jis
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On every sleeper trip I have taken this year, and there have been several, I have been given my copy at each meal. So I guess YMMV.
Privatize food service?
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jis
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Yeah, that is what happened last year. But surprisingly, this year I was given my copy even if I did not have any extra to pay (which I seldom do). I noted that as an interesting change of behavior.
The black ink is because the computer that scans the checks to account for inventory only reads black ink. Sign in blue and the computer kicks out that check and claims that the customer never got their meal a that the LSA ripped off Amtrak.
I believe that Amtrak just pro-rates an amount per person per meal.
As for revenue from sleepers, do keep in mind that NARP took information from a GAO study a few years back and found that the sleepers do make an above the rails profit, even after subtracting out the revenue given over to the dining cars. This is not to say that the sleepers make a profit, just that they cover their expenses from the fares.
Amtrak food service is the new $300 defense budget hammer. While it is unrealistic to expect a dining car to turn a profit there is no reason that a coke that I can buy in bulk at COSTCO for 25 cents a can (and sells for $2) costs Amtrak $3.75 to serve. There has to be something wrong with this picture and I believe that theft is the reason. You are supposed to receive two sodas with dinner. I have never received more than one, even when I asked. The other cans are most likly served in the FSA's homes. Also when you feed a 20 person crew that represents a 100% loss. In years past Pullman workers got a discount but had to pay for their food. Amtrak is the only train that feeds their crew for free and the workers don't even pay as much as a penny of federal income tax on it.
Ispolkom
Engineer
How odd. I didn't realize they still made scanners like that. Even the 12-year-old ballot scanners my county uses (there's a primary on Tuesday, which is why I'm thinking of them) can read any color of ink or pencil or marker.
G
guest
Guest
Lots of serious charges leveled here.
First, yes, you can buy that can of Coke at Costco and serve it to yourself and there is no additional cost beyond your purchase price.
A small store owner buys that can of Coke--in fact, the original purpose of Costco-like stores was to sell to small business--and then marks it up to $1 or $2 or whatever to cover his labor, fixed and other expenses. That's what Amtrak does in selling it for $2. The $3.75 total cost results, IMHO, from the fact that Amtrak pays its employees a living wage, which includes health benefits. I'm sure a lot of people would disagree with me here, but I am OK paying whatever is necessary for these workers to live a decent life, esp. if I have enough disposable income to purchase a sleeper.
Where is it written that you get two sodas at dinner? Even if true, your assumption that the cans you were not served are in someone's home is irresponsible.
Since Amtrak is the only train in the US, it goes without saying that there is no other train service feeding its employees. I would like to see figures on what this cost entails. In a lot of restaurant chains, meals are included for the help so Amtrak is not unique in catering to its employees in this way.
IN short, you need to come up with a lot more facts before accusing an entire class of employees of habitual theft.
Ryan
Court Jester
EB_OBS
Conductor
Sleeping car meals can include up to two sodas or bottled waters per meal, this is true, however every single can and bottle not served must be returned to the commissary at the End of Trip.
EB_OBS
Conductor
The most expensive entree item, cost wise, that I've seen on an Amtrak train, since I've been here was the previous Salmon filet we used to have. It was around $7.00 - $8.00 per filet cost to Amtrak, which then the menu price as like $16.75. On average most Amtrak steaks cost them around $5.00.
What it costs Amtrak to feed it's crew is marginal at best. The IRS a long time ago stopped trying to tax employee meals at restaurants. The deal made supposedly had to do with the cost of uniforms and their continued maintenance by the employee being an expense offset by the free employee meal.
At Amtrak, employees must pay 50% of the cost of uniforms and of course the full expense of laundering and dry cleaning the uniforms.
What it costs Amtrak to feed it's crew is marginal at best. The IRS a long time ago stopped trying to tax employee meals at restaurants. The deal made supposedly had to do with the cost of uniforms and their continued maintenance by the employee being an expense offset by the free employee meal.
At Amtrak, employees must pay 50% of the cost of uniforms and of course the full expense of laundering and dry cleaning the uniforms.
G
guest
Guest
Thanks for injecting some facts into the discussion.
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Guestlsa
Guest
As a server I can't even tell how many times I handed the yellow copy to a diner pax only for them to leave it on table or handed back to me ! Also not workers try add stuff on without the knowledge of pax. I can't even count on my hand how many times I mess up or passenger and I had to ask them to resign their checks . All they want us to do is work for low wages with no benefits . I am single mom and we pay out pocket about 80% of stuff that we need for work .
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Guestlsa
Guest
So you think we should pay for our meals? after working 6 tables for 4 straight hours and been up for 9 hours do you think it's fair to make us pay for meals? No cause in reality some of us bring our own meals, also don't have time to sit and eat nice quiet decent meals ( folks would say oh you get to eat too?)
<br /><br /><br />
I ALWAYS bring my own meals! Let me tell you you eating a heavy meal and trying to then work or sleep doesn't work with me. Plus the fact that eating the same thing every night gets rather boring. I also wish my passengers would take their yellow check meal slips as well. As far as drinks and sodas, there is no reason for me to refuse! Someone is sitting down at night and trying to think up some crazy ways to screw the system. Come and work with me for a few trips and we shall see whether "stealing product" is the first thought that comes into your mind or getting the job done and getting to sleep for 3 hours takes priority.!
NW cannonball
Conductor
YES Amtrak employees - any person with a half a clue knows you do a difficult job and are NOT ripping passengers off. Very few passengers would work the on-board crew hours themselves.
In my experience the grumpiest surliest Amtrak On-Board crew have always been the ones serving the snack bar or the observation car - or whatever - 3 out of 4 of them are surly SOB's. Probably from having to stand in one place for so long. Most have been minimally polite - many have been just outright rude. [My experience has been on the EB, LSL, CS]
The few times I've met a snack-bar or mini-meal-car or whatever server that wasn't really grumpy and offensive they were only mildly off-putting - I've gave that person a 30% tip. The surly majority -- well - no way to say it on a polite web board they should try for a job in customer service for a software company that's where being offensive and demanding and and KMA works for higher pay.
SCA's and dining car people have been mostly helpful and polite.
The people serving snacks and such have been almost always either rude -short-tempered - or not there.
The Amtrak IG written testimony is interesting. The NEC trains earned $31.8 million in F&B revenue on expenses of $40.9 million.If my math is correct, the Amtrak cafe car fleet recovered 77% of its expenses, or slightly better than the Maine operation which is 75%. One has to wonder why Boardman did not point this out at the hearing. Boardman DID point this out in a subsequent letter
to employees.
Assuming he read the report, the only plausible explanation I can come up withis he would rather defend himself on the 57% average than open up a new line of questioning about why the LD trains recover less than44% of their F&B costs. Although the IG clearly stated the LD trains were responsible for over 80% of the losses (actually 87%!), you would think he would at leastpoint to the conclusions of his own work. Not suprisingly, on the NEC labor expense is 61% of revenue compared with LD's where labor is 135% of revenue. The report is available here: http://www.amtrakoig.gov/sites/default/files/reports/08022012____amtrak_oig_food__beverage_testimony.pdf
to employees.
Assuming he read the report, the only plausible explanation I can come up withis he would rather defend himself on the 57% average than open up a new line of questioning about why the LD trains recover less than44% of their F&B costs. Although the IG clearly stated the LD trains were responsible for over 80% of the losses (actually 87%!), you would think he would at leastpoint to the conclusions of his own work. Not suprisingly, on the NEC labor expense is 61% of revenue compared with LD's where labor is 135% of revenue. The report is available here: http://www.amtrakoig.gov/sites/default/files/reports/08022012____amtrak_oig_food__beverage_testimony.pdf
NW cannonball
Conductor
Thanks for the references -- useful data-
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jis
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See this article: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/26/uk-airlines-catering-idUSLNE85P01H20120626Do you have a reference that shows that airlines lose money on food service?To each his or her own, but I would rather have food available on a 50 hour train trip from CHI to the west coast! Note that even airlines lose money on food service!
It suggests that airline catering is by no means a loss making business. There is healthy M&A activity ion progress in that industry suggesting that there is money to be made. Airlines themselves are trying to get away from that business and moving towards contracting out to those that consider it their core business. Of course the last mile delivery will have to be through airline staff. However that does not preclude outfits like Singapore Airlines, which spun off its food services part as SATS sometime back from offering individualized menu selections in it business and first class services. Oddly enough, it appears that it is precisely in the sort of meal service that Amtrak loses most of its money, that airline catering actually makes its money, and airlines are actively competing in quality of meals provided etc. One huge difference of course is that there is no staff on board an operating aircraft that is wholly charged to the F&B account. Regular cabin staff who are paid for out of regular operations (at least for a significant proportion) plays the role of delivering F&B.
It stands to reason that just like in trains Coach passengers get to pay for their food, airline passengers in Coach go the same route. Though this has been a case only in domestic markets in some countries and is rather unusual even now on significant international legs.
This appears to be an area that is open to much analysis and discussion and search for solutions, and nothing is absolutely black and white in terms of what should or should not be done.
The Amtrak IGs testimony to the Congress contains a very interesting set of fact which would be interesting to juxtapose on what is happening in the airline industry F&B services both domestically and internationally.
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It is true the railroads always lost money on dining car service. The only specific reference I can find is the Rock Island of the 1950's had $1.38 in expenses for every $1 in revenue.
Perhaps the New Haven was an exception in that their bar lounge profits were enough to offset their food losses, but I cannot find a specific reference so may be urban legend.
Perhaps the New Haven was an exception in that their bar lounge profits were enough to offset their food losses, but I cannot find a specific reference so may be urban legend.
I have worked hard as weIl and have never worked for any employer that paid for my everyday meals. Why do you feel entitled to get your meals for free? Are you the only person that works hard? Except for the military on active duty, you are the only federal workers that get fed for free. I support a discount on food for Amtrak workers but I believe you should pay something for your food and drink just like all the rest of us.
As for my inference that there is food theft on Amtrak; I cannot say that there is and perhaps I am out of line, but when it cost $3.75 to serve a 12 oz can of coke that you can buy at any convenience store or mall for $1.00 something is terribly wrong with the system. If this cost issue is not addressed, we won't have this argument much longer (and you won't have a job) as food service will be eliminated by congress. I do not want to see this happen.
Aloha
Sad, but most folks that think this way are the same that would stoop that low themselves.
Sorry every restaurant I've ever worked in fed its staff. The staff meal isnt the food served to the customers, but it's often good food (baked ziti, chicken wings etc). In a lot of states it's required by law that the restaurant feed its staff.dlagrua said:
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Guestlsa
Guest
Been with Amtrak for 11 years and we get charge for stuff it come handed . I don't think you working a 6 day trip paying for 10 meals and still be able to make money . I always bring my food and guess where I get to eat it ... In my room! That's right . Not in diner and there are times where we don't even get because it's almost midnight we have to be up at 4 am the next morning .
amamba
Engineer
Clearly dlagrua has never worked for a restaurant or in food service, where the industry standard is often to provide meals for the staff.
Amtrak has a comprehensive benefits package for its employees. I am glad about this - I want employees to be paid a living wage. I don't have a problem with including food as a benefit for staff.
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