You don't need evidence. Everything was better "back then." It's just a fact.
Smoking On Board
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lthanlon
OBS Chief
Are smokeless tobacco products permitted on Amtrak? There doesn't seem to be policy against the stuff, but I've never seen anybody dipping.
When I have a long layover at many airports, I'll enjoy a break in the smoking lounge -- despite being a nonsmoker. There's a minimum drink purchase, but I've always found these places a lot less crowded than the bars and restaurants down on the concourse. I've found the air surprisingly well-filtered. So, I wouldn't necessarily object to a properly maintained smoking-lounge car on Amtrak.
When I have a long layover at many airports, I'll enjoy a break in the smoking lounge -- despite being a nonsmoker. There's a minimum drink purchase, but I've always found these places a lot less crowded than the bars and restaurants down on the concourse. I've found the air surprisingly well-filtered. So, I wouldn't necessarily object to a properly maintained smoking-lounge car on Amtrak.
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Devil's Advocate
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Can you point to a train that has a "properly maintained smoking lounge" which doesn't let the smoke escape? I've been on smoking trains myself and they all let the smoke escape one way or another. If Amtrak can't keep the sewage from escaping their toilets I don't see why we'd expect them to keep smoke from escaping their lounges. Nor do they have the money to start making those kinds of changes anyway. Amtrak has little to fear from smoking addicts. The only other option they have is driving on $4 a gallon gasoline.
Reno89502
Service Attendant
Just a little humorous story. One time I was taking the train over to RNO from CHI, and I was standing far away from everyone on the platform in DEN having a smoke. A man and wife walked by me, and she said to me "They need to ban smoking everywhere because all of you smokers are polluting the air! We have a right to breathe you know!" I looked at her and politely said "Mam, I understand where you are coming from, but, I gave up my car years ago because I wanted to take public transit to help cut down all of the pollution in the air. Now, do you think I should have the right to tell people that they cant drive down MY street because the car exhaust is polluting the air and I have the right to not breathe their fumes? What do you think causes more pollution, cars, trucks, buses, even trains, or all of the cigarette smokers in the world"? She looked at me and said "You know, you have a VERY valid point!", smiled at me, and walked off with her husband. Now, I can see where smoking indoors can be a problem, but smoking outside, on platforms, away from the doors should not be a problem.
Bierboy
OBS Chief
When we road the Cardinal in summer of 2002, smoking was allowed only in one half of the single level lounge car. Which, of course, was ridiculous because there was nothing to block the smoke from drifting to the other half of the car.
Ispolkom
Engineer
Smoking sections rarely make much operational sense. My favorite was a Turkish Airlines flight, Istanbul-Ashgabat. The left side of the plane was smoking, the right nonsmoking. I had an aisle seat, and the gentleman across the aisle chain-smoked the whole flight.
jis
Permanent Way Inspector
Staff member
Administator
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AU Supporting Member
Gathering Team Member
I regularly fly to India on flights that are around 15 hours. I have flown Newark to Singapore on the nonstop that is over 18 hours. You get to fly over the North Pole.
There are plenty of 14+ hour flights these days. Just Newark hosts about half a dozen each day.
fillyjonk
OBS Chief
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I remember one crowded trip on the TE, back when they still had a car with a smoking lounge. I complained that I had lowgrade asthma and was allergic to cigarette smoke, and they STILL insisted on seating me in the car that had the smoking lounge because "This is the car for people getting off at your stop." I was a lot younger and a lot less crankier than I am now so I didn't complain (but was pretty unhappy and miserable, and yes, the car smelled of smoke)
Shortly after that I discovered the sleeper car option (I was still in 'grad student must do everything as cheaply as possible' mode back then) and then shortly after that, they banned smoking on the TE.
I wouldn't have a problem with a smoking lounge PROVIDED they gave non smoking passengers the choice NOT to sit in the car with the smoking lounge. Or, if they had enough cars, just make one whole car the smoking lounge and stick it either up front or on the rear of the train.
(I also had a seatmate one trip who got up every 45 minutes to go for a smoke. He insisted on sitting at the window seat - so every 45 minutes, all through the night, "Hey, can I get past you?" and then he would come back reeking of smoke. It was a full train so I couldn't move.)
Shortly after that I discovered the sleeper car option (I was still in 'grad student must do everything as cheaply as possible' mode back then) and then shortly after that, they banned smoking on the TE.
I wouldn't have a problem with a smoking lounge PROVIDED they gave non smoking passengers the choice NOT to sit in the car with the smoking lounge. Or, if they had enough cars, just make one whole car the smoking lounge and stick it either up front or on the rear of the train.
(I also had a seatmate one trip who got up every 45 minutes to go for a smoke. He insisted on sitting at the window seat - so every 45 minutes, all through the night, "Hey, can I get past you?" and then he would come back reeking of smoke. It was a full train so I couldn't move.)
Cho Cho Charlie
Engineer
You mean like chewing tobacco?
lthanlon
OBS Chief
People chew all the time...
R
Robyn
Guest
I think it's BS how some places are banning E-Cigaretts! Really??? And why??? Because if smokers stop smoking real Cigaretts then the Government will lose money with their illegal taxation laws!!!!! Bull Crap!!!
leemell
Conductor
This is an old thread.
How does banning e-cigarettes have anything to do with that? Regular cigarettes are banned too. It's not like Amtrak is saying regular cigarettes are okay but e-cigarettes aren't. ^_^
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
I agree that Amtrak should ban ALL cigarettes, cigars, and tobacco pipes.
N
Nathanael
Guest
This is simply untrue. I was on planes when smoking was allowed, and I left extremely sick, routinely.
Cigarette smoke is very, VERY bad for you. And they didn't ventilate it hardly at all.
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
While I fully agree, please note that Ben G posted a long time ago.
They do, except on the AutoTrain.
leemell
Conductor
For aircraft that isn't true. The cabin air turns over two to three times every minute and the air is filtered that reduces the germ level by ;92-98%.
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
I know, but Robyn said that Amtrak should not ban E-cigarettes.
Devil's Advocate
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Source?
Germ is really more of a vague marketing term than any sort of scientific designation. My understanding is that the ventilation rate of cabin air depends on multiple factors including the specific aircraft type, airspeed, engine rotation, altitude, and rate of ascent/descent. The ventilation rate itself is most directly controlled by automatic release valves which are designed to maintain a specific cabin pressure rather than a given refresh rate and during some stages of flight virtually no cabin air is released at all. Even if you wanted to replace the air two or three times every minute it's by no means guaranteed this would be possible within the limits of conventional jet engines, air packs, and airframes. Assuming you could heat and cool the air to a reasonable temperature fast enough, and assuming the cabin air release mechanism could somehow keep up, such a fast ventilation rate would still require a near constant whirlwind of continuous air movement and would almost certainly result in nearly immediate oxygen depletion. Not something you'd want to worry about on a commercial passenger airliner.
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Another problem is when passengers smell of smoke on the train. Sitting next to someone who has smoked or been in a room with smokers is never pleasant. Disallowing smoking on platforms and other station grounds would only go so far; smokers need to wear clothing on the train that hasn't been around cigarette smoke.
andersone
Conductor
Two packs a day for thirty years got me two radical head and neck cancer surgeries, a trachea for the rest of my life, rad scars that are permanent, and a completely different life. I smoked on planes and trains (one of the old joys of a sleeper) and everywhere else. When my buddy jumps in the golf cart and lights one up, i still want one but too many people have spent too much time to save my life to consider it. I know full well the addictive power of nicotine, and have compassion for those who are under it's sway. I can only hope you can find a way to quit before you have to experience what the last five years of my life have been. I don't have to worry about Hell, I am living it but the bottom line is I am alive. Sounds like it will put me in good stead for my August encounter with EB.
FormerOBS
Conductor
One post said smoking is permitted on Auto Train. That information is outdated. AUTO TRAIN IS NON-SMOKING. The ban includes all forms of smoking, including e-cigarettes. I think this is the consistent policy throughout the Amtrak system.
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