Pennsylvanian (the train(s) and route) discussion

Advertise with us
Shop deals on ebay
shop deals on amazon
Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
The article says "The company determined that a second passenger train could be supported with the construction of new mainline track, passing sidings, switches and other infrastructure. It doesn't say how much or where. But I think depending on what is being done, the price tag is not outrageous.


"
 
Had David Gunn not foolishly gotten rid of the Three Rivers 18 years ago, this $200 million would not have been expended, which is basically a capital subsidy to the Hedge Fund called NS to support their PSR nonsense that is clogging up the railroad.

The lack of a decent connection nor thru cars between a NY-PGH train and the Capitol Ltd has put the Capitol Ltd on its death bed. Of all the PIP's this one was operating budget nuetral.

Anderson/Gardner removed that PIP from the website, and Congress let that PRIIA section slide into oblivion. NARPdbaRPA never once brought that issue up, only incessant nagging of a daily Cardinal, which got no traction.

Now Amtrak is procuring Airo trainsets that are not compatible with the existing LD fleet nor its proposed replacement with train sets. I do not expect the Capitol Ltd to live long enough to see either.
 
Last edited:
Alexandria Nick said:
That's the rub: the commuting patterns in the Pittsburgh region don't really fit the existing tracks. Employment is broadly distributed, with downtown only accounting for a small portion of the workforce. Aside from the 28 corridor up the Allegheny, the main commuter trunks don't match up with existing tracks for the portion of the region that actually goes downtown for work. There's no duplicate for the traffic down 279.
Click to expand...
Sad but true. Especially because Oakland, a huge employment center with its cluster of hospitals and universities and tech, is served by bus not rail. Bus service is good but could be much better. The fast, limited-stop East Busway barely brushes the edge of Oakland (though it's terrific for "dahntahn" and Shadyside and East Liberty and Wilkinsburg), and the regular buses seemingly stop every few feet and take forever. I don't know the status of the bus rapid transit (BRT) lanes that are perennially proposed but seemingly never built between Oakland and downtown. Oh, what a mistake Pittsburgh and many other cities made in ripping up streetcar lines.

"[A]t Forbes Field, already the National League's oldest ballpark in 1960, there were no such things s luxury or loge boxes - just boxes, reserved, general admission, and bleachers. Nor were there ads on the field's ivy-covered red-brick walls, exploding scoreboards, or any major street signs telling you how to get there. No need - people knew where Forbes Field was and generally arrived by streetcar, bus, or on foot, since parking was limited." (Jim Reisler, The Best Game Ever: Pirates vs. Yankees, October 13, 1960)

1695657622202.png
 
https://triblive.com/local/regional...assenger-rail-service-between-pittsburgh-nyc/
Looks like it’s now official; there will be two Pennsylvanian departures each direction. Per the article departures from PGH would be at 7AM and 12:30 PM. Arrivals in PGH would be at 3PM and 10 PM. Assuming similar timetables to the current one, that would imply NYP departures at 6AM and 1PM and NYP arrivals at 4PM and 9:30PM.

Not sure what the timeframe is for the new service to start. The article did not mention any planned start dates.
 
It's not quite what we had prior to 1985. Nobody headed west of Harrisburg is going to catch a train out of NY at 6am. They used to leave at around 730am and 130pm. This will handle weekday commuter business to Philly, turnover ridership to commuters to Harrisburg, and take passengers from Phily headed to west of Harrisburg. If the Capitol Ltd survives to see this, the Pittsburgh connection at 7am will often not be made.
 
Fair enough, but I think the connection situation will still be an improvement over the status quo in this scenario: PGH transfers to PHL, NYP, TRE, and NWK should still be accommodated via the next available NER at WAS. PGH transfers to East of HAR will save considerable time waiting for the next train. PGH transfers West of HAR will be able to get home the same day on a train, which is currently impossible. It currently doesn’t seem to be much of a problem. There are 4 occasions in the last 90 days where the Cap would have missed the new Pennsylvanian, but not the old. One of those was by 4 minutes and likely would have caused a hold. I think it’s a good trade off.
 
Stremba said:
https://triblive.com/local/regional...assenger-rail-service-between-pittsburgh-nyc/
Looks like it’s now official; there will be two Pennsylvanian departures each direction. Per the article departures from PGH would be at 7AM and 12:30 PM. Arrivals in PGH would be at 3PM and 10 PM. Assuming similar timetables to the current one, that would imply NYP departures at 6AM and 1PM and NYP arrivals at 4PM and 9:30PM.

Not sure what the timeframe is for the new service to start. The article did not mention any planned start dates.
Click to expand...
Year 2026 for "completion." Mass Transit Magazine
 
Largely interlockings, addition of multiple mainline trackage (which was probably removed in the last 30 years) and that sort of thing. I think some platform work. The state loves throwing money at NS. This isn’t a total ripoff for the work being done (necessary or not). We’re getting a new train for our trouble this time. Yes they should have pushed for a third trip, but this is not the worst boondoggle going on right now. Chances are NS was gonna get the dough anyway. I’m glad we’re gonna get a train for it.
 
west point said:
What are the improvements? Any additional platforms?
Click to expand...
High Level Platform on two of the terminating tracks at Pittsburgh for the single level Pennsylvanians to berth in. Funding is partly from this package and partly from Amtrak's general ADA budget.

The thought track used b yh the Cap will remain low level, but the platform will be upgraded and rebuilt.
 
jis said:
High Level Platform on two of the terminating tracks at Pittsburgh for the single level Pennsylvanians to berth in. Funding is partly from this package and partly from Amtrak's general ADA budget.

The thought track used b yh the Cap will remain low level, but the platform will be upgraded and rebuilt.
Click to expand...
Do all these improvements have to be completed or can they be ongoing after 2nd train is in operation much like 2nd MSP <> CHI?
 
railiner said:
It's about time. When you consider that that was once part of the busiest railroads of the world, it is incredible that service has been reduced to just a single daily trip. I do wonder why they need to make $200M in "improvements" to add just one little train to a multi-track mainline? 🤔
Click to expand...
Basically, the NS held this service hostage with the Commonwealth so it could get the free money to upgrade their own services. I am for necessary upgrades and look forward to the additional service (2+ years from now) but for this investment these trains had better be on time 98% of the time. But, actually, currently the Pennsylvanian is a fairly good on time performer. For eample the last 30 days 43 has been on-time or early into Pittsburgh half of the time, but more than 15 minutes late only 3 times. Into Harrisburg, 42 has been on-time or early 16 times and late by more than 15 minutes again only 3 times. For Amtrak on a heavily used freight route, that ain't too bad.
 
At one time there was talk of additional track work in the Pittsburgh station to facilitate combining some of the cars from New York (via Pennsylvanian service) with Capitol Ltd. That would provide a lot better one seat ride for Pennsylvanian stations to those served by the CL west of Pittsburgh. Is that still being considered? It was also be a faster way to Chicago from NY/PHL than the Cardinal.
 
Palmland said:
At one time there was talk of additional track work in the Pittsburgh station to facilitate combining some of the cars from New York (via Pennsylvanian service) with Capitol Ltd. That would provide a lot better one seat ride for Pennsylvanian stations to those served by the CL west of Pittsburgh. Is that still being considered? It was also be a faster way to Chicago from NY/PHL than the Cardinal.
Click to expand...
I don't believe this will ever happen, certainly not before new long distance equipment is in service.
 
railiner said:
It's about time. When you consider that that was once part of the busiest railroads of the world, it is incredible that service has been reduced to just a single daily trip. I do wonder why they need to make $200M in "improvements" to add just one little train to a multi-track mainline? 🤔
Click to expand...
Numbers like that may be typical for states to trade to freight railroads for new or improved passenger service. Virginia is the example I know, and there were about three of them, before the later agreement to buy tracks. The outcome was good, in my opinion, but rankled me a bit.

If you look at the state rail plans anywhere, and the grants in them, or found by using them as a guide, you see states proudly give out a lot of grants for freight improvements, without passenger service. Sometimes related to ports. Seems to me the grants often have some federal backing, and federal grants directly to the companies are less common?? Somebody here would know.
 
JamesWhitcombRiley said:
Numbers like that may be typical for states to trade to freight railroads for new or improved passenger service. Virginia is the example I know, and there were about three of them, before the later agreement to buy tracks. The outcome was good, in my opinion, but rankled me a bit.

If you look at the state rail plans anywhere, and the grants in them, or found by using them as a guide, you see states proudly give out a lot of grants for freight improvements, without passenger service. Sometimes related to ports. Seems to me the grants often have some federal backing, and federal grants directly to the companies are less common?? Somebody here would know.
Click to expand...
Pennsylvania had an interest in improving freight service going back to the bankruptcies of the 1970's. When Oregon DOT began doing rail planning, we picked up on that and looked for projects that would benefit both freight and passenger service. My successor as ODOT rail planner came from Pennsylvania, and he took on freight issues that needed attention.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top