Salt Lake City Station discussion

[jis]

Arguably Salt Lake City currently has an Amtrak station that is less than desirable in several ways, and certainly not one that a city like Salt Lake City deserves. There have been several proposals boiling up of late to spend some real money to improve the situation in a big way. One of them proposes to move the tracks into an underground alignment adjacent to the Rio Grande Depot building and make the Rio Grande Depot building the head house. Here is an article on this subject:

https://buildingsaltlake.com/the-ri...ary-districts-gets-salt-lake-citys-attention/

 

[jiml]

It was hard to tell if they hope to emulate the "concrete canyon" in Reno or improve on its shortcomings.

 

[jis]

It was hard to tell if they hope to emulate the "concrete canyon" in Reno or improve on its shortcomings.

At present we are quite far from a point where the details at that level can be determined, specially considering what happened in Reno was not because that was necessarily the original plan, but because that is all that funding could be found for.

 

[jiml]

At present we are quite far from a point where the details at that level can be determined, specially considering what happened in Reno was not because that was necessarily the original plan, but because that is all that funding could be found for.

Understood, however its inclusion in the discussion paper sets up the potential of a lower cost choice for the decision-makers. That may not have been their intent but it could be the (unfortunate) result for what otherwise appears as a well thought-out proposal.

 

[jis]

Understood, however its inclusion in the discussion paper sets up the potential of a lower cost choice for the decision-makers. That may not have been their intent but it could be the (unfortunate) result for what otherwise appears as a well thought-out proposal.

As things stand right now, this is mostly building castles in the air and most likely nothing will come of it. There are so many steps between now and anything happening that I have low confidence that anything remotely close to perfect will be funded and built. However one can hope that it is possible that something may be built that is better than the current situation.

 

[NES28]

The promoters of this concept have had a lot of success at advancing it. See this recording of this new video presentation that was shown live by the HIgh Speed Rail Alliance on Oct. 20: HSRA presentation on Rio Grande Station.

 

[b1xn00d]

Definitely still in the planning stages, but SLC recently got a $3M federal grant to study what sounds suspiciously like that proposal - so at least some politicians have been willing to earmark money for this, and rightly so IMO

https://www.slc.gov/transportation/raise-planning-grant/

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

In the discussion part at the end of the HSRA video, the speaker describes the differences between he and his partner's original plan, and what went out for funds for planning. Mostly similar. The original plan had the "train box" (they've been told that's better than calling it a tunnel or a trench) more enclosed on top. Another excellent video from HSRA. In this case, the plan for the station is more than that: it's moving rail traffic onto a new corridor closer to downtown, leaving the old yard for contemporary type development. What made it popular was preventing the current situation of busy road rail crossings tied up with long slow or stopped trains.

 

[Paniolo Man]

I have had the pleasure of speaking with Christian and Cameron on the subject. I'm hopeful that this plan can be realized. Here's a very informative video Christian made detailing the Rio Grande Plan's highlights:

.

 

[Siegmund]

Rio Grande Station itself was a very rough part of town until quite recently, though it has been gentrified as downtown skyscrapers slowly crept southward, and they made a big push to kick the homeless out of Rio Grande Park (it used to be their favorite spot in the whole area.)

It's really a shame that they didn't get an integrated FrontRunner/Amtrak facility near one of the old stations, like Denver did. But that ship sailed quite a long time ago now.

Is it worth pursuing now? Well... I have to say, not really, not with one train a day coming through in the middle of the night. You could build a palace and people would not take the train to Salt Lake on the current schedule. Midnight and 6-7AM timeslots were bad enough. I'd be a lot more interested in seeing this kind of investment if I thought there was better service going to come along with it.

 

[Paniolo Man]

Rio Grande Station itself was a very rough part of town until quite recently, though it has been gentrified as downtown skyscrapers slowly crept southward, and they made a big push to kick the homeless out of Rio Grande Park (it used to be their favorite spot in the whole area.)

It's really a shame that they didn't get an integrated FrontRunner/Amtrak facility near one of the old stations, like Denver did. But that ship sailed quite a long time ago now.

Is it worth pursuing now? Well... I have to say, not really, not with one train a day coming through in the middle of the night. You could build a palace and people would not take the train to Salt Lake on the current schedule. Midnight and 6-7AM timeslots were bad enough. I'd be a lot more interested in seeing this kind of investment if I thought there was better service going to come along with it.

One train a day? This station would serve Frontrunner commuter service as well. In addition there is a high likelihood more service is on the way. Pioneer and/or Desert Wind may get restored in the next several years. In addition to this UDOT/ITD/NDOT have all applied for funding to study Vegas-SLC and Boise-SLC regional service.

 

[jis]

Is it worth pursuing now? Well... I have to say, not really, not with one train a day coming through in the middle of the night. You could build a palace and people would not take the train to Salt Lake on the current schedule. Midnight and 6-7AM timeslots were bad enough. I'd be a lot more interested in seeing this kind of investment if I thought there was better service going to come along with it.

I would think that whatever is done would be primarily for the suburban FrontRunner service, with accommodation made for the single Amtrak train per day. It is certainly not worth building something new and huge for a single train. Heck we couldn't even get Amtrak to move to the head house that was built at the current station for the usual litany of excuses. It is entirely possible that a station is built and then Amtrak refuses to move or drags its feet till the next century, which what they did with the current station until everyone just gave up.

As for additional service, the only possibilities would appear to be restoration of the Desert Wind and the Pioneer, or a corresponding Regional incarnation. Potentially FrontRunner also could be extended a little ways further North towards Cache Junction. I am not sure there is much scope for extending South beyond Provo.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

In the presentation there is Tooele/Park City Service indicated - not sure if that's more than a study, but this seems to be geared for commuter/regional rail first.

 

[Paniolo Man]

I would think that whatever is done would be primarily for the suburban FrontRunner service, with accommodation made for the single Amtrak train per day. It is certainly not worth building something new and huge for a single train. Heck we couldn't even get Amtrak to move to the head house that was built at the current station for the usual litany of excuses. It is entirely possible that a station is built and then Amtrak refuses to move or drags its feet till the next century, which what they did with the current station until everyone just gave up.

As for additional service, the only possibilities would appear to be restoration of the Desert Wind and the Pioneer, or a corresponding Regional incarnation. Potentially FrontRunner also could be extended a little ways further North towards Cache Junction. I am not sure there is much scope for extending South beyond Provo.

South to Payson and north to Brigham City are both planned.

 

[jis]

South to Payson and north to Brigham City are both planned.

Good to know. I did know about Brigham City, but had somehow missed the Payson plans. Thanks.

 

[anilou]

We flew to Salt Lake City a few years ago to visit Yellowstone and returned to CA by train. Our plan was to check the bags at the Amtrak station, return the rental car to the airport and spend the 12 hours in SLC at leisure. No such luck. The small city of Oxnard has a transportation center which serves Amtrak and Metrolink as well as local and intercity buses. Why they can't figure out to do something similar in Utah is a mystery to me. The bus station next door to the closed Amtrak station would have held our bags for ten bucks each. In the end we spent the afternoon and evening at a downtown shopping mall, luggage in tow. Fortunately there was a Comicon convention happening, which made the people watching very entertaining.

 

[tgstubbs1]

It looks like one of the big advantages is reducing the size of the freeway ramps because they won't have to cross over the tracks, no matter how many trains use the station.
I wonder if they could run some trains to Wendover (NV) or maybe someplace east on the main line.

 

[Paniolo Man]

Fortunately, Salt Lake City seems very enthusiastic about this plan. UTA has been a little cold to the idea, the chair of the Board of Trustees has directly expressed criticism towards relocating Central Station.

Honestly, having UTA on board would be great. However if the state and city decide to move forward with The Rio Grande Plan, UTA really can't do much about it.

As to a station in Wendover. I know Amtrak and Wendover have had plans in the past. I'm not sure about the status of such plans.

 

[jccollins]

Did Amtrak ever move into the City's 'new' (circa-2005 IIRC) intermodal transportation hub next door to their trailers, or are they still operating the station out of the old modulated coaches there?

Around 2005-ish I recall seeing Amtrak offices (unused) in the then-new intermodal center. The issue they had was it was a bit of a walk from the new intermodal center over to the platform while the modulated coach station was right on the platform.

 

[danasgoodstuff]

But if they bring the Pioneer back plus service to Vegas, then with the local service it will be plenty busy.

 

[Willbridge]

Did Amtrak ever move into the City's 'new' (circa-2005 IIRC) intermodal transportation hub next door to their trailers, or are they still operating the station out of the old modulated coaches there?

Around 2005-ish I recall seeing Amtrak offices (unused) in the then-new intermodal center. The issue they had was it was a bit of a walk from the new intermodal center over to the platform while the modulated coach station was right on the platform.

But if they bring the Pioneer back plus service to Vegas, then with the local service it will be plenty busy.

They're still in the "temporary" location.

 

[jis]

They're still in the "temporary" location.

Hence my bitchin’ about it a few posts back on this thread.

 

[jccollins]

Got it. IIRC (from a then-agent at SLC) the gripe at the time was Amtrak did not want to pay rent for the really nice and separate ticketing and waiting room space the City designed and built for them in the new intermodal facility, but Amtrak officially stated that the new facility was too far from the platform. In reality, the walk from the new station to platform is far less than that required in Sacramento, CA or Los Angeles Union Station. But it worked as a believable excuse for John Q. Public.

 

[Paniolo Man]

It's worth noting, the building Amtrak refused to move into was a restored freight depot. Ultimately it was only occupied by Greyhound and UTA Customer Service. This building still bears the original and formal name of Salt Lake Central Station: Intermodal Hub.

UTA Customer Service was the last to move out on the second of this month. The building is slated for demolition in the immediate future.

I have attached pictures I took a couple years ago of Amtrak's 25 year old "temporary" station building and of the "Intermodal Hub" building slated for demolition.

 

[Willbridge]

Greyhound is still showing the intermodal facility as their main stop in SLC.

https://www.greyhound.com/en-us/bus-station-850180?redirecturl=true
At the same time, in their ticketing system on line they have the BOI<>SLC link on the bus equivalent of the Pioneer blocked off, so PDX<>SLC routings show travel via SAC, sometimes all the way down to LAX. PDX<>DEN is showing the "Hill Lines" routing via SPK and CAS. Worse yet, like Amtrak they charge for the zany optional routings.

As the SLC<>BOI segment has been handed over to Salt Lake Express, this may be some sort of interline hassle. Salt Lake Express, however, still is shown in Greyhound's website at the Intermodal, as well. But in the Salt Lake Express website map, they show their SLC stop as being at Temple Square, like Trailways once was. (Not the same corner, though. Twys was at 160 S West Avenue.)

Salt Lake Express took over the SLC<>BOI segment from Greyhound Lines in 2022.
https://www.kmvt.com/2022/06/15/salt-lake-express-announces-direct-route-boise-salt-lake-city/
It is possible that management has been stressed by their recent accident near Malad. However, they are losing revenue with Greyhound/Flix routing traffic around them.