Questions about P40 #803

[P40Power]

I remember reading on another fourm that 803 was the first Genesis unit delievered to Amtrak, not 800, and that it was the unit used in the big Genesis introduction at Washington Union Station in 93, can any one comfirm this?

Also Ive heard that many of the early P40s, such as 803 had their carbodies made in Germany, is this true and if so why would they have them fabricated in Germany and how many units were done over there?

 

[AMTRAK-P42]

Well, I do know #803 was the first one delivered to Amtrak. I remember reading about it in a Trains magazine.

 

[P40Power]

Ohh Sweet! So 803 has the legacy of being the first Genesis unit to operate for Amtrak. . . now I just wonder if its carbody was built in Germany.

 

[AMTRAK-P42]

Ohh Sweet!  So 803 has the legacy of being the first Genesis unit to operate for Amtrak. . . now I just wonder if its carbody was built in Germany.

I guess you picked the right loco there P40, mine is #207, the newest one. So I guess you and I are "opposites". :lol:

 

[Amfleet]

That's wierd, there is no #800, #801, or #802 or were they manufactured at later dates?

 

[AMTRAK-P42]

That's wierd, there is no #800, #801, or #802 or were they manufactured at later dates?

There are P40's with thoose #'s, but the first one delivered to Amtrak was #803. I have never quite understood the details, I will try and find the old article later tonight.

 

[AlanB]

That's wierd, there is no #800, #801, or #802 or were they manufactured at later dates?

There are P40's with thoose #'s, but the first one delivered to Amtrak was #803. I have never quite understood the details, I will try and find the old article later tonight.

That's not unusual at all. The first Acela set tested was not the first one accepted and put into revenue service. In fact the first four sets manufactured were amongst the last to be accepted and put into service. The first two sets were just empty shells, at least as far as the passenger coaches.

So it would not suprise me at all to know that P40 #803 was the first in service for Amtrak.

 

[P40Power]

Maybe they completed the units before 803 earlier, but maybe 803 sucessfully completed its testing period before the others, maybe the others had some problem or something, its odd though. I think the same sorta deal went for the F40PHs, I remember hearing that 200 was NOT the first F40PH delieved in 76.

 

[AlanB]

Well in Acela's case, the first two power cars accepted by Amtrak were 2009 & 2020 on October 17, 2000. Power cars 2000 & 2001 were not delivered and accepted until October 2002 and June 2003 respectively.

The first HHP-8 accepted was #655. Number 650 the first in the series was not accepted until almost a year after 655.

So it would appear that not receiving engines in order is the norm and not at all unusual.

 

[P40Power]

Speaking of the HHP-8s, how are they performing? Do/did they have many bugs like their Acela Cousions?

 

[AlanB]

Speaking of the HHP-8s, how are they performing? Do/did they have many bugs like their Acela Cousions?

Well they suffered from many of the same bugs, although I'm not sure if they have all of the same bugs. They certainly had the cowling problem and they also had the bracket problem that sidelined the Acela fleet last summer.

 

[P40Power]

Those Acelas sure look UGLY I think with their Cowling off, they definatly add to their sleek and fast look and without them they just look cobby. How were these cowlings held on their, welds?

 

[Amfleet]

The cowlings were originally welded on, but that did not hold too well. They are now being re-attached with bolts.

 

[P40Power]

They must have had it on by crappy tack welds or something, if it were a good weld with solid penitration the whole way through they would have definatly been able to stay on I think.

 

[AMTRAK-P42]

They must have had it on by crappy tack welds or something, if it were a good weld with solid penitration the whole way through they would have definatly been able to stay on I think.

Might it have something to do with the extreme colds up there during the winter?

 

[P40Power]

True the expansion/contraction of the metals due to the ever changing extremes of the Northeast might have weakend the welds up, couple that with the force of splitting the air at 125+ mph, yeah I can see them failing because of that. But like I said, usually a good weld can hold up to alot.

 

[Amfleet]

They must have had it on by crappy tack welds or something, if it were a good weld with solid penitration the whole way through they would have definatly been able to stay on I think.

Might it have something to do with the extreme colds up there during the winter?

Good point. The high temperatures that summer could have also caused the yaw damper brackets to crack.

As for the cowling weld, I don't know if it is a tack or a straight through. Hopefully the bolts will keep them up.

 

[AlanB]

Good point. The high temperatures that summer could have also caused the yaw damper brackets to crack.

I don't think that heat or cold had anything to due with the yaw damper failure. That was partly stress, but largely simply making the bracket to thin. Now that may have been done for weight purposes, but personally I think that it was done simply to reduce costs on making the power cars.

IMHO, that's why Bombardier is blaming the track conditions, because they know that they cut the corner on that part and they don't want to take the blame.

 

[P40Power]

Well the whole ordeal has created bad times for Bombardier. They have been pondering dumping off their Ski Doo snowmobile division, the division that started the whole company! The ironic thing is that Ski-Doo launched a totally radical snowmobile this past season, the REV which was spossed to be the most extreme snowmobile going but ended up by being plagued with mechanical problems, kinda like the Acela. Maybe this is a common thing in all divisions within Bombardier creating all new radical things?

 

[Amfleet]

Well the whole ordeal has created bad times for Bombardier. They have been pondering dumping off their Ski Doo snowmobile division, the division that started the whole company! The ironic thing is that Ski-Doo launched a totally radical snowmobile this past season, the REV which was spossed to be the most extreme snowmobile going but ended up by being plagued with mechanical problems, kinda like the Acela. Maybe this is a common thing in all divisions within Bombardier creating all new radical things?

It's unfortunate because if Amtrak or VIA were to place a large passenger car order, it would probably end up with Bomb. The only other manufacturer is Alstom. I think they built the Pacific Surfliners and helped jointly with the Acela. I could see them building Viewliner IIs or Superliner IIIs.

 

[AMTRAK-P42]

Are there any actual plans to do so? Or is it just pure speculation?

 

[Amfleet]

I assume for purchasing new cars? Well according the Gunn's five year plan, 75 new "Heritage replacement" cars are supposed to be ordered. What they will be and who manufacturers them, I have no clue. I was just dreaming about the Superliner IIIs.

 

[P40Power]

Its about time for some new cars around Amtrak, its been 7 years since its last new long distance cars - the Viewliners. They have gotten some new corridor equipment around the system, california cars, talgos, acela, etc. And a TON of new locomotives. The Heritage cars are fine cars, but definatly need updating and the Viewliners could use some fellow single level sleepers to ease the strain on them.

 

[battalion51]

The Single Level fleet is definitely strained. New policy began on Thursday concerning the Silver Meteor. The Meteor will not have a Crew Dorm effective 07/25/03 until at least October. Management says that the crew dorms are stretched too thin so a route must lose its Dorm, the Meteor was the victim. Crew members will be reaccomodated in the various sleepers, pending availability.

 

[Viewliner]

The Single Level fleet is definitely strained. New policy began on Thursday concerning the Silver Meteor. The Meteor will not have a Crew Dorm effective 07/25/03 until at least October. Management says that the crew dorms are stretched too thin so a route must lose its Dorm, the Meteor was the victim. Crew members will be reaccomodated in the various sleepers, pending availability.

Really, this is surprising to hear that certainly won't make the crews happy. Why can't the dorm be taken off a shorter route?

One other question: Does the Cardinal use a dorm?