Security Sweep on the Texas Eagle

[rtabern]

I took the Texas Eagle earlier this week... I got on in STL and was going through to CHI.

About 20 minutes after the train left St. Louis, the conductors announced that they were doing a "security sweep" and that everyone had to leave the Sightseer Lounge and return to either their seats or sleeping car accomodations. The conductors said everyone must pull out their ticket stub... and they actually came by and checked it to make sure it matched your seat check.

Is this something new Amtrak is doing?

I was really shocked... I'm glad I had my ticket stub. I worry though because sometimes I toss it... especially if I was on the train from LA or San Antonio.

I guess a "heads up" to everyone if this is going to be a regular thing -- hold on to your stub!! Hahaha.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I took the Texas Eagle earlier this week... I got on in STL and was going through to CHI.
About 20 minutes after the train left St. Louis, the conductors announced that they were doing a "security sweep" and that everyone had to leave the Sightseer Lounge and return to either their seats or sleeping car accomodations. The conductors said everyone must pull out their ticket stub... and they actually came by and checked it to make sure it matched your seat check.

Is this something new Amtrak is doing?

I was really shocked... I'm glad I had my ticket stub. I worry though because sometimes I toss it... especially if I was on the train from LA or San Antonio.

I guess a "heads up" to everyone if this is going to be a regular thing -- hold on to your stub!! Hahaha.

Labor Day on EB they threatened to do one... Lot of people moving around like hell. But I don't think they worded it as a security sweep- just a seat check.

 

[yarrow]

what were they trying to accomplish? i suppose you could slip on a train at a stop without a ticket and head for the ssl and a "sweep" should uncover that person but so should a conductor who should know who is on his/her train.

 

[rtabern]

My question would be would a conductor be in "the right" for throwing you off the train if you threw away your ticket stub?

Luckily, I had it on me since I just got on in St. Louis... however, like I said... if I boarded the train in San Antonio or especially Los Angeles 3 days before... I would have probably thrown it out or lost it by the time we got to Illinois.

 

[AlanB]

what were they trying to accomplish? i suppose you could slip on a train at a stop without a ticket and head for the ssl and a "sweep" should uncover that person but so should a conductor who should know who is on his/her train.

I can't imagine that any conductor would remember potentially 300 faces, especially if they came on duty at night and such a check happened at say 8:00 AM.

 

[AlanB]

My question would be would a conductor be in "the right" for throwing you off the train if you threw away your ticket stub?
Luckily, I had it on me since I just got on in St. Louis... however, like I said... if I boarded the train in San Antonio or especially Los Angeles 3 days before... I would have probably thrown it out or lost it by the time we got to Illinois.

Well you should never throw away your stub while on board, as you can be challenged at any time by any Amtrak employee technically. And frankly you shouldn't toss it until your AGR points have posted, as you'd then have no proof that you actually rode the train if your points didn't post. You can't even file a missing points claim without numbers on that ticket stub.

All that said, a LD conductor that just threw you off would most likely have some explaining to do. After all he/she still has a passenger manifest, as well as all the tickets that were lifted from every passenger on the train. So they should demmand ID from you, then check the manifest, and failing that go through the tickets to see if they can't find yours. After that point though, they'd be well within their rights to throw you off at the next stop.

And if you were on a corridor/short haul train, then they might not go to all that trouble. Only a LD conductor would probably go through all the above steps first. Still probably not right, but they might be more willing to just toss you.

 

[sky12065]

My question would be would a conductor be in "the right" for throwing you off the train if you threw away your ticket stub?
Luckily, I had it on me since I just got on in St. Louis... however, like I said... if I boarded the train in San Antonio or especially Los Angeles 3 days before... I would have probably thrown it out or lost it by the time we got to Illinois.

Well you should never throw away your stub while on board, as you can be challenged at any time by any Amtrak employee technically. And frankly you shouldn't toss it until your AGR points have posted, as you'd then have no proof that you actually rode the train if your points didn't post. You can't even file a missing points claim without numbers on that ticket stub.

All that said, a LD conductor that just threw you off would most likely have some explaining to do. After all he/she still has a passenger manifest, as well as all the tickets that were lifted from every passenger on the train. So they should demmand ID from you, then check the manifest, and failing that go through the tickets to see if they can't find yours. After that point though, they'd be well within their rights to throw you off at the next stop.

And if you were on a corridor/short haul train, then they might not go to all that trouble. Only a LD conductor would probably go through all the above steps first. Still probably not right, but they might be more willing to just toss you.

Alan, I agree with what you've said. I would add to it that two things.

One that you'll probably know where you tossed your stubs and if it was in the garbage and it hasn't been emptied yet, you will probably be allowed to retrieve it. Nothing like a little romp through the garbage during an enjoyable train trip! :blink:

The second is that there would be a much higher probability that your car or sleeper attendant would remember you than the conductor would!

 

[ralfp]

One that you'll probably know where you tossed your stubs and if it was in the garbage and it hasn't been emptied yet, you will probably be allowed to retrieve it. Nothing like a little romp through the garbage during an enjoyable train trip! :blink:

Given that the conductor knows EXACTLY where the other part of the ticket is, I'd invite him/her to search through the trash if he/she has such a fetish for the small part of the ticket.

 

[sky12065]

One that you'll probably know where you tossed your stubs and if it was in the garbage and it hasn't been emptied yet, you will probably be allowed to retrieve it. Nothing like a little romp through the garbage during an enjoyable train trip! :blink:

Given that the conductor knows EXACTLY where the other part of the ticket is, I'd invite him/her to search through the trash if he/she has such a fetish for the small part of the ticket.

Sounds like a good idea, especially if the conductor is Oscar the Grouch!

 

[GG-1]

Sounds like a good idea, especially if the conductor is Oscar the Grouch!

Ah Oscar is a good Muppet, remember he likes trains.

Aloha

 

[Montanan]

Never heard of that happening before, but now that the statute of limitations has expired I can confess: as a college kid in the summer of 1982 a buddy and I got on the Empire Builder in Havre, headed straight to the lounge car, and rode to West Glacier without paying.

Not that I'm advocating that sort of behavior today, mind you.

 

[Tony]

All that said, a LD conductor that just threw you off would most likely have some explaining to do. After all he/she still has a passenger manifest, as well as all the tickets that were lifted from every passenger on the train. So they should demmand ID from you, then check the manifest, and failing that go through the tickets to see if they can't find yours. After that point though, they'd be well within their rights to throw you off at the next stop.

What if the passenger also threw his wallet away too? He'll have no ID to present.

Honestly, if I was the conductor, any passenger being that difficult ("gee I think I threw away my ticket, what you go'na do about it?"), that passenger would have just failed my security sweep.

Several times on a LD trip, especially for my first meal on-board, I have been asked to show my ticket stub in the dining car. Plus, on shorter runs, in BC, I have been asked to show my ticket stub in the snack car. I have learned to always carry it with me, whenever I roam the train, and I make sure my kid has his, when he roams around too (if nothing else, if he gets confused he could show it to any train crew member and ask for help getting back).

 

[Amtrak Watcher]

Ever since I saw a very angry and distressed young passenger thrown off the north-bound Texas Eagle in Longview, Texas for not being able to prove she had a ticket, or even produce any kind of government issued identification (about two years ago during some kind of "security sweep"), I've been very careful to have my ticket stub and ID with me at all times when on the train.

An Amtrak conductor told me recently that valid identifications and valid ticket stubs are going to be the rule soon, as will "sweeps" and even baggage searches while in route. I've heard elsewhere that the threats from radical Islam have not let up at all. I assume Amtrak is merely responding to on-going threats

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

An Amtrak conductor told me recently that valid identifications and valid ticket stubs are going to be the rule soon, as will "sweeps" and even baggage searches while in route. I've heard elsewhere that the threats from radical Islam have not let up at all. I assume Amtrak is merely responding to on-going threats

And on that day- I go to Greyhound Unlimited.

The TSA is killing the airlines, everybody knows it. They'll kill Amtrak.

Let's face facts, its not "radical Islam" we have to worry about- its "Joe the American terrorist" who puts a rather large homemade bomb in his suitcase when he gets on at a station like ALC at 3:15AM. The conductor kindly helps him stow his luggage in the rack in the bottom of a full Superliner coach and you know where this story is going.

You have to face facts, while a 'luggage search' may uncover a rather large device- there are a ton of small devices and weapons that can be hidden elsewhere. And most of Amtrak stations simply do not have ability to have x-ray machines, sniffing dogs, ect. ect. ect. because they are in the middle of nowhere.

Now the aforementioned scenario is incredibly possible, but equally incredibly implausible. Trains are safer- you can't hijack them and ram then into skyscrapers, you can't have a bomb dig enough to make them fall from 30,000 feet, and let's just face it- if we live in life in fear or terrorism, they have won.

That being said, be no more cautious or your train than you have been- for intent and purpose, we're not safe anywhere we go with any mode of travel. But FEAR will kill your travel plans FAR more often than any bomb will.

 

[yarrow]

what were they trying to accomplish? i suppose you could slip on a train at a stop without a ticket and head for the ssl and a "sweep" should uncover that person but so should a conductor who should know who is on his/her train.

I can't imagine that any conductor would remember potentially 300 faces, especially if they came on duty at night and such a check happened at say 8:00 AM.

you are probably right, alan. alhtough it has been my experience that the conductor working in concert with the assistant and the car attendants seems to know pretty much who is aboard and where they belong. but what then, in your opinion, is the point of a "sweep"? to potentially nab a freeloader (pretty rare occurence i would guess) at the expense of upsetting and irritating a trainload of paying passengers?

 

[Ispolkom]

An Amtrak conductor told me recently that valid identifications and valid ticket stubs are going to be the rule soon, as will "sweeps" and even baggage searches while in route. I've heard elsewhere that the threats from radical Islam have not let up at all. I assume Amtrak is merely responding to on-going threats

Given the tens of thousands of grade crossings, any passenger sweep or baggage search on an Amtrak long-distance train is just security theater. I imagine that terrorists have heard of car bombs.

On the other hand, it's not unreasonable to be asked for your ticket stub. Not out of security concerns, but just to make sure you've paid to be on the train.

 

[Tony]

And on that day- I go to Greyhound Unlimited.

A bus might not be all that different, if we ever go into a stage of high alert where Amtrak has to clamp down.

Even now, try getting onto a bus w/o a ticket, or if you manage to, be unable to show the driver your stub. IMHO, you will be kicked off too.

Plus, the back of my bus tickets contain all the legal language for searching luggage, and even to down right prohibit any.

Yea, I take the bus to the Amtrak station. Several buses a day go back and forth from 5 blocks from my house, to right in front of the station.

 

[ralfp]

An Amtrak conductor told me recently that valid identifications and valid ticket stubs are going to be the rule soon, as will "sweeps" and even baggage searches while in route.

A logical consequence of that is that anyone reporting having their wallet stolen will be kicked off the train for lack of ID. God help you if your ID is stolen or lost while traveling.

I've heard elsewhere that the threats from radical Islam have not let up at all. I assume Amtrak is merely responding to on-going threats

And checking ID helps because terrorists rarely carry ID, and when they do it's in the form of Al-Qaeda membership card.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

And on that day- I go to Greyhound Unlimited.

A bus might not be all that different, if we ever go into a stage of high alert where Amtrak has to clamp down.

Even now, try getting onto a bus w/o a ticket, or if you manage to, be unable to show the driver your stub. IMHO, you will be kicked off too.

Plus, the back of my bus tickets contain all the legal language for searching luggage, and even to down right prohibit any.

Yea, I take the bus to the Amtrak station. Several buses a day go back and forth from 5 blocks from my house, to right in front of the station.

I always carry my ticket stub. Perhaps you missed the point- the idea of a TSA style sweep for any type of "terrorist" would END my love affair with Amtrak.

 

[Steve4031]

I read on another website that occassionally passengers have tried to snag a free ride by swiping a seat check and then sitting under it. Thus it is always a good idea to have the ticket stub and ID. I can't imagine traveling without an ID. In fact, I traveled on a cruise last summer, and insisted that my girl friend take her passport with her when we got off the ship. I took mine. She thought I was overacting. I could just see some officious idiot in one of those small countries raising an issue about identification as we are trying to to get back on the ship. So the moral of the story is use common sense. Have government ID and keep your ticket stub.

 

[AlanB]

I've heard elsewhere that the threats from radical Islam have not let up at all. I assume Amtrak is merely responding to on-going threats

And checking ID helps because terrorists rarely carry ID, and when they do it's in the form of Al-Qaeda membership card.

More likely that Amtrak is doing it just to keep the TSA happy and out of Amtrak's business as much as possible.

Of course it's also yet another useless endeavor. The terrorists that flew into the towers not only had tickets, several of them actually had valid New Jersey drivers’ licenses.

On the other hand it will help to catch those stealing their passage, which I can support.

 

[PRR 60]

I always carry my ticket stub. Perhaps you missed the point- the idea of a TSA style sweep for any type of "terrorist" would END my love affair with Amtrak.

No air, no train, no bus. Next option: walking? Get some good shoes.

 

[PRR 60]

...More likely that Amtrak is doing it just to keep the TSA happy and out of Amtrak's business as much as possible.
Of course it's also yet another useless endeavor. The terrorists that flew into the towers not only had tickets, several of them actually had valid New Jersey drivers’ licenses.

On the other hand it will help to catch those stealing their passage, which I can support.

Since the original posting said the "sweep" only involved checking ticket stubs and not ID, isn't it "more likely" that this was a simple ticket check to ensure they were not carrying stowaways and had nothing to do with terrorists and the TSA? The TSA gets blamed for a lot of stuff. Maybe this time they are not at fault.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I have found if you are polite with the Conductor when you first board or they come on duty, he or she will most likely remember you and know indeed you belong on the train. So many pax just seem to scamper onto the train and disappear into their seats or rooms never to be seen again (I'm guessing they eventually get off )

 

[haolerider]

...More likely that Amtrak is doing it just to keep the TSA happy and out of Amtrak's business as much as possible.
Of course it's also yet another useless endeavor. The terrorists that flew into the towers not only had tickets, several of them actually had valid New Jersey drivers’ licenses.

On the other hand it will help to catch those stealing their passage, which I can support.

Since the original posting said the "sweep" only involved checking ticket stubs and not ID, isn't it "more likely" that this was a simple ticket check to ensure they were not carrying stowaways and had nothing to do with terrorists and the TSA? The TSA gets blamed for a lot of stuff. Maybe this time they are not at fault.

You are on the money. This is a normal procedure for Conductors, especially when there is a crew change. The conductor wants to be sure everyone on the train has a ticket and is basically in the right place, especially in a heavily occupied train with lots of on&off movement at night. All the discussion of TSA and terrorists really don't enter into this kind of process - sorry. If TSA and Security are involved, you will see more than a Conductor with a radio.