both ends of the train. I would hate to see the reroute take effect since the ride over Raton Pass and the stop at Lamy always seemed the heart and soul of the whole operation. Amarillo might have more people but the scenery would be deadly dull (although I understand Abo Canyon is scenic in its own right.)

Don't be so sure that Albuquerque wouldn't be bypassed....just ask the folks at Phoenix, which is larger than Albuquerque. And not even a thruway connection to Maricopa. Bypassing Albuquerque would save considerable time and money.

Instead of turning the train on a wye in Albuquerque, why not just have the engines run back to back instead of elephant-style. Since there are multiple tracks at the station, Amtrak could just run the locomotives around the train and hook up to the other end. I would assume that this would be faster than wying the train as Albuquerque is a major service stop anyway.