Mark,Alan- you are comparing apples and oranges, (and missing the point), when you compare unionized workers to non-unionized workers so I won't even go down that road. What I am trying to get across regarding pay is the 'industry standard'. The commuter operations move people- so does Amtrak. The commuter roads get massive subsidies, so some might argue, does Amtrak. Why do Amtrak personnel get paid on average much less. Collective bargaining is just that. Bargaining collectively to gain an outcome desired by the majority of workers. I've been in two different unions and believe me when I say I know they do not always act in the best interest of the workers they are supposed to represent. THAT is what I meant when I refered to the 'good and bad' of organized labor. However, one doesn't have to look too far to see that the errosion of the middle class in this country is at least in PARTLY due to the emasculation of the unionized work force. Legislation upon legislation has been passed to strip collective bargaining of its strength and the effect is appearant. CEOs with MASSIVE benefits packages and workers who get their pensions stolen, (see UAL). In Europe the average CEO makes about 50 times what the average worker makes. In the United States it has risen to almost 300 TIMES. I mean how many millions are enough for one person? Just one of those millions could be used to pay that health care or save 25 jobs paying $40,000. Nope, close the plant, build it, make it and even design it elsewhere so I can have my 25 instead of 24 million. You know, I don't really have a problem with what the brass makes, I really don't. I just ask that they SHARE! After all I or somebody like me helped those guys qualify for those millions. So when they make their millions let me make my thousands. Don't ask for more back from me to pad YOUR paycheck. If its the 'industry standard' to pay CEOs xxx# of millions of dollars then why isn't it the industry standard to pay engine and train crews at Amtrak? It unfortunately has become a common misconcepiton in the United States that unions have outlived their usefulness, cost too much and cause more problems then they are worth. That is sad, truly sad. What do we have now? 70-80 hour work weeks becomming the norm? Paying for our own health care? Less and less vacation? Give back your pension? We are going backward in this county and that attitude will come home to roost one day.
With all respect, I actually think that it is you who missed the point of my statement. First, I never actually said whether the workers with no raise were union or not, although one can probably guess that they weren't based upon the fact that they got no raises. However, my response that involved them had nothing to do with union vs. non-union. My point in bringing them into the discusion was simply in response to your statement that COLA is not a raise. Whether the workers in my example are union or not, has no bearing on the fact that they would be jealous of even the small increases that Amtrak workers have gotten, since they have gotten zero.
My point had nothing to do with whether Amtrak workers are on parity with anyone, much less non-union workers. Like it or not, the definition of a raise is "an increase in one's salary, no matter how large or small it might be." I'm not suggesting that it's a fair raise, just that it is a raise. If you go back through older posts you'll find many times my rising to the defense of the onboard workers when people have made statements about them making too much, or getting too much in tips. Maybe less so for short regional trains, but the life of an onboard crew member for an LD train is not an easy life, and I certainly will never tell anyone that they get paid too much at present.
And just for the record, I never said anything about them having the same contract in place, that came from someone else.
Next, I don't disagree that CEO salaries have indeed gotten out of hand in this country, and I agree that we all may well pay the price for it one day.
It wouldn't have mattered if they did it during the holidays or not, it still would have hurt. Only problem is that it was the union and its workers that got hurt. It was the other unionized employees working in NY that got hurt. It was the average non-union workers who got hurt. It was the unionized firefighter who almost lost his life because he was forced to ride his bike to work and got run over by a bus hired to get workers to their job. In fact his family is suing the Transit Union. It was the patient in the hospital that almost lost his life, because the doctor couldn't get to the hospital.However the MTA strike went I admired them for doing it when it hurt most, at the holidays if I recall. Our newscasters here showed angry passenger after angry passenger clamoring to fire the workers because their life schedules were messed up for a little while. That is collective bargaining at its finest. I'd be willing to be that those same folks wouldn't be complaining if THEY worked at MTA and that's the point: it no longer matters how that union was formed or how those people got to be working there. What matters is that they felt they were getting a raw deal and they did something about it. Not everybody gets to be in charge, somebody has to DO the work. Non-unionized workers have only one choice- there's the door.
The people who make the decisions about things, they didn't get hurt. Most didn't even bat an eyelash, sadly.
And guess what, that strike didn't change anything. They went back to work without a contract! It was days later that an agreement was finally reached, an agreement that the membership then rejected. And because of that they lost even more money! Hardly a prime example of collective barganing at its best, IMHO. I've certainly seen many better examples. Like the health care workers union here in NYC a few years back.
They went months past the end of their contracts, before they struck. The transit workers didn't go one day past the end of their contract. And guess what, if you are correct that it was good for them to pick the holiday, then they just blew their biggest barganing chip. The new contract no longer expires before Christmas. They'll never be able to do that again. So they blew that chip, and they got a contract that is worse than the last offer they had received from the MTA, prior to the strike. Each worker was docked 6 days pay, and the union was fined millions. If it's every forced to pay in full, something that may still happen, it may well be bankrupted. Again, I'm sorry, but hardly a prime example of collective barganing at its best. The health care workers on the other hand, actually did get much of what they were looking for, IIRC.
And when the one hothead union VP stood in front of a TV news camera and told everyone that they picked the holidays, it proceeded to **** off many, many other unionized workers. So much for brotherhood. I won't say that all support vanished, but there were many, many unionized workers who were quite mad at the transit worker's union for ruining their Christmas.
I've never said that going 8 years without a new contract isn't a problem. I think that it is a huge problem. While there are some who should probably be singled out and fired first, I do believe that most of the workers at Amtrak are deserving of better than they are getting and have gotten for the past 8 years. But again, back to my point above, any raise is better than getting absolutely nothing. I have never argued that it's a fair raise. It's not! I'm well aware that Amtrak's workers are way behind the 8 ball on things, when compared to comparable crafts elsewhere. And that's part of the problem, that so many of the crafts aren't comparable to elsewhere, so people try to compare them to things that are similar at least, and end up comparing apples to oranges.So when I say going eight years without a contract is a problem, believe me it is a problem: for the workers, the management and passengers who prefer to use Amtrak. Stating that they got a raise through COLAs makes you sound like many a manager I know. Perhaps the guy who sends out the annual rap sheet telling the workers how much they REALLY cost when health care and pensions are factored in while making six figures AND fueling his personal car at the company-vehicle gas pump. Like I posted previously, we have enough managers, lawers and accountants. Somebody needs to get out and lead- that is get up and do something. I hope AK at Amtrak is up to the challenge.
Are Amtrak workers underpaid? Yes. Do they deserve some serious barganing from Amtrak? Yes. Do they deserve a new contract? Yes. Did they get a raise in the last 8 years? Yes.