Single Level Train Diners to be Replaced

shop deals on amazon
Advertise with us
Shop deals on ebay
Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
R

Randy Henderson

Guest
Amtrak's long term plan to reduce and eliminate the traditional dining car is in full swing. Amtrak publicly announced to its employees via its company newspaper, Amtrak Ink, that it is in the process of retrofitting its Amfleet lounges, specifically the ones with the smoking rooms, into dinettes. Similar to other food service cars already in service on a few medium and corridor trains, the dinette (called Diner-lite) by Amtrak's Mechinical Department, will replace the dining car to aid in Amtrak's futher need to reduce food service and labor costs in on-board service coming from both political and financial fronts. Amtrak has "admitted" through its article that the Diner-lite will be the only food service car on-board all long-distance East coast trains. The car will have the traditional snackbar style cafe and serve "ready-to-go tray meals" on the dinette side during standard meal periods. The meals will consist of pre-packaged entrees heated in the galley using both conventional and microwave ovens. I am to assume such meals, such as those served on-board the Cascades' Diner between SEA and VAC, will be served. According to article, a poultry, beef and seafood item will be served for dinner. No breakfast or lunch entrees were listed or any support items, like salad, bread or dessert.

I have long suspected the diner was on its way out. This article publicly admits to employees that the diner will be eliminated within a month. Trains specifically targeted to have diners replaced by the Diner-lite include all Silver Service trains, the Crescent, Cardinal (with I believe is already operating with dinnette service) and the Lake Shore Limited. The only "positive news" is that the diner-lite will supplement, rather than replace, the diner during high travel periods. However, knowing the Amtrak business policy, once Amtrak cuts something, its gone for good. Target date for Diner-lite is mid November, which corresponds to the date when Amtrak's food service provider, Gate-Gormet, contract expires.
 
Does Amtrak have a different food service provider for the East coast's 2 Superliner's(Autotrain, Capital Ltd) or is the Superliner Dining Car next in line to be replaced.
 
The actual Amtrak Ink article did not specifically state that "all diners will be replaced by diner-light cars," but rather that in cases where operating both a diner and a lounge is not economically feasible (like when passenger load does not warrant it), such "diner-light" cars could serve as a viable singular alternative. The article mentions that these cars could make an appearance on "some" of Amtrak's long-distance routes in the East, and that a prototype is scheduled to be completed by December, with seven more conversions slated for FY '06. Randy Henderson, could you please provide some more concrete information about, as you state, the full replacement of _all_ east coast diners with these converted smoker lounges? You state that "Amtrak has 'admitted' through its article that the Diner-lite will be the only food service car on-board all long-distance East coast trains," but I don't get that message at all from the text of the article.
 
My response regarding the replacement of diners is due to the fact that East coast crew bases are announcing the abolishment of Chefs, Food Specialist (2nd Cook), and Service Attendants during the coming months. The article is only a "politically correct" document stating the changes to the physical plant needed to develop universal Dinette service. I can't say who informed of the coming food service changes, but I can say that what I wrote is Amtrak's plan for "diner" service effective mid November for the East coast LD trains (pending the date of actual Diner-lite cars being rolled out). Employees who work the crafts of Chef and Food Specialist on the East coast are begining to receive notices of the changes and the Traveling Chefs based out of Wilmington are working with Employee Development Officers in creating a training program for LSAs to prepare the meals for both the cafe and dinette side. The notices include the need to have more LSAs since they will be the only food service employee on-board. Train Attendants are required to have FDA/Safeserve certifications to work in the diner due to extraboard rules. The notices include statements that these certifications held by all SA/TAs may expire because they won't work in food service cars. Only LSAs will need this certification because there will not be Service Attendants on-board these trains. I wish this statement was just a rumor, but I attest to the truth of my post. Major changes to Amtrak are coming, and this is only the first round to "save" money. Those who are familiar with the operation of the Palmetto (89/90) are looking at the future of all LD East coast trains while the operation of Viewliner sleepers still being debated among the company leadership (another topic I can't confirm or deny at this time).
 
In other words folks (as I attest what Mr Henderson states other than some differences regarding the timeline), during FY06 the Amtrak as we know it is gonna go through some serious reform! Remember, one of the mandates of the congressional funding (provided we actually get all we need) is the subsidy can not be used to cover the losses associated with sleeping car and food service! Anyone who believes that quote "the car will be used in cases where a dining car is not necessary or to add extra capacity to the existing diner" is purely fooling themselves and may be blinded to the facts of how the actual business structure of this company operates! Amtrak will operate it in that fashion they state they will do so to a certain point, and then they WILL most likely pull the traditional style diners as soon as they can. If they can save money by cutting jobs and still provide a service, if I know this company as well as I do, they will! I am not happy at all about any and all I have observed in the last couple of years. But decisions have made and continue to be made, and folks you should prepare to come to terms with this. The Amtrak as we know it is changing and won't be the same! It is gonna get "ugly" in the coming months and year or two! More later as info comes and the ability to post it at the right time. OBS...
 
Again does anyone know if this applies to the Autotrain & Capital Limited which has Superliner equipment?
 
I do not believe that the Auto Train or Capitol Limited are subject to this diner-lite system. However, for those who have traveled on the City of New Orleans (pre-Katrina), you may have seen the Superliner lounge dinette prototype, which have lounge chairs on one side and eating booths on the other. According to the food service manager on board the time I made a trip with that car, it was built with the idea that it would serve as additional dining space for passengers wanting "tray meal service." He said the tray meal system was being tested on the Texas Eagle (this was in June 2005 I believe), but we had the car since the Eagle and City shared the same run-through equipment at CHI. It may be possible that this dinette system is to be used on the Capitol Limited, however I don't know any company managers associated with that train. As for the Auto Train, I believe it will stay the same since it is a completely independent business unit of Amtrak, subject to different labor work rules, budgets, management, etc. Due to the fact that the Auto Train is the only LD train that is reported to "make a reasonable profit" to quote Congressman John Mica (R-FL), this anti-Amtrak politican has defended its operation due to providing a link for Central Floridians using their cars (highway politics is a major issue for Central Florida at all levels of government) to get to and from the Northeast, home to most of Florida's snowbird population. I know this post focuses much on the political side of Amtrak policy, but it is the primary force that shapes Amtrak's management of the passenger railroad network. Unfortunately, the concepts that many railfans would like to see drive passenger rail operations are almost non-existant in the minds of Amtrak managers, like route development, marketing, service quality, etc. This is the primary reason why I discontinued my employment with Amtrak. I was tired of going to work every trip and having to devote the bulk of my time apologizing for continual service cuts, bad equipment and worsening on-time performance.
 
This is awful news. I know that those old diners are expensive to operated, but if there is no decent food service on the Lake Shore Limited, then there is really only one vialbe train from Chicago to the east coast, the Capitol, whith decent food service. Having eaten in the dinette or whatever on the three rivers when that was in operation, I know that is a serious step backwards for Amtrak.

Bush has got to go . . . and the soooner the better.
 
I don't know if it will be better or the same on the Cardinal. We were on it this past summer and the food was awful. I don't know if they are just talking about taking the dining car (sleeper coaches) or both the eat-in cars.
 
It will be interesting to see where Amtrak goes with this. What could happen is that Amtrak will start to offer two tiers of long-distance service. On some trains (such as, for example, the Lake Shore and Silver Meteor), they could offer first-class service as they do now, and other trains could offer a reduced service with these hybrid diner-lounge cars.

As for the western trains (or the two east coast Superliner trains), it remains to be seen, but they couldn't be far behind.

One thing people *could* do is call their senators and/or congresspersons and get them to remove the anti-Amtrak language that micro-manages food service in the budget. Such action, while not much, would go a heck of a lot further than lamenting on this list.
 
I wrote to Amtrak today regarding this topic. I will be interested in their response. Below please find a copy of my comments to Amtrak:

My friends,

I have just heard a rumor that Amtrak plans to discontinue all full dining cars on all long distance trains in the east. This might occur as early as November. The diners are to replaced by combined diner-lounges serving pre-packaged frozen fare.

I have been a loyal supporter of Amtrak from the start (1971). My family and I ride frequently esp the Silver Service trains. We enjoy the time together, relaxation and meals. We currently are booked in Feb to ride to Kissemee FL. As usual, the 4 of us are booked in a Viewliner. What are we to expect on this trip? One lounge to serve over 300 people. The current set up barely handles the load. In addition, a few years back Amtrak tried and failed with microwaved meals in the diner. I rode during that period. The food was awful. Passenger complaints were high.

Having one lounge to serve a train as busy as the Star or Meteor is a recipe for disaster. If this is the case, an Amtrak feels that downgrading service to this level is the only way to go, I will be forced to cancel my reservation and fly. For this kind of service, I might as well get to my destination quickly.

Sounds like this decision, if it is true, might be the first nail in the coffin. Another rumor states the Viewliner might also be on borrowed time. Is this any way to run a railroad? Yes, by the way, I've been politically active in supporting passenger rail. I'm an active member of NARP but I feel this is the wrong way to go.
 
this is going 2 going to be serious blow to everyone. It bad enough they cutting jobs to save but I just not right. I used to work out New York and Washington and I am going to tell you it not going to work. I dont think Amtrak nor Bush is being fair( now he wants add another 50 billion dollars for war) .

by the way where did u get this info
 
Am I correct in reading the undertone of the budget "conditions" that will eventually lead to the abolishment of sleeping & food service on west coast trains (specifically the starlate and zephyr)?
 
60 billion more for Iraq today was uncontested by the Senate. When are we going to rise and take our country back! Call your senators and let them know what you think. Elections are next year already.
 
A couple of comments:

First: this is a rumor. Although maybe a good rumor, it is still just a rumor. Until an actual public announcement is made, nothing is official and over-reaction and the obligatory Bush-bashing is premature. By the way: at what point did membership in the Democrat party become a pre-requisite for being a passenger rail enthusiast? I must have missed that announcement.

The legislation mandating that food service be provided at no cost to the taxpayer is still just that: legislation. It is not law (yet) and Amtrak has no present legal mandate to cut food service now. Anything they are doing now is on their own. So, maybe this is entirely Amtrak’s decision. Amtrak cut Acela First Class food service without any legislative prodding. They have a history of this type of behavior. Blaming Bush and Congress may be just a convenient excuse.

If it is actually passed, the requirement to “break even” on food service is not that onerous. Can’t they simply assign whatever portion of first class fares is needed to food service to hit the break even? Much if not most of the dining car patronage is comps for the sleeper passengers anyway. Say that $75 per day per person of the sleeper charge is for food. Book that as food service revenue. If that does not result in break even, then Amtrak has a serious problem.

Maybe the new food service plan, if true, will not be that bad. If the meals are like what Acela First Class used to be, then they will be pretty good. First-class airline meals are very good meals. Maybe the 100-year-old system of preparing and serving meals on trains is outdated and inefficient.

Finally, since when are taxpayers responsible to ensure below-cost restaurant-quality meals are offered to on trains to everyone regardless of cost and demand. If trains are basic transportation (and both Amtrak and NARP use that argument to advocate subsidy), then offer basic food service. If Amtrak wants to offer up-scale food to provide a land-cruise experience to some high-fare passengers: fine. Go ahead. But do so with a cost and revenue structure that makes sense. The taxpayer should not be hit with the tab to provide a cooked-to-order three-course steak dinner served at a linen-covered table by a wait staff. And with the prices charged by Amtrak in the full service dining cars (more than Olive Garden or Steak and Ale) if they are not making money, that is Amtrak’s problem, not the taxpayer’s. Maybe they need some help.

It has long been my contention that Amtrak should not provide food service in-house. Amtrak runs trains. Let a food service company run the restaurants. Get a good caterer and have them provide the food. Santa Fe did that years ago with Fred Harvey. It already happens on the Cascades and the Downeaster (where the states insisted). There is no doubt in my mind that Marriott or Aramark could provide better on board food at a lower cost than Amtrak. Isn’t the on-board experience what counts, not the name on the paychecks of the service staff? Isn’t that at least worth a try on one long distance train to see how it works?
 
PRR makes some very good points that we need to think about.

First of all, let's all not try and jump to the absolute worst conclusion. With or without a mandate from Congress, Amtrak needs to get a handle on the costs of providing sufficient food service. The expiration of Gate Gourmet's contract is a starting point. On trains that do not have a strong enough market for a full-service diner, such as the City of New Orleans, we need to welcome a change in food services provided that the replacement service is good quality and nothing like what we experienced in the 80's. This "hybrid" arrangement could be the silver bullet Amtrak needs on some of its routes, though obviously not all of them.

Another key word in this "rumor" is the word "supplementary". In my mind, it means that the hybrid lounge car could potentially serve to boost dining car capacity on some routes, helping them keep the staff number they have but serve more people and boost their bottom line. There's also the possibility that full-service dining cars will only run seasonally when there's sufficient passenger load to help cover their costs. These are simply some ideas I gather based on what I'm hearing. None of it may be the case.

With pressure from passenger rail activists like us, we should be able to remove the dumbfounded language in the Senate bill while keeping Amtrak management a little more in touch with reality. Let's hang in there on this issue and hope for the most effective outcome.
 
I agree that these are only rumors, and it is not the end of the world. But I do believe food service and the dining car experience is a big enhancer for the service. Not many people pay premium fares for first class on the major airlines, but those who do are huge revenue makers, making it more possible to take the coach passengers. Yes Southwest and JetBlue is an exception, but hey they have no frills to pay for anyways.

Yes Amtrak is basic transportation just like the major airlines, but some people are willing to pay a premium. Even though a small percentage pays for the first class, they make up a huge part of the revenue. (well over half)

Yes food service should be looked at, and should at least break even. Cuts should be made here and there, but improvements should also be made. The Empire Builder is a good example of service enhancement.

Have some confidence guys. Gunn has done an excellent job to turn Amtrak around, just as Bethune and Arpey have done to turn their respective airlines around.

Chris
 
As I said, I contacted Amtrak regarding this issue. The following is their official response:

Thank you for contacting us.

The only food service that has been removed from our trains are the Snack Cars on trains traveling between Albany,NY and New York,NY. We have not heard of any food service being removed from our long distance trains or combining the Lounge/Diner Cars.

Hopefully this information will be of assistance.

Sincerely,

Yola

Amtrak Customer Service
 
I fully understand everyone. Yes Amtrak needs to mange but it all about jobs right now. It very tight. I am speaking employee who layoff twice. I know there is around it ..
 
Hi everybody! :D

Saw this thread and had to reply! :rolleyes:

No changes have been announced for Silver Service. We are still running the diners and lounges and with the holidays approaching, I don't see this happening. No way a dinette could handle a sold out train.

The biggest problem I see with a dinette on a LDT is refrigerated food storage! Additional boxes will have to be installed or time allotted for the car to be replenished enroute. The car will also need a bigger service area for multiple microwave and convection ovens. It will also need a 2-3 man crew behind the counter to feed a trainload within a reasonable period.

What I am curious about is runnng only two trains during the holidays. Will they run with 4 V/L's and 6 coaches to make up for the Palmetto? :blink:

Curious to hear comments!

MJ B)
 
Miami Joe said:
No way a dinette could handle a sold out train.
Click to expand...
You got that right!

On my trip this past summer, I witnessed on both the Lake Shore Limited a full lounge car and a full dining car the better part of the trip. A single lounge or dinette would not even begin to handle the demand. If only these trains didn't have an airline comissary with sky high prices, I'll bet these could have broken even!

I'd like to see Amtrak try a new concept on the Palmetto. A dinette with a touch of class, and a lounge car that really invites you to "lounge". I would see this combo adequately handling a large demand for food service while adding some extra class and comfort on this coach-only arrangement.
 
I agree about a real "lounge" car! :lol:

After the FFT went bankrupt, I went back to the maintenance yard and spent some time working on the V/L diner, # 8500. :p

While it's only my opinion, I think more diner cars should have been built! For the passengers, it had panoramic windows, large booths and a "warm" interior with soft lighting. It had that "intimate nightclub" feel!

For the crews, The galley was extremely large! Can't remember, but I think it had 10 or 12 booths. The servers had to hustle!

For the maintenance people, it was a nightmare! The HVAC was poorly designed and failed frequently! Being "one of a kind", parts were very expensive and usually had to be made to order! :( The other problem was galley construction was finished after the appliances were installed, so to remove B/O units, the walls had to be removed! To replace a convection oven was a 6-10 hr job!

All in all, I think it was well designed and had potential! :D It started having truck problems on every trip and was put in storage a few years ago!

MJ B)
 

Latest posts

Back
Top