Southwest Chief Re-Route?

[printman2000]

If they eliminate the Raton pass route, that will be one long boring ride. If they use the transcon, does that mean the Topeka and Lawrence stops would be eliminated in favor of the new service to Wichita?

I dunno, I have heard some of the scenery in New Mexico is quite interesting.

No, Topeka and Lawrence would stay as stops. Newton may be dropped for a Wichita stop.

 

[chrsjrcj]

Is it safe to assume the SWC route from ABQ west is safe?

 

[printman2000]

Is it safe to assume the SWC route from ABQ west is safe?

If there is a reroute, Albuquerque would still be served. The only potential stops affected would be Newton to Lamy.

If the people who fear discontinuance of the train are right, then the answer is no.

 

[bill]

Chicago - Los Angeles seems to be a pretty big market for Amtak to pull out of given its history as part of the national network since Amtrak's inception.

I wonder what other retoutes would be possible...

Chicago - LA via Tucumcari, NM (the old Golden State route)

Chicago - LA via SLC and Las Vegas (the old Desert Wind route0

Problem with these routes is that they all involve the UP, and I can't see from a competitive standpoint the UP letting BNSF getting rid of a passenger train and the UP having to take one on.

This could get interesting!

 

[rusty spike]

If they eliminate the Raton pass route, that will be one long boring ride. If they use the transcon, does that mean the Topeka and Lawrence stops would be eliminated in favor of the new service to Wichita?

I dunno, I have heard some of the scenery in New Mexico is quite interesting.

No, Topeka and Lawrence would stay as stops. Newton may be dropped for a Wichita stop.

It would most likely follow the route of Santa Fe's old San Francisco Chief with scheduled stops at Topeka, Wichita, Wellington, KS; Waynoka OK, Amarillo, TX, Clovis NM, then Belen. The old SFC bypassed ABQ offering only motor coach service to the city. However Santa Fe had other pax trains serving ABQ like the Super Chief.

Although not as scenic as Raton & Glorietta Passes, the Amarillo to Clovis to Belen is not all that boring. But that's just me. I'm easily entertained.

What Amtrak & BNSF would do to accommodate ABQ, I think, is all speculation at this point.

I read Fred Frailey's commentary in Trains Mag and took it for what it is---his commentary. He's just encouraging people to get out and ride trains and might have to spin a few facts to get the readers' attention.

 

[SarahZ]

Belen can't handle the pax number and needs of the SWC (crew change, cleaning, etc). Most people agree that they'll head up to ABQ, turn the train on the wye, and then head back to the main line.

 

[VentureForth]

Yeah - I agree. There isn't a huge demand - or even logitistical conveniences to justify the expense of handling passengers at Belen. The Railrunner spur is only connected to the mainline North of Belen.

That being said -

Belen IS a major fuel and servicing yard for transcon BNSF trains. The SWC could certainly pull into the old Harvey House and get all of its crew/cleaning done there. But there just aren't enough passengers to justify it. ABQ is where the stop needs to be.

I'm gonna hate seeing the SWC rerouted. But if it must be so....

 

[yarrow]

so, do we just discount mr. frailey's assertion in trains magazine that the swc will not be rerouted but will be discontinued?

 

[George Harris]

so, do we just discount mr. frailey's assertion in trains magazine that the swc will not be rerouted but will be discontinued?

I would be inclined to do so. The freight route needs very little if any work for the rerouted SWC to match its current time.

 

[VentureForth]

My biggest concern has always been that it will be difficult allowing a 79 - 90 MPH train on an even busier section of track where Amtrak would have to leap frog BNSF. BUT, they seem to do OK with that now West of ABQ, so I suppose they can do it from Wichita all the way to LAX.

 

[henryj]

My biggest concern has always been that it will be difficult allowing a 79 - 90 MPH train on an even busier section of track where Amtrak would have to leap frog BNSF. BUT, they seem to do OK with that now West of ABQ, so I suppose they can do it from Wichita all the way to LAX.

The only problem I see is the single track section at Vaughn, NM on the long fill over the UP tracks. I have seen as many as nine trains backed up for miles waiting their turn to negotiate that section. Will BNSF give Amtrak priority and route the SWC around that type of road block?

 

[TVRM610]

While I agree that Amtrak would still want to service the train in Albuquerque (and to serve such a large city) it is entirely possible that the Albuquerque area stop would be Belen. As has been said its entirely possible to service the train in Belen, and it would cut over an hour of time off the schedule (turning a long train on a wye takes a few minutes... Plus the 1 hour or so round trip running time Belen to Albuquerque. )

They could have a cross platform transfer with the Rail Runner if they wanted to.

I'm just saying... No one knows. If I was a betting man I'd probably bet on Albuquerque, but not with much confidence.

 

[printman2000]

While I agree that Amtrak would still want to service the train in Albuquerque (and to serve such a large city) it is entirely possible that the Albuquerque area stop would be Belen. As has been said its entirely possible to service the train in Belen, and it would cut over an hour of time off the schedule (turning a long train on a wye takes a few minutes... Plus the 1 hour or so round trip running time Belen to Albuquerque. )
They could have a cross platform transfer with the Rail Runner if they wanted to.

I'm just saying... No one knows. If I was a betting man I'd probably bet on Albuquerque, but not with much confidence.

I could be remembering wrong, but it seems i remember there was a conversation about how Belen could not be used because of the track alignments around there.

 

[SarahZ]

^^^^ That.

 

[TVRM610]

I've heard that too but never from a real source. I'm not saying it is possible... But having been to Belen on the Railrunner years ago there was nothing obvious that would prevent it.

 

[Ryan]

Looking at google earth, it appears that there is no connection from the platform track at Belen to the track that heads west.

I'm also not sure where the "hour round trip" you're talking about comes from. Going west, you go through Belen, up to ABQ, turn the train and then head back for just a few miles before turning west on the normal route. You don't go all the way back to Belen.

As far as the reroute killing the train, that's probably nothing more than an attempt to sell magazine subscriptions rather than any realistic possibility.

 

[AlanB]

I've heard that too but never from a real source. I'm not saying it is possible... But having been to Belen on the Railrunner years ago there was nothing obvious that would prevent it.

I was just in Belan last summer on the OTOL Fest, and while I didn't bring survey equipment with me, from what I could see during our layover, there is no space to shoehorn in a place for the Chief to stop. Especially if one wants an across the platform transfer to Railrunner. They'd have to stop on the mainline blocking an interlocking to do it.

There is a topic around here that's a bit less than 1 year old where we discussed this matter once before and I described in a bit more detail some of the problems that I saw. IIRC, there may have even been a sat photo showing some of this. I'm running out the door now, but maybe someone else can find it if they have a spare minute or two.

 

[TVRM610]

Alan... I'm pretty sure you analyzed it better than me. This was years ago and all I really remember is seeing the BNSF trains go right by the Railrunner.

I also need to look at the BNSF track cause i think I'm pretty confused as to what the train would actually be doing going to Albuquerque and then getting back to the main... I thought it had to back track (pun intended) all the way to Belen.

As I said... It makes sense to serve Albuquerque, so if/when the re-route happens I would guess they would still serve it. I'm still convinced that Belen as a stop is possible though... Even if its unlikely.

 

[PRR 60]

Alan... I'm pretty sure you analyzed it better than me. This was years ago and all I really remember is seeing the BNSF trains go right by the Railrunner.
I also need to look at the BNSF track cause i think I'm pretty confused as to what the train would actually be doing going to Albuquerque and then getting back to the main... I thought it had to back track (pun intended) all the way to Belen.

As I said... It makes sense to serve Albuquerque, so if/when the re-route happens I would guess they would still serve it. I'm still convinced that Belen as a stop is possible though... Even if its unlikely.

There is wye trackage just south of the Albuquerque station. They could do what that Silver Star does in Tampa - come into the city from the south, reverse directions at the wye, back into ABQ station, do the train servicing and crew change, and depart heading south. The process would be the same for both the eastbound and westbound trains.

 

[TVRM610]

PRR...

Ryan mentioned a few posts up that the train would be taking 2 different lines in and out... One coming up from Belen... And the other joining the Transcon further down the line (and not back tracking all the way to Belen). That's what I was referring to. I understand the wye process in Albuquerque.

 

[Ryan]

Here's what I think it looks like: The distance measurement is roughly from Belen to ABQ. The black arrows indicaate the route out of town to head west. Halfway to Los Lunas, you "hang a right" and cross I-25 to head west (indicated by the black MSPaint arrows).

 

[TVRM610]

I follow Ryan.

The route you have highlighted is the Railrunner route correct?

 

[Ryan]

As far as I can tell, yes.

 

[TVRM610]

Well if the Chief can get to the Railrunner tracks... then it can also serve the Railrunner station. Which was my original point. That Belen COULD work. Yes it would require an Amtrak station to be built, and a second track. But there is a large space there in Belen by the platform.

I'm fairly certain it would be about 1 hour.... 28 miles from Belen to Albuquerque plus turning on the wye and a slow(er) back up move into the station.... that's gonna take the better part of 45 minutes. Then the extra running from Albuquerque back to the Transcon (it might not be a full 28 miles out of the way... but probably at least 10 or 15) and that's another 15 minutes.

Again... I'm not arguing for one thing or another... it makes perfect sense to serve the city of Albuquerque and keep the servicing of the train where it is. But it also makes sense to shave an hour off the schedule and skip a tedious wye turn and back up move. I'm just arguing that both are possibilities.

My hope is that BNSF realizes they should keep Raton pass to help with Transcon congestion. Then it's a win win! But I know that's not how they currently see it.

 

[PRR 60]

Here is another map of the same location.



The green line is the BNSF Transcon main line. The red line is the route presently used by the SWC between the Transcon and ABQ. The blue line is the RailRunner line to Belen. RailRunner and the SWC share the same line into ABQ.

After the reroute, the eastbound SWC would come in on the Transcon from the west, then take the red route up to ABQ, reversing through the wye prior to the station (could be after). It would then head back south out of ABQ and follow the Railrunner to the Transcon at Belen, and then east. Westbound would be the reverse.