Security Sweep on the Texas Eagle

[MattW]

When I rode my one and only Amtrak trip (Gainesville to Birmingham) a while back, Conductor did the same thing just after pulling away from Atlanta. Only he just politely requested to see tickets and kept a smile about him. I now get the feeling that it was the same thing, but done much much MUCH better than barking out "security sweep!"

 

[amtrakwolverine]

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServe...&ssid=10932

when on the southwest chief this year in ABQ they did a on board luggage check though it seamed to be only one guy they searched.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServe...&ssid=10932
when on the southwest chief this year in ABQ they did a on board luggage check though it seamed to be only one guy they searched.

I don't object to Amtrak acting on tips- its just when they get into that TSA 'everybody is conceivably a threat' business that I draw the line.

I didn't mind plane travel prior to 9/11, now I hate it.

I love Amtrak right now, if something cause them to go nuts- I would probably hate traveling in anything but my own car.

But the feasibility of Amtrak checking bags and doing screenings and searches is relativly limited because, unlike airports, most stations serve only a few dozen passengers a day... It would be a tremendous waste of money and manpower to do that.

 

[keebae]

Here is our security sweep adventure. Back in August we were traveling on the California Zephyr from Omaha, NE to Martinez, CA. On Sunday August 24th while we were hanging out at the station waiting for the train to arrive a large group of Police Officers along with a police dog arrived. They made an announcement telling everyone to stay seated while they took the dog around the waiting area. Before we were allowed to leave the station and board the train they checked our tickets and ID. Then the next morning as we were pulling into Fort Morgan , CO (our last stop before Denver) they made an announcement that there would be law enforcement boarding to do a Security Search and everyone must be in their seats. They boarded the train and then we left the station and headed for Denver. They made two sweeps through the train the first time with their dogs. We were in a sleeper (they told us to have our door open) and the dog came right in the room and sniffed around everything. Then we were told to have our tickets and ID out and they came back through to check them.

It took us a while to realize the possible reason for all of this. Obama was speaking in Denver later that day. That was our guess, not sure what other reason it could have been. We talked about it for a long time.

 

[Montanan]

Here is our security sweep adventure. Back in August we were traveling on the California Zephyr from Omaha, NE to Martinez, CA. On Sunday August 24th while we were hanging out at the station waiting for the train to arrive a large group of Police Officers along with a police dog arrived. They made an announcement telling everyone to stay seated while they took the dog around the waiting area. Before we were allowed to leave the station and board the train they checked our tickets and ID. Then the next morning as we were pulling into Fort Morgan , CO (our last stop before Denver) they made an announcement that there would be law enforcement boarding to do a Security Search and everyone must be in their seats. They boarded the train and then we left the station and headed for Denver. They made two sweeps through the train the first time with their dogs. We were in a sleeper (they told us to have our door open) and the dog came right in the room and sniffed around everything. Then we were told to have our tickets and ID out and they came back through to check them.
It took us a while to realize the possible reason for all of this. Obama was speaking in Denver later that day. That was our guess, not sure what other reason it could have been. We talked about it for a long time.

I imagine Obama's speech probably did have something to do with your security sweeps, but the Immigration & Naturalization Service also conducts similar sweeps (complete with dogs) on a number of Amtrak trains, primarily searching for undocumented aliens. I witnessed one such sweep while on the Sunset at Del Rio, Texas earlier this year.

 

[Crescent Mark]

The lady next to me on my last Amtrak trip from Atlanta to Charlotte was riding from New Orleans to Gainesville (the stop after Atlanta). After Atlanta they did the seat check and she said she had misplaced her ticket stub...it was somewhere but she couldn't find it. Anyway so she told the conductor her name when he came by and apparently he had some sort of list of passengers that he checked it against and she showed him ID, etc and then everything was fine. Pretty neat.

 

[AlanB]

Here is our security sweep adventure. Back in August we were traveling on the California Zephyr from Omaha, NE to Martinez, CA. On Sunday August 24th while we were hanging out at the station waiting for the train to arrive a large group of Police Officers along with a police dog arrived. They made an announcement telling everyone to stay seated while they took the dog around the waiting area. Before we were allowed to leave the station and board the train they checked our tickets and ID. Then the next morning as we were pulling into Fort Morgan , CO (our last stop before Denver) they made an announcement that there would be law enforcement boarding to do a Security Search and everyone must be in their seats. They boarded the train and then we left the station and headed for Denver. They made two sweeps through the train the first time with their dogs. We were in a sleeper (they told us to have our door open) and the dog came right in the room and sniffed around everything. Then we were told to have our tickets and ID out and they came back through to check them.
It took us a while to realize the possible reason for all of this. Obama was speaking in Denver later that day. That was our guess, not sure what other reason it could have been. We talked about it for a long time.

I imagine Obama's speech probably did have something to do with your security sweeps, but the Immigration & Naturalization Service also conducts similar sweeps (complete with dogs) on a number of Amtrak trains, primarily searching for undocumented aliens. I witnessed one such sweep while on the Sunset at Del Rio, Texas earlier this year.

I'm quite sure that in Keebae's case it was because of Obama being in Denver.

INS is not allowed to board and search the California Zephyr. They are also not allowed to board the City, the Crescent, the Chief, the Silver's, the Starlight, and the Cardinal; as well as anything on the NEC. They can only board trains that pass within a 100 mile distance from a land border.

 

[ralfp]

INS is not allowed to board and search the California Zephyr. They are also not allowed to board the City, the Crescent, the Chief, the Silver's, the Starlight, and the Cardinal; as well as anything on the NEC. They can only board trains that pass within a 100 mile distance from a land border.

Why only land border? The coast is also a border for the purposes of the Border Patrol "Constitution-Free Zone", which encompasses about 2/3 of the US population.

 

[Rob_C]

What about the Pacific Surfliner, and Cascades? Have there been incidents of them being boarded? Never heard about anything on the Surfliner.

 

[AlanB]

What about the Pacific Surfliner, and Cascades? Have there been incidents of them being boarded? Never heard about anything on the Surfliner.

I haven't heard of any recent boardings of the Surfliners, but I seem to recall that there were some in the past. As for the Cascades, technically one gets boarded every day on its way back from Vancouver. But I haven't heard of any Cascade trains that don't cross the border being boarded.

 

[AlanB]

INS is not allowed to board and search the California Zephyr. They are also not allowed to board the City, the Crescent, the Chief, the Silver's, the Starlight, and the Cardinal; as well as anything on the NEC. They can only board trains that pass within a 100 mile distance from a land border.

Why only land border? The coast is also a border for the purposes of the Border Patrol "Constitution-Free Zone", which encompasses about 2/3 of the US population.

Interesting. Guess I just assumed that land was part of the equation, as I've not heard of any Amtrak trains that don't travel within 100 miles of a land crossing being boarded by customs.

I wonder though if the ACLU would have any better luck in fighting this if they knew that stereotyping was happening on Amtrak or that at least one of the road checkpoints has caused people to loose their lives.

 

[George Harris]

I wonder though if the ACLU would have any better luck in fighting this . . .

I'm not sure which I fear the most: The INS or the ACLU.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

i have seen bomb sniffing dogs at CHI. at LAX they tell you don't leave your bags and wander off. they will be taken by security. they announced the serches along time ago. they claim it won't hold you up sense you only have minutes or seconds to catch a connection and anyone who refuses to be searched will not be allowed on the train and will have there ticket refunded. also at CHI the gates close 5 minutes before leaving and ticket sales stop 10 minutes before leaving.

 

[amtrakwolverine]

they also did this in ABQ on greyhound. they had a plane cloths guy with a badge on his pants going around checking ids and making sure luggage was yours. also in the station they made you show your waste band of the pants to make sure you weren't hiding knives or guns and empty your pockets.

 

[Everydaymatters]

I was on a "sealed" bus crossing from Canada into the U.S. in September, so we had no problem. All we had to do was hold up a picture ID as the crossing guard walked through the bus.

Our driver asked the guard how long he has detained a bus and he replied six hours.

From what I've heard, when traveling by bus a lot depends on the bus driver. If the guards don't like him, expect long delays.

I entered Canada on an Amtrak bus. The driver had to take all of our luggage out and put it on a conveyer. We then got off the bus, walked into the building, got our luggage and waited while the guard checked our declaration papers, ID's, and asked each of us a couple of questions. I screwed up on one of the questions, but the guard just gave me a funny look and said "Welcome to Canada".

Based on what I had been told prior to the trip and the attitude of the guards coming and going, as well as the overall feeling of the passengers and drivers, I'd have to say that coming back into the U.S. was more "tense" than going into Canada.

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

Anyone who has studied psychology, religions, and the theories of collective behavior, would agree that it is just a matter of time before a group utterly consumed by hate (radical Muslims being but only the current example) succeeds in another 9/11-type attack. This is when the government-inspired fear and the government's desire to exercise control over everyone will take a heavy toll on all forms of transportation, our smallest liberties, and our entire economy. The TSA clamps down on the airports while 50,000 people die in car accidents each year. Life is, in fact, often dangerous. It was about 300 year ago when Baruch de Spinoza concluded that governments exists for man, not the other way around.

Air travel has become such a depressing and humiliating experience for me since 9/11, that I've gone to great lengths to avoid it in favor of Amtrak or Web conferences. Though we can guess they may prevent a few attacks here and there, the TSA's constantly expanding activities play into the goals of the terrorists who wish to completely disrupt out lives.

 

[MrFSS]

Air travel has become such a depressing and humiliating experience for me since 9/11, that I've gone to great lengths to avoid it in favor of Amtrak or Web conferences. Though we can guess they may prevent a few attacks here and there, the TSA's constantly expanding activities play into the goals of the terrorists who wish to completely disrupt out lives.

Interesting thoughts.

I used to fly all the time before I retired.

I just flew to LAX for The Get Together last month.

My wife dropped me at LEX about 45 minutes before my flight, I checked in at a kiosk in 30 seconds, another 30 seconds to get my bag checked, and I was done with the security check in in about 2 more minutes. I had time for a nice breakfast, boarded the plane and had a great set of on-time flights all the way to LAX, in fact arriving early by 10 minutes.

The cabin crews were very pleasant, drinks and snacks served (had to pay $5.00 for a lunch box) and over all the flight was very comfortable.

Same on the way back. No delays, easy check-in at LAX, a few hours in the Crown Room and a nice flight home, arriving back at LEX 30 minutes early. I had to wait for my wife to arrive to pick me up.

I was overall very impressed with the experience.

Granted, I only fly about once a year, now, but it seemed OK to me. The TSA's were very professional, yet pleasant, too. I noticed they have new uniforms and I made a comment to one about how nice they looked and was able to carry on a short conversation with him.

Maybe I've had the luck of the draw, but every time I've flown since 911 I've never had a problem.

 

[rmgreenesq]

I wonder though if the ACLU would have any better luck in fighting this . . .

I'm not sure which I fear the most: The INS or the ACLU.

I fear the INS now known as the Dept. of Homeland Security's Immigration & Customs Enforcement. Without a plaintiff, the ACLU is toothless.

Seriously folks, ticket stub checks are very common. They happen all the time on the Acela on the NEC. Since there is lots of turnover at NYP, there is a ticket stub check after departing New York. Sometimes its done by an AmCop. sometimes by the new set of conductors.

When I was traveling southbound to NWK every week, I had to fish my ticket stub out of my bag. The car attendant returned it to me from the holder on the top of my seat upon departing NYP. The attendant informedme that NWK is the next stop. The new conductor then wanted to see my ticket stub, so I had to fish it out of my bag. It was very embarassing.

Rick

 

[Joel N. Weber II]

Anyone who has studied psychology, religions, and the theories of collective behavior, would agree that it is just a matter of time before a group utterly consumed by hate (radical Muslims being but only the current example) succeeds in another 9/11-type attack. This is when the government-inspired fear and the government's desire to exercise control over everyone will take a heavy toll on all forms of transportation, our smallest liberties, and our entire economy. The TSA clamps down on the airports while 50,000 people die in car accidents each year. Life is, in fact, often dangerous. It was about 300 year ago when Baruch de Spinoza concluded that governments exists for man, not the other way around.
Air travel has become such a depressing and humiliating experience for me since 9/11, that I've gone to great lengths to avoid it in favor of Amtrak or Web conferences. Though we can guess they may prevent a few attacks here and there, the TSA's constantly expanding activities play into the goals of the terrorists who wish to completely disrupt out lives.

This article seems to be saying there were fewer than 3000 9/11 deaths, which if that 50,000 is correct, means that fewer people have died during that one time event than die every single month in the US in car accidents.

It's hard to be sure whether the lack of more terrorist attack deaths since then on US soil has been because of the success of the TSA, or if that lack of deaths would have happened anyway.

But it does bother me a lot that more isn't being done about the rate of auto accident deaths. Somewhere there's a list of the most dangerous intersections in Massachussetts (IIRC, some reliably have multiple deaths every year). I have to wonder how many lives could have been saved if we'd taken the TSA money that's been spent at Logan Airport and had instead spent it on improvements to the worst of those intersections. There's also probably some room for safer automobiles, possibly for better safety focused enforcement of traffic laws; and making better mass transit more widely available would also help to move people to safer transportation.

 

[GG-1]

I'd have to say that coming back into the U.S. was more "tense" than going into Canada.

Aloha

on two of my visits I would say the same, returning from Vancouver ,and Toronto. Returning from Calgary and Montreal were smooth and professional both ways. Never tried a visit to Mexico.

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

It has to do with the way we humans react to and manage (a.) sudden dramatic events and threats, and (b.) chronic dangers. We always react to dramatic things, but we tend to push into our unconscious the chronic matters without regard for the relative dangers they present to us. We spend immense sums and time on terrorists and are overcome by weird and unusual diseases (the odd teratoma for instance), but we pretty much ignore car accidents, and the all the other dangers of chronic things always in the background of our lives: high blood pressure, driving withiout set belts, and smoking.

 

[syntaxfactory]

In the UK, you are not allowed to exit the station until you present a stub (at least in King's Cross & Cambridge Stations). It seems minimally inconvenient.

 

[access bob]

In the UK, you are not allowed to exit the station until you present a stub (at least in King's Cross & Cambridge Stations). It seems minimally inconvenient.

can't get out of the Washington DC metro without your ticket either.

still think the most "wierd" but I guess logical event was the traiin in the cage in Vancouver station.... when Amtrak arrives the train goes into a closed and locked and fenced (with barbed wire) enclosure on one of the tracks. passengers deboard and go thru customs and immigration to enter the station. train remains in the cage, not even sure how much servicing it gets, then the same in reverse when leaving.

US officials board the train at an unofficial stop (looked like a grade crossing with a bus shelter) just over the border in the USA on the return trip. some very "tough" looking officials in leather jackets and all got on the train but they were pleasant and officious and were done in 10 minutes or so. I asked one of them if they even check the engineer and they said "of course, hope we don't haul him in though or you will be here. a while..."

they got off and everything was back to amtrak normal.

Bob

 

[ralfp]

US officials board the train at an unofficial stop (looked like a grade crossing with a bus shelter) just over the border in the USA on the return trip. some very "tough" looking officials in leather jackets and all got on the train but they were pleasant and officious and were done in 10 minutes or so. I asked one of them if they even check the engineer and they said "of course, hope we don't haul him in though or you will be here. a while..."

I remember taking a college bus (ski) trip from NY to QC about a decade ago. Going into Canada the border guards came onto the bus and asked everyone who was not a US citizen to raise their hands. They checked passports, etc. for those people.

 

[Everydaymatters]

In those wonderful, carefree days when I was a child, my Welsh mother had to sing the Welch National Anthym to prove to the crossing guard into Canada that she was, indeed, from Wales. All my father and the rest of the family had to do was state that we were born in the U.S.