SCA asking for tips.... is that allowed?

[AG1]

It is nice to have Triley, FormerOBS, and Hal tell their viewpoint on this subject as having been on the other side. Thank you for coming into this topic !

While Amtrak is required to add projected tips as wages, this amount is adjusted or reconciled with the actual amount received (or reported) per employee on the tax forms. No employee is being taxed for projected tips he did not actually receive.

 

[Fred Wis.]

Thank you to the current and former employees who posted on this topic. I have learned a few things today, as i often do, while reading posts on this discussion board. I enjoy train travel,and appreciate when an Amtrak employee goes above and beyond. Even little things like service with a smile, or asking how I slept, in the morning or even a "good morning". I tend to be a light tipper. I am self employed in an industry that does not pay well. But my job is my passion and i love it, so I keep doing it. This means my train travel is limited to maybe once every 3 or 4 years. It also means a 3 to 5 dollar tip is substantial for me. We save for usually a year or 2 to be able to take a trip. I have learned the details of how tipping is handled in the system, but also that i should do a better job of verbally thanking service providers.I tend not to do that , thinking my small tips, accompanied with a verbal thank you might be misconstrued as cheap.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Well, when I splurge and go to an expensive restaurant, I realize the maitre'd and probably even the server makes a lot more than I do.

Not in hourly wages they don't. Unless you're living below the poverty line or something. In most American restaurants the vast majority of the frontline service staff's income is from tips. However, as has been mentioned many times before, this is not the case on Amtrak.

But I don't try to figure out if he's well-paid or has a health benefit, retirement plan, etc. But most people that work for tips know that some just won't (or can't) and unless the customer is the "demanding" type, just let it go.

It's actually very easy to figure out since 99% of the time frontline service staff do not receive meaningful benefits and retirement plans in the US market. Unlike most service staff Amtrak falls into the rare 1% of service staff that still receive full benefits and traditional retirement plans. On top of that there is virtually nothing to "demand" of them as they have nearly nothing to work with. Even if they wanted to bend over backward for you there's nowhere left to bend.

I have been told that service attendants in the dining car are taxed extra based on the total sales of the dining car, to account for being taxed for what Amtrak figures they made in sales.

While this is true it's also intended to be based on what average customers generally tip. If almost nobody is tipping Amtrak dining car staff, either because they're already well compensated or because they only provide minimal service standards, then tipping expectations for tax purposes should be relatively minor.

 

[AlamoWye]

That is why I said an "expensive restaurant." Many servers in these restaurants make $50K or more easily. And they receive benefits. I certainly don't consider the mom-and-pop taquerias in San Antonio "expensive restaurants."

 

[Devil's Advocate]

That is why I said an "expensive restaurant." Many servers in these restaurants make $50K or more easily.

As I said last time...

Not in hourly wages they don't

In my experience this is true regardless of cost or exclusivity, at least among sit down table service restaurants. Which is one of the reasons I almost always tip in conventional restaurants. Just to be clear I don't want to take away the benefits that Amtrak staff enjoy. It's only fair that they receive what they were promised. That being said this realization does contribute to my decision to tip such workers.

And they receive benefits.

They certainly don't receive Amtrak level benefits and pension plans.

 

[Bob Dylan]

As always it's very informative to read the posts from Amtrak employees ( and Retired ones too! )and compare them with those from Amtrak customers and interested observers.

I see the points made by all of the posters and think that Chris (DA) really makes an important point that the average American doesn't realize, that most service workers in America are underpaid, overworked and without benefits!

Being a retired Government employee, I'm one of those fortunate ones that has a guaranteed pension, Social Security and Good Health Insurance. ( Very Important these days!)

I don't begrudge Amtrak employees their pay and benefits, they earn them, but do think that the vast majority of the Amtrak employees that do their jobs well, have good customer skills, are just like the Law Enforcement employees that cover up for the lazy,surly, easy riders and the few really bad apples.

As I've asked before, why have lots of Americans been fooled into joining the bash the working folks politicians and Billionaires that own 90% of this Nation's wealth?

It's a HUGE Question that isn't being asked or acted on by our politicians and so called "leaders".( except for Bernie and the hated Socialists and Liberals that care about their Brothers and Sisters).

 

[PerRock]

That is why I said an "expensive restaurant." Many servers in these restaurants make $50K or more easily.

As I said last time...

Not in hourly wages they don't

In my experience this is true regardless of cost or exclusivity, at least among sit down table service restaurants. Which is one of the reasons I almost always tip in conventional restaurants. Just to be clear I don't want to take away the benefits that Amtrak staff enjoy. It's only fair that they receive what they were promised. That being said this realization does contribute to my decision to tip such workers.

And they receive benefits.

They certainly don't receive Amtrak level benefits and pension plans.

Where I live, if you want to make a "decent" wage hourly in front-of-house restaurants it's better to find a mid-range bar/pub then one of the fancy fine-dinning restaurants. But even still they're making under minimum. With some very few exceptions, you can pretty safely assume that if someone is front-of-house in a restaurant they're making less then minimum wage, not counting tips.

peter

 

[seat38a]

As someone who worked for years serving tables in college, I'm quite familiar with the tips but that still does not mean, I'll leave a tip for counter service, takeouts or for surely table service like I got on SWC. Also, minimum wage for tipped employees is a State by State issue. California requires EVERYONE weather they get tipped or not to be payed minimum wage for hours worked and one can actually make a decent living, and even better than professionals while earning tips.

The issue of "decent" wage is really a local issue, since many states, allow employers to pay less than minimum for hours worked. And the ones who are not getting minimum wage after tips, are getting stiffed by the employers and need to take it up with whatever authority. As I understand it, if the total wages including tips is less than minimum, then the employer is liable for the difference.

 

[BCL]

As someone who worked for years serving tables in college, I'm quite familiar with the tips but that still does not mean, I'll leave a tip for counter service, takeouts or for surely table service like I got on SWC. Also, minimum wage for tipped employees is a State by State issue. California requires EVERYONE weather they get tipped or not to be payed minimum wage for hours worked and one can actually make a decent living, and even better than professionals while earning tips.

The issue of "decent" wage is really a local issue, since many states, allow employers to pay less than minimum for hours worked. And the ones who are not getting minimum wage after tips, are getting stiffed by the employers and need to take it up with whatever authority. As I understand it, if the total wages including tips is less than minimum, then the employer is liable for the difference.

I guess one particular profession where tips are a huge part of pay would be card dealers. I kind of feel bad when I see few tips even on a low limit table. However, a lot of places pool tips, and each table has a box for day/night/swing shifts. I remember one dealer telling me that one huge high roller was throwing thousands in tips at a time one night, and that all dealers working there that night got over $10,000 each after this guy was spreading out over a million in tips. I don't suppose Amtrak gets anything like that.

Some people are notorious. Michael Jordan is probably the most. He's well known for leaving small tips for service workers, but he leaves nothing for card dealers. Card dealers have told stories that he'd be hanging out playing blackjack with Charles Barkley, and every time Chuck would tip a dealer, MJ would try to talk him out of it on principle.

 

[PVD]

Well, despite my stated opinions on tipping in general, as to the original question posed, even a "softie" like myself thinks an overt action to request a tip would be wrong. A polite comment at some point that it is acceptable, or a tray on the service counter is fine, but despite my not having witnessed it, I have no doubt that there are those that cross the line. I try to take economics out of the equation and focus on the service being delivered, if a cab driver hit lotto and kept working, he'd still be a cab driver, and that is a service for which a gratuity is customarily extended.

 

[Hal]

Well, when I splurge and go to an expensive restaurant, I realize the maitre'd and probably even the server makes a lot more than I do.

Not in hourly wages they don't. Unless you're living below the poverty line or something. In most American restaurants the vast majority of the frontline service staff's income is from tips. However, as has been mentioned many times before, this is not the case on Amtrak.

But I don't try to figure out if he's well-paid or has a health benefit, retirement plan, etc. But most people that work for tips know that some just won't (or can't) and unless the customer is the "demanding" type, just let it go.

It's actually very easy to figure out since 99% of the time frontline service staff do not receive meaningful benefits and retirement plans in the US market. Unlike most service staff Amtrak falls into the rare 1% of service staff that still receive full benefits and traditional retirement plans. On top of that there is virtually nothing to "demand" of them as they have nearly nothing to work with. Even if they wanted to bend over backward for you there's nowhere left to bend.

I have been told that service attendants in the dining car are taxed extra based on the total sales of the dining car, to account for being taxed for what Amtrak figures they made in sales.

While this is true it's also intended to be based on what average customers generally tip. If almost nobody is tipping Amtrak dining car staff, either because they're already well compensated or because they only provide minimal service standards, then tipping expectations for tax purposes should be relatively minor.

About ten years ago which was the last time I had a discussion with a tipped Amtrak employee on the subject of tips, the figure 8% being withheld for taxes was mentioned. So I guess they assume that with some not tipping that employees are averaging 8% of receipts. I have never been a tipped employee so don't take the above % as gospel.

As for whether Amtrak employees are allowed to ask for tips, that has been answered, they are not. They should not.

Personally out in the non Amtrak world when I have been asked for tips I was annoyed and considered it tacky.

On the question of compensation, I guess I am old school. I don't tip because the workers wages depend on the tips, I think that being the case now in most of the food industry is atrocious. Workers in the food service industry should receive a living wage from their employers. I tip because I was taught it was what a grown up does when receiving good or better service. So I don't think about the amount of the workers compensation. I have and will continue to tip because it is customary, what an adult is expected to do, not basing my tipping on what I think is the workers compensation.

It is a shame that tipping in the US has morphed into customers becoming in some sense the employer. Again I think that is wrong. In other parts of the world that is not the case, and tipping is minimal. I think that is a much better way. When I travel in those countries I go by the motto of when in Rome do as the Romans. But in the US until our culture changes, I will tip. When I purchase a meal in the Amtrak dining car, I have a number of times, I tip based on service, not the servers compensation.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[seat38a]

Well, when I splurge and go to an expensive restaurant, I realize the maitre'd and probably even the server makes a lot more than I do.

Not in hourly wages they don't. Unless you're living below the poverty line or something. In most American restaurants the vast majority of the frontline service staff's income is from tips. However, as has been mentioned many times before, this is not the case on Amtrak.

But I don't try to figure out if he's well-paid or has a health benefit, retirement plan, etc. But most people that work for tips know that some just won't (or can't) and unless the customer is the "demanding" type, just let it go.

It's actually very easy to figure out since 99% of the time frontline service staff do not receive meaningful benefits and retirement plans in the US market. Unlike most service staff Amtrak falls into the rare 1% of service staff that still receive full benefits and traditional retirement plans. On top of that there is virtually nothing to "demand" of them as they have nearly nothing to work with. Even if they wanted to bend over backward for you there's nowhere left to bend.

I have been told that service attendants in the dining car are taxed extra based on the total sales of the dining car, to account for being taxed for what Amtrak figures they made in sales.

While this is true it's also intended to be based on what average customers generally tip. If almost nobody is tipping Amtrak dining car staff, either because they're already well compensated or because they only provide minimal service standards, then tipping expectations for tax purposes should be relatively minor.

About ten years ago which was the last time I had a discussion with a tipped Amtrak employee on the subject of tips, the figure 8% being withheld for taxes was mentioned. So I guess they assume that with some not tipping that employees are averaging 8% of receipts. I have never been a tipped employee so don't take the above % as gospel.

As for whether Amtrak employees are allowed to ask for tips, that has been answered, they are not. They should not.

Personally out in the non Amtrak world when I have been asked for tips I was annoyed and considered it tacky.

On the question of compensation, I guess I am old school. I don't tip because the workers wages depend on the tips, I think that being the case now in most of the food industry is atrocious. Workers in the food service industry should receive a living wage from their employers. I tip because I was taught it was what a grown up does when receiving good or better service. So I don't think about the amount of the workers compensation. I have and will continue to tip because it is customary, what an adult is expected to do, not basing my tipping on what I think is the workers compensation.

It is a shame that tipping in the US has morphed into customers becoming in some sense the employer. Again I think that is wrong. In other parts of the world that is not the case, and tipping is minimal. I think that is a much better way. When I travel in those countries I go by the motto of when in Rome do as the Romans. But in the US until our culture changes, I will tip. When I purchase a meal in the Amtrak dining car, I have a number of times, I tip based on service, not the servers compensation.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The 8% is what the IRS mandates for all tipped positions to be withheld. That is what was withheld when I was serving tables. Not sure how they do it at Amtrak, but at most restaurants, the POS system will prompt you to enter your actual tip to be correctly reported.

 

[FormerOBS]

It is nice to have Triley, FormerOBS, and Hal tell their viewpoint on this subject as having been on the other side. Thank you for coming into this topic !

While Amtrak is required to add projected tips as wages, this amount is adjusted or reconciled with the actual amount received (or reported) per employee on the tax forms. No employee is being taxed for projected tips he did not actually receive.

Not quite true. There have been times when my statement of actual tips received has been ignored, and the Company's projected estimate (i.e., a higher amount) has been submitted to IRS.

 

[Asher]

The thing I'm learning is the next time I tip a dinner server, I'm handing the money to them so some un-scrupulous, cheap, non conforming tightwad doesn't decide to take matters into their own hands.☺

 

[AG1]

It is nice to have Triley, FormerOBS, and Hal tell their viewpoint on this subject as having been on the other side. Thank you for coming into this topic !

While Amtrak is required to add projected tips as wages, this amount is adjusted or reconciled with the actual amount received (or reported) per employee on the tax forms. No employee is being taxed for projected tips he did not actually receive.

Not quite true. There have been times when my statement of actual tips received has been ignored, and the Company's projected estimate (i.e., a higher amount) has been submitted to IRS.

You could have filed a grievance with your union steward . Edit changed to past tense.

 

[AG1]

The thing I'm learning is the next time I tip a dinner server, I'm handing the money to them so some un-scrupulous, cheap, non conforming tightwad doesn't decide to take matters into their own hands.☺

I usually hide my tip under a dish where only the server can see it when clearing the table.

 

[tricia]

On the question of compensation, I guess I am old school. I don't tip because the workers wages depend on the tips, I think that being the case now in most of the food industry is atrocious. Workers in the food service industry should receive a living wage from their employers. I tip because I was taught it was what a grown up does when receiving good or better service. So I don't think about the amount of the workers compensation. I have and will continue to tip because it is customary, what an adult is expected to do, not basing my tipping on what I think is the workers compensation.

It is a shame that tipping in the US has morphed into customers becoming in some sense the employer. Again I think that is wrong. In other parts of the world that is not the case, and tipping is minimal. I think that is a much better way. When I travel in those countries I go by the motto of when in Rome do as the Romans. But in the US until our culture changes, I will tip. When I purchase a meal in the Amtrak dining car, I have a number of times, I tip based on service, not the servers compensation.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The way I see it, in the current real (not ideal) world, here in the US, there are two reasons why I tip:

1) If it's a situation (like most restaurants) where the waiter or other recipient will not be paid even a minimum wage for taking care of me if I don't tip, then I tip generously for even minimally competent service.

2) If, as on Amtrak, I know the recipient is decently paid and tips are just "extra", I don't tip someone just for doing their job but do tip when they go above and beyond that for me, either in providing an extra service or just being extra pleasant or kind.

I don't think the 20%-of-menu-price tipping calculation applies on Amtrak--that's a rate intended BOTH to make up the shortfall in the waiter's wages AND to reward good service.

However, I have sometimes tipped on Amtrak for a third reason: 3) Defensively. on a long ride when I'll have several meals in the dining car. I've found that if the service is less-than-good and I don't tip at my first meal in the dining car, some crews will be downright cold and even more less-than-good to me at subsequent meals.

In the future I'm inclined to stick to scenario 2) when on Amtrak, and if I don't leave a tip consider taking subsequent meals in my room--tipping the SCA appropriately for delivering them, of course.

Only semi-relatedly, responding to a post (Fred Wis, post 77) quite a ways up in this long thread: If you offer a small tip with a genuine thank-you, and the response you get is snarky, you have nothing to be ashamed of--but the tip recipient does, and should probably be in another line of work.

 

[FormerOBS]

It is nice to have Triley, FormerOBS, and Hal tell their viewpoint on this subject as having been on the other side. Thank you for coming into this topic !

While Amtrak is required to add projected tips as wages, this amount is adjusted or reconciled with the actual amount received (or reported) per employee on the tax forms. No employee is being taxed for projected tips he did not actually receive.

Not quite true. There have been times when my statement of actual tips received has been ignored, and the Company's projected estimate (i.e., a higher amount) has been submitted to IRS.

You could have filed a grievance with your union steward . Edit changed to past tense.

It was generally ancient history by the time I found out about it, & very hard to document.

Tom

 

[jis]

This discussion about what is reported by Amtrak to IRS suggests to me that Amtrak's HR department has some serious issues to work through.

i have started a thread for discussing such issue under Random Discussions which can be found here:

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/68666-amtraks-practices-on-reporting-tips-to-irs/

 

[cirdan]

Worse still is how some high schools allow girls to do car washes at the local gas station to raise money. WHILE DRESSED IN SKIMPY BIKINIS!

Wait, is there such a thing as a non-skimpy full coverage bikini?

Somewhat... There are bikinis that have lets-call-it skirting that hangs down from the top of the breasts to the midriff region and bikinis with mini skirts built-in. Women's bathing suits in general however are pretty revealing however.

peter

I don't think it's a question of the actual size or model.

There are bikinis that are designed to be comfortable and such that are designed to make guys of a certain inclination drool. I don't think you can define it by certain features, but you can nevertheless see the intention of the designer..

I^m no prude, and when it comes to adults, they can within reason and with respect to the location, dress pretty much as they want as far as I'm concerned.

When it come sto kids, I think there is a wrong message being taught if the skimpier the bikini, the bigger the tip. I would be very concerned if that was my daughter.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Guess I'm not as funny as I thought.

 

[Bob Dylan]

And of course "Just Say No! " as espoused by Nancy Reagan and Sarah Palins Daughter has to be part of the program also!

What could possibly go wrong with this scheme?

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

The reasons I usually tip include the following...

...

Future recognition - Amtrak staff never seem to remember me from previous trips regardless

...

Back when we were traveling on the Silvers a few times a year, we got the same SCA often. He remembered us, and remembered the special little things my kid enjoyed. In stark contrast to many here, I am quite proud to say I tipped him, and tipped him well.

The attendant in the ClubAcela remember us, and even greeted me by name when I walked up to his desk.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Worse still is how some high schools allow girls to do car washes at the local gas station to raise money. WHILE DRESSED IN SKIMPY BIKINIS!

Wait, is there such a thing as a non-skimpy full coverage bikini?

Yes. They are called pants and shirts.

I am glad I am not your neighbor if you wear only a skimpy bikini whenever you wash your car.

 

[Meat Puppet]

2 weeks ago aboard the EB, LSA announced on the intercom that "Gratuity is not included in the dining car prices" at least 4-5 times a day.