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How could raspberries (and other fruit) threaten national security?
Has nothing to do with national security. Has everything to do with spreading insects and disease.
Its one of these things that looks impressive and makes like the government is doing something, but is fairly futile when there is a 5000 odd mile long border for those nasty fruit flies to sneak across.

You can understand it for overseas travellers, but for travellers on the same continent it's quite pointless.
It's not quite pointless. If you're stopping people anyway at the border anyway, why not do an agricultural inspection? Even if you only slow the spread of pests, or reduce their rate of introduction, that is some accomplishment, since they travel much more slowly on their own.

I'm not sure how useful interstate inspections are, like what California does, but its borders are pretty hostile to invasive species.

There's a great article in last week's "New Yorker" on invasive species in Florida, including a great description of a death match between a 6-foot alligator and a giant Burmese python.
California does not have the interstate inspections anymore. Last time I drove back from Reno on I-80 the booths for the inspection were gone.

I always thought the California inspections were useless because the booths were after the first exit within the state. You could just as easily get off at the first exit and bypass them.
 
Yeah Cascadia, while you were being "watched" as you eliminated your fruit, some person was probably walking on to the train with a kilo of coke! :lol:
LOL Al, no doubt! Hey maybe fruit is a good ploy! You could go make a big deal about having fruit, make a fuss, get rid of it ostentatiously, then they'd be sick of you and send you on your way with your kilo! :) Remember Mel Brooks and Madeline Kahn going through security at the airport? Trying to keep their guns hidden by causing a huge disruption and being difficult. Which movie was that?
 
It's not quite pointless. If you're stopping people anyway at the border anyway, why not do an agricultural inspection? Even if you only slow the spread of pests, or reduce their rate of introduction, that is some accomplishment, since they travel much more slowly on their own.
It is fairly pointless. How many fruit fly laden fruits of mass destruction can one rail passenger carry across the border and how many insects flew across the border that day? Or does the wind only blow northwards and the Swat teams pick off the stragglers?
 
It's not quite pointless. If you're stopping people anyway at the border anyway, why not do an agricultural inspection? Even if you only slow the spread of pests, or reduce their rate of introduction, that is some accomplishment, since they travel much more slowly on their own.
It is fairly pointless. How many fruit fly laden fruits of mass destruction can one rail passenger carry across the border and how many insects flew across the border that day? Or does the wind only blow northwards and the Swat teams pick off the stragglers?
It may appear pointless and easy to circumvent, but anything that even reduces (even if it doesn't eliminate) the chance of an infested item being brought in is absolutely necessary to the food supply of the nation as a whole: some sources say that California provides a full third of the nation's agricultural output and is the nation's primary supply for a number of food products in the U.S., including tomatoes, almonds, grapes, cotton, apricots, and asparagus.

An invasion of hostile species hurting the agriculture industry in California would not be a good thing, to say the least.

I'm not an entomologist or biologist, but I would suspect that California's natural borders provide decent protection against migration of unwanted insects. In the southern half of the state, there are vast deserts on the other side of the border, and in the north, large stretches of non-arable land (forests, mountain ranges, etc.) form a natural barrier. California's agricultural regions (mostly the Central Valley) are fairly well isolated from the nearest other farming regions in other states. Again, I don't know much about bugs, but I don't think fruit flies do very well flying across 300 miles of desert or mountain ranges. Therefore, the only way one would get into the Central Valley is by being carried in an infected piece of produce.
 
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Within Canada we go through an agricultural inspection when boarding the ferry in Newfoundland to return to the mainland. This is similar to a customs inspection “please open your trunk” etc.

There is a potato blight in the soil on the island of Newfoundland that could affect crops on the mainland they are trying to prevent the spreading……so any plants with soil are banned. Tires and undersides of vehicles are also high pressure washed just before you board the ferry.

Last summer a couple from Vermont ahead of us in the ferry line-up couldn’t understand why they had to go through “customs” within Canada and why they would want to wash their car!

And to keep this on a rail topic. The Newfoundland ferries are a former CN operation that once carried railcars.

http://www.marine-atlantic.ca/en/index.asp
 
I doubt that Canada is a tangerine producing nation to begin with. I think it's very likely what you were trying to do was return produce of (perhaps California) to our country.
 
It's not quite pointless. If you're stopping people anyway at the border anyway, why not do an agricultural inspection? Even if you only slow the spread of pests, or reduce their rate of introduction, that is some accomplishment, since they travel much more slowly on their own.
It is fairly pointless. How many fruit fly laden fruits of mass destruction can one rail passenger carry across the border and how many insects flew across the border that day? Or does the wind only blow northwards and the Swat teams pick off the stragglers?
Absolutely not pointless. A Mediterranean fruit fly infestation in California could devastate an entire crop. A pest coming across the border cannot get very far, but a pest carried across the border can end up anywhere, including prime agricultural areas. Most of the pests being targeted don't just fly around day to day, but they establish homes in the fruit. They lay eggs there and the larvae live and feed in the fruit for about a week. One infested apple could host a whole bunch of Medfly larvae. If that apple ended up in Fresno, the result could be very bad. The issue is not whether Canada is a haven for pests, but whether you enforce inspections and prohibitions consistently regardless of the originating country. If border controls help prevent an infestation even just a little, then it is worth it.
 
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California does not have the interstate inspections anymore. Last time I drove back from Reno on I-80 the booths for the inspection were gone.
They were certainly there (and operating) when I drove that route 12 days ago.
In Southern Nevada/California the interstate inspection stations are still there (well, my last accurate intelligence is six months old, but I would have heard from my friends in Las Vegas if these had disappeared). However, I don't think it's on every road, and there may be inconsistent operation on the Interstates (sort of like with weigh stations, often closed but sometimes open). And they certainly never inspect for fruit on the Zephyr or Sunset or Chief, nor airplanes flying into LAX, SFO, SJC, etc. To get from Las Vegas northwest to a few of the very sparsely populated counties on the western side of Nevada, you actually have to drive through California on very small roads through the middle of nowhere--Nevada doesn't actually have the roads--and you almost always get inspected.

Fruit flies would have a hard time getting across the border in that location if it weren't for people--there's no food for them for miles around. But that's certainly not true of the entire California border, and so much of it isn't regularly inspected for "contraband food". It certainly seems silly to me, or possibly a good (and legal) excuse to actually search for drugs or immigrants or guns (much more questionable searches legally) without officially saying so--you can plausibly claim probable cause to search every vehicle for food, whereas you cannot claim probable cause to search every vehicle for the stuff they actually care about. That's the only explanation I can come up with, given how un-thorough (some locations, and not others) these inspections are. I mean, yes, an insect blight is a serious thing, but if they were truly serious about it they would be doing a lot more to prevent it rather than this minimal theater.

Another domestic inspection point is the ends of Hoover Dam. But there they are extremely clear that they're actually searching for bombs.
 
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It's not quite pointless. If you're stopping people anyway at the border anyway, why not do an agricultural inspection? Even if you only slow the spread of pests, or reduce their rate of introduction, that is some accomplishment, since they travel much more slowly on their own.
It is fairly pointless. How many fruit fly laden fruits of mass destruction can one rail passenger carry across the border and how many insects flew across the border that day? Or does the wind only blow northwards and the Swat teams pick off the stragglers?
Absolutely not pointless. A Mediterranean fruit fly infestation in California could devastate an entire crop. A pest coming across the border cannot get very far, but a pest carried across the border can end up anywhere, including prime agricultural areas. Most of the pests being targeted don't just fly around day to day, but they establish homes in the fruit. They lay eggs there and the larvae live and feed in the fruit for about a week. One infested apple could host a whole bunch of Medfly larvae. If that apple ended up in Fresno, the result could be very bad. The issue is not whether Canada is a haven for pests, but whether you enforce inspections and prohibitions consistently regardless of the originating country. If border controls help prevent an infestation even just a little, then it is worth it.
Yes, all valid points, but how do you stop the pests flying over the totally nominal line in the ground that denotes a border and infecting fruit over the other side of that border, and then spreading from there? You can't. Like Pig flu,you cant stop this sort of thing. Pulling up Tangerine Terrorists at stations (and since when was Canada a big citrus fruit producer? As someone else says it probably came from California anyway!) is as pointless asking me if I was a member of the **** party between 1938 and 1945 or am I a bad and nasty person coming to do bad and nasty things..... Security Theatre.
 
Via the Czech Republic? You really must like making detours!
Nope. The route Vienna-Prague-Berlin is far shorter than Vienna-Passau-Berlin.

As there have been major construction works in Praha they simply combined a Praha-Berlin-Arhus and a Praha-Vienna train into one.

A Mediterranean fruit fly infestation in California could devastate an entire crop
As I m' a personal enemy to fruit flies since high school days (as they have been used in biology). I would certainly like to agree, but if the swine flu can spread all over the planet in just a few days, how on earth do you expect that a fruit fly can't cross a border within a few years.

If something (no matter whether it is an animal or a disease) has the chance of getting into your country, it will most certainly do so, it's just a question of time.
 
Yes, all valid points, but how do you stop the pests flying over the totally nominal line in the ground that denotes a border and infecting fruit over the other side of that border, and then spreading from there? You can't.
Like I said earlier, the natural borders around California are not exactly conducive to fruit flies flying into the state. Between the Sierra Nevada mountains, southwestern deserts, northern mountains and forests (and deserts in eastern Oregon), there's not really a place where fruit flies would be able to enter the state without dying from lack of food.

I don't know how far a fruit fly can fly without eating some fruit, but given that most insects only live a matter of days, I'd guess it's not more than a couple hundred miles (if even that!), and the Central Valley is well protected by more than that from the nearest other major fruit growing areas.
 
But they can hitch rides on produce that isn't inspected one-by-one. Think about crates of produce coming in from who knows where! Does customs inspect every single piece of produce? If they open up the container to inspect and the flies fly out, then how is it any different? That's also one of the main sticking points with the tsa: they continue to harass passengers for nonexistent threats while still allowing unscreened monkeys to climb all over aircraft and do stuff in the "sterile" area and not scrutinize cargo the way they do passengers.
 
California does not have the interstate inspections anymore. Last time I drove back from Reno on I-80 the booths for the inspection were gone.
They were certainly there (and operating) when I drove that route 12 days ago.
In Southern Nevada/California the interstate inspection stations are still there (well, my last accurate intelligence is six months old, but I would have heard from my friends in Las Vegas if these had disappeared). However, I don't think it's on every road, and there may be inconsistent operation on the Interstates (sort of like with weigh stations, often closed but sometimes open). And they certainly never inspect for fruit on the Zephyr or Sunset or Chief, nor airplanes flying into LAX, SFO, SJC, etc. To get from Las Vegas northwest to a few of the very sparsely populated counties on the western side of Nevada, you actually have to drive through California on very small roads through the middle of nowhere--Nevada doesn't actually have the roads--and you almost always get inspected.

Fruit flies would have a hard time getting across the border in that location if it weren't for people--there's no food for them for miles around. But that's certainly not true of the entire California border, and so much of it isn't regularly inspected for "contraband food". It certainly seems silly to me, or possibly a good (and legal) excuse to actually search for drugs or immigrants or guns (much more questionable searches legally) without officially saying so--you can plausibly claim probable cause to search every vehicle for food, whereas you cannot claim probable cause to search every vehicle for the stuff they actually care about. That's the only explanation I can come up with, given how un-thorough (some locations, and not others) these inspections are. I mean, yes, an insect blight is a serious thing, but if they were truly serious about it they would be doing a lot more to prevent it rather than this minimal theater.

Another domestic inspection point is the ends of Hoover Dam. But there they are extremely clear that they're actually searching for bombs.
I can recall being questioned at a California inspection point behind which was a hill entirely covered in cheatgrass, or some other flammable invasive grass species. It struck me that they were closing the barn door a bit late, but I figured mentioning this would do me no good. That's one reason I have doubts about California having special stops.

On the Canadian border, I just expect the fruits and vegetables question as normal, along with the other questions about guns, liquor, and final destinations. Sort of like how the Soviet Union always asked directly if the traveler possessed any "slaughtered fowl."
 
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I doubt that Canada is a tangerine producing nation to begin with. I think it's very likely what you were trying to do was return produce of (perhaps California) to our country.
I thought of that for sure, but it seems just as likely that they are from some Asian country. I see a lot more produce from China in Vancouver than I do down here in Washington.
 
When arriving in Australia by airplane, the flight attendants are forced to collect ALL food items one may have and then they spray the entire airplane with some type of disinfectant before landing. On my last trip, there was a air blower that all passengers must pass through before collecting their luggages!! Then there is entry into the US - practically nothing!!
Oh please spare me, a full set of finger prints and a photograph at the end of a 14 hour journey - give me the aerosol (now fed into the cabin air automatically 2 hours off the coast since the 747 was introduced in 1970) anyday :angry: .

At least our Customs and Immigration staff know how to smile!

And I think you seem to have confused an air-conditioning curtain with some form of spooky quarantine procedure :blink: .

Australia is an island continent and rabbits and cane toads are only two of the imported vermin (and I wouldn't want to even suggest on this forum from whence the cane toads were imported) that we have stupidly allowed into the country :ph34r: .
 
Sounds like it's time for someone to bring a mongoose to Guam, to rid them of the snakes. Can you hide a mongoose in a tangerine?
Yeah, but then you will have a problem with too many mongooses. Or should that be mongeese? :lol: So then they will have to introduce something to get rid of them, then something to get rid of those, etc.
It's mongooses. It's octopus & octopi. Not mongi! :lol:

When you guys started going on about the mongooses to get rid of the snakes, all I could think of was that kids' song "There was an old lady who swallowed a fly".
Funny, when it was mentioned I thought of rikki tikki tavi. An old old cartoon, early 60s, I think.
Rudyard Kipling - The Just So Stories. A bit early for cartoons, I think.
 
Sounds like it's time for someone to bring a mongoose to Guam, to rid them of the snakes. Can you hide a mongoose in a tangerine?
Yeah, but then you will have a problem with too many mongooses. Or should that be mongeese? :lol: So then they will have to introduce something to get rid of them, then something to get rid of those, etc.
It's mongooses. It's octopus & octopi. Not mongi! :lol:

When you guys started going on about the mongooses to get rid of the snakes, all I could think of was that kids' song "There was an old lady who swallowed a fly".
Funny, when it was mentioned I thought of rikki tikki tavi. An old old cartoon, early 60s, I think.
Rudyard Kipling - The Just So Stories. A bit early for cartoons, I think.
Yes, it was written by Rudyard Kipling- along with Gunga Din & Jungle Book, & Captains Courageous. All of these have been commited to film at some time. The animated Rikki Tikki Tavi was produced in 1975- my bad I thought I saw it when I was a kid. Must have seen it with my oldest when she was little. In fact my mom & I were just talking about this cartoon last week.
 
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