Should I complain?

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Walt

Lead Service Attendant
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Mar 9, 2008
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I took the NE Regional a few days ago, and about 1 mile out of Baltimore, the engine broke down leaving us stranded on the track. We had no power and therefore no A/C. The snackbar was also closed. I guess without power, they could not even hand out room temperature soda to BC. :D

Anyway, we were eventually rescued and "dragged" (the conductor's term) into the Baltimore station. The original plans we were told, were that we all would get out in Baltimore, and be transfered onto other trains. However, once we got "dragged" into Baltimore, we were told to return back to our seats; that the train will be "dragged" all the way to Washington. Apparently, our train was full, as were the other trains that day. So, there was no room for all of us to find seats on other trains.

Again, no power meant no A/C. No snackbar. Nothing. :eek:

And we ended up being just over an hour late into Washington.

Now, for Amtrak, an hour late might be considered "good". However, for a trip that was suppose to be only 2 hours, one extra hour is a lot. And, honestly, sitting on the track, I was actually expecting us to be a lot more than just an hour late.

Should I officially complain to Amtrak Customer Service over this? Would doing so, be petty?
 
It wouldn't be petty. They should have connected the HEP from the lead engine. It was stupid of them not to, although there may have been a reason other than laziness.

On the other hand, what good would it do? Amtrak knows about the problem. They did what they could given the circumstances. Admittedly, you probably deserve some compensation for sitting in an un-cooled AmCan for an hour and a half.
 
Maybe just me, and others may have different views, but don't think a breakdown is grounds for a gripe. Could happen anywhere, at any time, to anybody. Be glad you weren't on a plane that suffered engine failure.
 
There's no guarantee the engine that was sent down had HEP. My guess is that one of the Work Train engines was sent up from one of the yards that are in the Baltimore area, many of which don't have HEP to provide power for the A/C and other items. It's your call as to whether you complain or not, no one can stop you from complaining. There is very little Amtrak can do to rectify the situation, since they obviously didn't plan the breakdown. They may offer you compensation, but there's no telling.
 
In reading this, IMHO, when an Amtrak locomotive breaks down, isn't that indeed Amtrak's fault?

In other words, the train wasn't late due to some freight train congestion. The train wasn't late due to CSX's tracks. The train wasn't late due to weather. The train wasn't late due to some passenger emergency.

Isn't this one of those times when the blame falls squarely, 100%, onto Amtrak?
 
battalion51 said:
There's no guarantee the engine that was sent down had HEP. My guess is that one of the Work Train engines was sent up from one of the yards that are in the Baltimore area, many of which don't have HEP to provide power for the A/C and other items. It's your call as to whether you complain or not, no one can stop you from complaining. There is very little Amtrak can do to rectify the situation, since they obviously didn't plan the breakdown. They may offer you compensation, but there's no telling.
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There's nothing stopping Amtrak from storing a spare P42 in Baltimore other than a desire to save some money on the maintenance of having a P42 that's barely used instead of mothballed, if in fact that's what happened.

Does MARC have no spare locomotives with HEP around Baltimore?
 
To hell with HEP. Go back to building passenger cars with windows that open. If you don't like the heat, tough shirt. Worked perfectly well for over a hundred years, but nowadays every pansy demands air conditioning. Pffffft.
 
Green Maned Lion said:
On the other hand, what good would it do? Amtrak knows about the problem. They did what they could given the circumstances. Admittedly, you probably deserve some compensation for sitting in an un-cooled AmCan for an hour and a half.
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Maybe - as you said Amtrak knows about the problem - but OP may get some compensation. I don't think it's made up. In the past, due to a breakdown (and other things also) I corresponded with Amtrak. I received a voucher for $300!

I'm not saying that will happen. Maybe you'll receive some extra AGR points.
 
Joel N. Weber II said:
battalion51 said:
There's no guarantee the engine that was sent down had HEP. My guess is that one of the Work Train engines was sent up from one of the yards that are in the Baltimore area, many of which don't have HEP to provide power for the A/C and other items. It's your call as to whether you complain or not, no one can stop you from complaining. There is very little Amtrak can do to rectify the situation, since they obviously didn't plan the breakdown. They may offer you compensation, but there's no telling.
Click to expand...
There's nothing stopping Amtrak from storing a spare P42 in Baltimore other than a desire to save some money on the maintenance of having a P42 that's barely used instead of mothballed, if in fact that's what happened.

Does MARC have no spare locomotives with HEP around Baltimore?
Click to expand...
I believe MARC's extra locomotives reside at Ivy City in Washington, alongside Amtrak's other equipment. Amtrak could put extra locomotives all over the place, but you have to go to places where it will be practical. Baltimore is just a short jaunt from Washington, whereas a remote location like Dallas is more suited, since it's thousands of miles from the closest shop.
 
WhoozOn1st said:
To hell with HEP. Go back to building passenger cars with windows that open. If you don't like the heat, tough shirt. Worked perfectly well for over a hundred years, but nowadays every pansy demands air conditioning. Pffffft.
Click to expand...

Got to disagree with you on that one. Most people would not want to ride down the NEC with the windows open at 110 mph. Now imagine meeting an Acela going in the other direction at 135, and somebodies wall street journal is history.

As a railfan, I like open windows as much as anybody, but on a 90 degree day, it is going to be too hot in there. Especially if the train stops and there is no air circulation. And most females will object to the draft and insist that the window be closed. I have experienced this on trains in Europe, and have had a few uncomfortable rides on hot days because I could not keep the window open without causing an international incident.
 
My first inclination is to say why complain for what?; being an hour late?; the minor inconvience of a few hours +or- of no AC? But then I wasn't on the train you were, I didn't experience what you experienced and I don't know if you have any medical issues that would be effected by the situation. So I'll address my feeling in an approach from my own experience.

Earlier this month I was on a two way trip from CHI to FLG. We were more than 5 hours late to Flagstaff and more than 2 hours late coming back. Our car had air conditioning problems enroute and continued for a long time and right through to CHI. I overheard someone explaining to our attendant that the ac (coils?) had frozed up because of something that sounded like an employee error. Now I know from my experience with ac in a large computer installation back in the '70's, that when our ac coils froze up, all we needed to do is turn off the ac until they thawed. We had a large floor fan to help quicken the thawing. Now I don't know anything about train ac, but if would seem that if they turned it off for a relatively short period of time (ie one station to the next) then turned it back on that we'd be back to normal. But no! The problem lasted the rest of the trip, and quite honestly the attendant suffered a lot more than I did. There were other problems but will spare the details.

I felt little effect from the ac situation, including no excess sweat, even with medical problems and my resembling one of those big fat sweaty people as so sensitively described by a poster in a topic thread that discussed sitting next other people in coachs! To the good fortune of that poster, I wasn't sitting in coach next to him, but rather in an H room.

I did call Amtrak and complained following my trip... hesitantly, but I would probably not have complained about your situation as you have described it.

Another person that posted a response to you indicated that you deserve some kind of compensation for your inconvience. I can't say weither you do or you don't. All I can say is that it's up to you to decide when the experience or safety issue crosses that grey line of when a complaint should be made and/or seek some sort of compensation. But at the same time I can't help being concerned for the future of Amtrak if people start complaining about every little pittl'n thing that happens during their trips and expecting some sort of voucher or whatever for it!
 
The proper way to deal with someone complaining about an open window in a hot car is to make a fist, then gently extend your middle finger in the international gesture of love and thanks.
 
Maybe I'm just a LD rider but I wouldn't complain about getting to DC safely in a relatively short amount of delay time. We sat in Yuma, AZ in August some time ago and waited six hours for an SP engine with no HEP in 105 degree weather~ now that's voucher time! Besides, you could have gotten off and taken MARC.
 
Joel N. Weber II said:
There's nothing stopping Amtrak from storing a spare P42 in Baltimore other than a desire to save some money on the maintenance of having a P42 that's barely used instead of mothballed, if in fact that's what happened.
Does MARC have no spare locomotives with HEP around Baltimore?
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Joel,

In actuality, there isn't a bit of spare siding to spare in Baltimore, as MARC stores all of its train sets in the station vicinity; the Penn Station yard area is long gone now, unfortunately, part of it having been paved over as the Jones Falls Expressway and the other part taken over by Norfolk Southern for their NEC-connecting operations. As battalion points out, Ivy City in DC is a short jaunt up the NEC, so extra locomotives are kept there.

MARC itself doesn't keep any spare equipment in Baltimore, either, again due to space constraints. The equipment they store in Baltimore is there just for overnight storage and weekend storage, and there are no switching crews in the Baltimore area, as far as I'm aware, that would be available to decouple an engine from a MARC train, run it up the NEC into the tunnels, switch it to another track, then back it into Penn Station to hook up to a disabled train. Even if they did have the crews, and even if the Maryland MTA gave permission to use their engines, it'd be a major production.

Rafi
 
battalion51 said:
Joel N. Weber II said:
battalion51 said:
There's no guarantee the engine that was sent down had HEP. My guess is that one of the Work Train engines was sent up from one of the yards that are in the Baltimore area, many of which don't have HEP to provide power for the A/C and other items. It's your call as to whether you complain or not, no one can stop you from complaining. There is very little Amtrak can do to rectify the situation, since they obviously didn't plan the breakdown. They may offer you compensation, but there's no telling.
Click to expand...
There's nothing stopping Amtrak from storing a spare P42 in Baltimore other than a desire to save some money on the maintenance of having a P42 that's barely used instead of mothballed, if in fact that's what happened.

Does MARC have no spare locomotives with HEP around Baltimore?
Click to expand...
I believe MARC's extra locomotives reside at Ivy City in Washington, alongside Amtrak's other equipment. Amtrak could put extra locomotives all over the place, but you have to go to places where it will be practical. Baltimore is just a short jaunt from Washington, whereas a remote location like Dallas is more suited, since it's thousands of miles from the closest shop.
Click to expand...
CSX does maintenance on MARC's diesels at their yard in Baltimore, so while there may have been some in the city, I'm not sure if/how it would have been possible to get them on the right tracks. (Edit: Rafi beat me to it, sounds like it's as impractical as I thought).

If you want to complain, go for it - the worst that can happen is nothing, and you may get some compensation. Personally, I wouldn't as I understand that sometimes things break and that an extra hour is not a big deal (most of the time).
 
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Green Maned Lion said:
The proper way to deal with someone complaining about an open window in a hot car is to make a fist, then gently extend your middle finger in the international gesture of love and thanks.
Click to expand...

"LOOK KIDS....A DEER....." :lol:
 
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I was on the Trinity Railway Express once when the HEP quit working. It was actually WAY cool with no lights and no airconditioner noise; in the brand new Bombardier Bi-Level coach, it was like gliding through the trees at 60 MPH.

As neat as that was, the temperature crept up slowly but surely until it was quite uncomfortable within minutes. It cut back on and it was nice. Also with stops only minutes apart that helped.
 
That happened to me on a MARC train one morning on the way to work (A/C only cut out for a minute at most). With the electric locomotive, in the quiet car, it was absolutely silent.

If you thought it was cool at 60 it was (nearly) twice as cool at 110. :D
 
Walt said:
...Should I officially complain to Amtrak Customer Service over this? Would doing so, be petty?
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IMHO, this is border-line. It is a bit petty, but given Amtrak's liberal stance on refunds, you would probably get some $$$, back, but not much. It IS Amtrak's fault if an engine breaks down because it is their job to maintain them so they don't. So if you look at it that way, complain.

BUT, if everyone on that train (or any train that had a minor delay / uncomfortable experience) complained and got money back, Amtrak would cease to exist. I am a fan of Amtrak and will only complain if they did me wrong in a medium or major way. It's all a matter of scale, how much they 'did me wrong'.

In your case, I would not complain. Sh_t happens. :eek:

For the record, I did complain last year when I took the CZ and was diverted between DEN and SLC, missing the most scenic part (the major reason I took this route). While this detour was posted in the printed timetable, it was not online and the reservationist did not tell me either. I only found out two days before the trip when I printed the timetable. While on the train other passengers told me they were called by Amtrak to notify them of this detour and I should have been. When I called to complain, I was given a $500 Amtrak credit ($250/person) that I am using to take the CZ again (to see the scenery I missed). In this case, in my opinion, they did me wrong in a medium/major way. BUT they took care of me to my satisfaction. I can't ask for more.

ALSO, in 2006 I was delayed 2 1/2 hours on the Pennsylvanian when the tracks wer blocked at a NS yard. The conductor made an announcement and told everyone on the train to call to complain so they would have a record of it. This record is what they would use to take to NS to bash them over the head. The inference was that the more we complain, the more likely action would be taken. He also said to call your congressman. Evidently NS has a habit of not giving a darn about Amtrak. In this case I did not expect any money back as it was not Amtrak's fault. I did call to complain and told them I did NOT want any money back. The delay was a pain, but did me no real damage.
 
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Instead of expensive locos sitting around as spares, why not take a few boxcars and install a Cummings diesel and a surplus HEP alternator from an old F40in each one? Storing them system-wide would be far, far cheaper, and although speed would have to be much lower (freight gearing), it'd be better than not moving at all.

When the F40's (and Amfleet HEP) started showing up, Amtrak had a few steam generator cars made (besides the former GN ones), as well as HEP generator cars; they ran system-wide to maintain locomotive interchangeability until everything went 100% HEP. SOme were made from baggage cars, some from E-units, A & B.
 
All this talk of open windows on trains takes me back to some trips I took on Thai Railroads.

At one point we were taking a group of boy scouts from Udorn to Bangkok by train.

We briefed the little tykes about never putting their arms out the windows and never throw

anything out the window.

One of the scouts bought a watermelon at a station stop. When they were through eating

the melon he threw the rinds out the window just as we crossed a bridge. The watermelon hit the

end of the bridge and everyone in the cars behind got splatted with melon.

It was not a fun trip after that.
 
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