Pacific Parlour Car Rules

[Peter KG6LSE]

Are we beating another Dead Horse here? Maybe we should look at it from this perspective - PPC being a Private car ( sleepers), can control hours of operations as well as hold special (Private) parties ( Wine & Cheese). During these private operations, Amtrak has authority/ privilege to invite who they wish ( Sleeper Pax over the age of 21)!?!?!???

Then stick it on the END of the train where NO one would need to walk trough it ... Problem solved and every one is happy .

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Are we beating another Dead Horse here? Maybe we should look at it from this perspective - PPC being a Private car ( sleepers), can control hours of operations as well as hold special (Private) parties ( Wine & Cheese). During these private operations, Amtrak has authority/ privilege to invite who they wish ( Sleeper Pax over the age of 21)!?!?!???

Then stick it on the END of the train where NO one would need to walk trough it ... Problem solved and every one is happy .

While that is a good idea, it wouldn't work since the PPC staff needs quick access to the Diner to bring in the PPC meals.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Then stick it on the END of the train where NO one would need to walk trough it ... Problem solved and every one is happy.

While that is a good idea, it wouldn't work since the PPC staff needs quick access to the Diner to bring in the PPC meals.

I thought I read that the PPC entrees are heated all at once and then brought over in a single movement and simply kept in a warmer of some sort? If true and if I'm understanding this correctly it sounds like it wouldn't be too much of a change to the process. Or maybe the diner could be moved to the end as well. ^_^

 

[amamba]

Many states require that the point-of-sale for the alcohol have at least 60% of their sales come from food or other non-alcoholic consumables in order to avoid being classified as a bar. The wine and cheese tasting is almost a purely alcoholic sales event, and therefore is treated as a bar environment, hence the reason under-21s are not allowed.

Since they're not selling the wine, but instead giving it away, it's pretty easy for Amtrak to meet that 60% threshold. And seeing as how they encourage under 21's to go the the theatre located in the same car that rule cannot be in place here. Heck, even during the wine tasting they have to permit kids to walk through the car. I suspect that this is more just a rule to try to make life easier on the attendants and avoid any potential issues.

Now I can't say that this holds true during the entire year, but many times during the summer the event on the first afternoon out of LA is often sold out or close to it. So they tend to chase anyone, not just under 21's, out of the car if you're not partaking of the event. And in the case of someone clearly over 21 not drinking, if that person was taking up a space that someone who would be drinking needed, that would probably be wrong. But in the OP's case, that was clearly not the case. So there was no good reason to throw the non-drinker out.

Amtrak does charge you to participate in the wine and cheese tasking. Even if it was free, California probably still classifies it as a bar environment. If you set up a bar that is giving out free drinks, you still cannot, under law, allow folks under 21 in the bar. The lower level of the car is not considered part of the area where the alcohol is being served. It is just like restaurants that have an open floor plan with a bar at one end. There is no wall separating the dining area from the bar, but under 21s are not allowed to sit in the bar area. The theatre is removed enough from the upper area that it does not have to be cleared of under 21s. It is often up to the licensee to determine what constitutes the bar area, and enforce that strictly. Some things, such as sitting right at the bar are obviously part of the bar.

I don’t know the reasoning at all behind not allowing someone to stay who is not drinking. That must be the attendant’s goofy rule.

I won't rehash the charge vs free since we've already covered that aspect.

As for bar at one end, that's exactly what Amtrak has. Therefore the same logic is invoked and under 21's don't need to leave the upper area. There are clearly 3 separate and distinct seating areas within the PPC car on the upper level. You have full tables, you have mini tables to hold drinks, and then you have just straight seating. So if we're going to apply the rule that under 21's must not sit at the bar, since the wine tasting generally only uses the first 2 sections, there remains no good reason or law to throw under 21's out of the distinct seating area. They aren't sitting at the bar and they are separated from the actual drinking.

Wine tasting took over the entire upper level of the PPC on my last trip - all three sections including swivel chairs, middle section, and booths. However, children were allowed to stay and were given cheese and sparkling cider. In fact, another pax was reading the route guide and specifically asked the PPC attendant if her two children, I would guess ages 10 and 12, had to leave, and the attendant said it was fine for them to stay.

I should add, I don't really care either way, I am just pointing it out that it does seem to be the official rule that under 21s are not allowed in the upper level of the PPC during the wine tasting. I am just again mentioning that I don't think this particular attendant was making that rule up as I read it in the route guide. Maybe someone should ask amtrak why this particular rule is in place so we know for sure.

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

Are we beating another Dead Horse here? Maybe we should look at it from this perspective - PPC being a Private car ( sleepers), can control hours of operations as well as hold special (Private) parties ( Wine & Cheese). During these private operations, Amtrak has authority/ privilege to invite who they wish ( Sleeper Pax over the age of 21)!?!?!???

Then stick it on the END of the train where NO one would need to walk trough it ... Problem solved and every one is happy .

While that is a good idea, it wouldn't work since the PPC staff needs quick access to the Diner to bring in the PPC meals.

I was not aware of this . Ok then I guess its not such a good idea .

Peter

 

[leemell]

Are we beating another Dead Horse here? Maybe we should look at it from this perspective - PPC being a Private car ( sleepers), can control hours of operations as well as hold special (Private) parties ( Wine & Cheese). During these private operations, Amtrak has authority/ privilege to invite who they wish ( Sleeper Pax over the age of 21)!?!?!???

Then stick it on the END of the train where NO one would need to walk trough it ... Problem solved and every one is happy .

Another problem with that is that the sleepers are at the front of the train between the transition car and the PPC, so everyone in the sleepers would have to walk through the diner and three to four coaches to get to the PPC. Amtrak did put the sleepers at the rear of the train for a few weeks last year, but soon put them back in the front. Almost everyone OBS and passengers hated that arrangement.

 

[ATXEagle]

I'm taking the CS north from LA to SEA in 3 weeks. Do they offer the wine/cheese event both days? I'm really looking forward to the PPC. I'll be bringing along a friend for his first train ride, so I hope we have friendly service on board.

 

[Trainmans daughter]

I'm taking the CS north from LA to SEA in 3 weeks. Do they offer the wine/cheese event both days? I'm really looking forward to the PPC. I'll be bringing along a friend for his first train ride, so I hope we have friendly service on board.

Generallly, the wine/cheese event is around 3 pm each day. Your chance of getting great service is hugely in your favor. If you are lucky, you'll be blessed with Debbie, the red-headed bombshell. Or the famous Alan, who gets rave reviews.

Have a great trip. I'm jealous!

 

[ATXEagle]

I'll hope for one of those two! I've usually lucked out with good service most of the time.

 

[GG-1]

I'm taking the CS north from LA to SEA in 3 weeks. Do they offer the wine/cheese event both days? I'm really looking forward to the PPC. I'll be bringing along a friend for his first train ride, so I hope we have friendly service on board.

Generallly, the wine/cheese event is around 3 pm each day. Your chance of getting great service is hugely in your favor. If you are lucky, you'll be blessed with Debbie, the red-headed bombshell. Or the famous Alan, who gets rave reviews.

Have a great trip. I'm jealous!

Aloha

My recollection is the wine tasting is only the first day.

 

[AlanB]

I'm taking the CS north from LA to SEA in 3 weeks. Do they offer the wine/cheese event both days? I'm really looking forward to the PPC. I'll be bringing along a friend for his first train ride, so I hope we have friendly service on board.

Generallly, the wine/cheese event is around 3 pm each day. Your chance of getting great service is hugely in your favor. If you are lucky, you'll be blessed with Debbie, the red-headed bombshell. Or the famous Alan, who gets rave reviews.

Have a great trip. I'm jealous!

Aloha

My recollection is the wine tasting is only the first day.

Nope, supposed to happen both afternoons on the CS. On the EB it only happens one afternoon.

 

[Cristobal]

I'm taking the CS north from LA to SEA in 3 weeks. Do they offer the wine/cheese event both days? I'm really looking forward to the PPC. I'll be bringing along a friend for his first train ride, so I hope we have friendly service on board.

Generallly, the wine/cheese event is around 3 pm each day. Your chance of getting great service is hugely in your favor. If you are lucky, you'll be blessed with Debbie, the red-headed bombshell. Or the famous Alan, who gets rave reviews.

Have a great trip. I'm jealous!

I've been fortunate enough to have Debbie as PPC attendant twice on trips from LAX to SJC. She is quite a pistol. Carmella is another very good one (had her twice between SJC and TAC, PDX). Michelle also comes to mind as very friendly. Along with a few others that didn't leave as big an impression but were all friendly and courteous nonetheless.

It should also be pointed out that the cheese and the wines for tasting are different both days. The first day on the n/b CS (14) are California wines and cheeses and on the second day they are from the PNW. The reverse is true for the s/b CS (11).

 

[ReidTYK]

I will be taking the LSL with my friend and dad out of Chicago, and we will be in sleeper. It is my understanding that sleeper pax get wine and cheese in the diner 30 minutes before the train leaves. Do the same rules regarding minors apply here? If they do, will my friend and I still be able to board early, or will we have to board with coach pax?

 

[printman2000]

I will be taking the LSL with my friend and dad out of Chicago, and we will be in sleeper. It is my understanding that sleeper pax get wine and cheese in the diner 30 minutes before the train leaves. Do the same rules regarding minors apply here? If they do, will my friend and I still be able to board early, or will we have to board with coach pax?

Kids are not a problem. They have little trays of cheese for each person and also offered a sparkling cider. I think they even offered our kids other juice if they wanted it.

If if you do not go to the reception, you can board with the rest of the sleeper passengers.

This, of course, if my experience from a couple of years ago. I assume nothing has changed other than it is a dining car now instead of a diner-lite.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I will be taking the LSL with my friend and dad out of Chicago, and we will be in sleeper. It is my understanding that sleeper pax get wine and cheese in the diner 30 minutes before the train leaves. Do the same rules regarding minors apply here? If they do, will my friend and I still be able to board early, or will we have to board with coach pax?

They board the Sleeping Car passengers early from the Metro Lounge. You and your friend can board your sleeper and go to your room with dad but chances are you will not be able to attend the wine and cheese party, the diner is small on this train and lately Amtrak has been denying minors access to cars when alcohol is being served except for diners during meals and cafe cars! (I dont get the difference myself but this is a country of goofy alcohol rules! :wacko: )You can either stand on the platform outside your car or stay in your room,perhaps the cafe car attendant will let you stay in there,it's not open but the guy might be a good guy, some are???

You didnt mention whether you were on the NYP or BOS section of the Lake Shore, the Boston Section is way in the front of the Train, the NY Section is on the rear with the Diner. Hope that helps!

 

[AlanB]

I will be taking the LSL with my friend and dad out of Chicago, and we will be in sleeper. It is my understanding that sleeper pax get wine and cheese in the diner 30 minutes before the train leaves. Do the same rules regarding minors apply here? If they do, will my friend and I still be able to board early, or will we have to board with coach pax?

Kids are not a problem. They have little trays of cheese for each person and also offered a sparkling cider. I think they even offered our kids other juice if they wanted it.

If if you do not go to the reception, you can board with the rest of the sleeper passengers.

This, of course, if my experience from a couple of years ago. I assume nothing has changed other than it is a dining car now instead of a diner-lite.

Nothing has changed, I just attended the party this past Saturday. We had no minors in the car, but that was by choice not by some rule. In fact the one SA Alex, mentioned recently in the Best SCA thread, specifically told one father that both his wife & 10 year old daughter were welcome and that they did have offerings other than wine for them. They hadn't come down because they thought there was only wine to drink. Hubby called the wife, but since they were in the Boston sleeper at the far end of the train from the diner, they decided not to bother.

So instead Alex wrapped up to plates with the cheese, grapes, & crackers and provided 2 bottles of sparkling cider for the Dad to carry back to them when he left.

But bottom line is that minors are most definitely welcome at the tasting and there are non-alcoholic choices for both minors and even adults who would prefer not to imbibe.

 

[dan72]

His name was William. Aside from the examples I gave of his tyranical adherance to rules - either real or his own - he was a pleasant enough guy. But when it came to the things I mentioned, I felt he was out of line!

Sorry I'm a bit late in joining this thread.

We had William on 6/27 when we rode the CS from PDX to SAC (hoping to post my report in the next week or two). I know when he announced the wine and cheese tasting he asked folks who were not planning participating to make room for others as he was expecting a full car (which was true it did fill up). I don't recall him asking for ID's although if he did, it didn't strike me as an issue. The same with our meal reservation (then again I keep ours in my wallet as some ask for it and others don't, but just in case).

I do remember him getting on the PA and reminding parents not to let their children go through the cars unattended. Totally appropriate move.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing your experience in any. It surprises as he didn't strike me as that kind of person. It does make you wonder if he had a recent performance review or reprimand that put him on edge. Some folks can be Jekyll and Hyde that way if they are having a bad day for some reason. It's not an excuse, but does make one wonder...

Anyway, sorry to hear about. The PPC is really a great addition for that train!

Dan

 

[Rail Freak]

But bottom line is that minors are most definitely welcome at the tasting and there are non-alcoholic choices for both minors and even adults who would prefer not to imbibe.

I was on the #14 last month & the PPC Attendant announced on the IC that minors were not allowed!!! ( There was a lady with an 11 year old son who stayed in the roomette while the Mom attented the Tasting.) Maybe it was because it was a very crowed train!?!?

 

[AlanB]

But bottom line is that minors are most definitely welcome at the tasting and there are non-alcoholic choices for both minors and even adults who would prefer not to imbibe.

I was on the #14 last month & the PPC Attendant announced on the IC that minors were not allowed!!! ( There was a lady with an 11 year old son who stayed in the roomette while the Mom attented the Tasting.) Maybe it was because it was a very crowed train!?!?

My post was in response to someone riding the Lake Shore Limited; not the Coast Starlight.

 

[George B]

But bottom line is that minors are most definitely welcome at the tasting and there are non-alcoholic choices for both minors and even adults who would prefer not to imbibe.

I was on the #14 last month & the PPC Attendant announced on the IC that minors were not allowed!!! ( There was a lady with an 11 year old son who stayed in the roomette while the Mom attented the Tasting.) Maybe it was because it was a very crowed train!?!?

The Coast Starlight is following liquor laws for the State of California, Oregon, and Washington. More specifically, California and Oregon have some strange and strict laws that no other states have on the books. Other trains in other states are a different story.

 

[Rail Freak]

But bottom line is that minors are most definitely welcome at the tasting and there are non-alcoholic choices for both minors and even adults who would prefer not to imbibe.

I was on the #14 last month & the PPC Attendant announced on the IC that minors were not allowed!!! ( There was a lady with an 11 year old son who stayed in the roomette while the Mom attented the Tasting.) Maybe it was because it was a very crowed train!?!?

My post was in response to someone riding the Lake Shore Limited; not the Coast Starlight.

OOOPS, Sorry!!!!!

 

[trainman74]

More specifically, California and Oregon have some strange and strict laws that no other states have on the books.

You can say that of every state's liquor laws -- seems like every state is slightly different and has (or had until recently) at least one strange and strict law.

 

[amamba]

It's only been in the last 10 years that we are allowed to purchase alcohol on Sundays in Massachusetts! Silly puritans. :help: Good thing that got changed.

 

[Bob Dylan]

It's only been in the last 10 years that we are allowed to purchase alcohol on Sundays in Massachusetts! Silly puritans. :help: Good thing that got changed.

In Texas Liqour stores have to be Closed on Sundays and by 9PM during the week!Wine and Alcohol can be served/sold but not before Noon on Sundays or after Midnight,1AM, or2AM depending on the County/City!! Of the 254 Counties in Texas, 70+ are still "Dry" which means Boot Legging is a lucrative business! :lol: Along the Mexican Border (where the Drinking Age is "officially" 16 but in effect Do you have the Money is ther real determining factor) Teens can drink to their hearts content! (well, it's sort of dangerous now, not like it was! ) Louisiana has a lower drinking age (not sure, maybe 18???) so underage can cross the borders to party there too! Oklahoma used to be Totally "Dry", they have some really strange laws also! (Dont know for sure all of the rules,, Texans only go to Oklahoma to Gamble/Drink and Chase Ugly women! :lol: )

 

[Trainmans daughter]

It's only been in the last 10 years that we are allowed to purchase alcohol on Sundays in Massachusetts! Silly puritans. :help: Good thing that got changed.

In Texas Liqour stores have to be Closed on Sundays and by 9PM during the week!Wine and Alcohol can be served/sold but not before Noon on Sundays or after Midnight,1AM, or2AM depending on the County/City!! Of the 254 Counties in Texas, 70+ are still "Dry" which means Boot Legging is a lucrative business! :lol: Along the Mexican Border (where the Drinking Age is "officially" 16 but in effect Do you have the Money is ther real determining factor) Teens can drink to their hearts content! (well, it's sort of dangerous now, not like it was! ) Louisiana has a lower drinking age (not sure, maybe 18???) so underage can cross the borders to party there too! Oklahoma used to be Totally "Dry", they have some really strange laws also! (Dont know for sure all of the rules,, Texans only go to Oklahoma to Gamble/Drink and Chase Ugly women! :lol: )

So what you're saying, Jim, is that if you live in or visit Texas, you better plan ahead and stock up!

The differences in state alcohol law might explain my original post. My granddaughter was allowed to participate in the wine/cheese tasting last summer while rolling through Oregon (served sparkling cider, of course). She was denied this event last month while traveling through California. Well, that makes sense (not!).

But that still doesn't explain why the passenger, a totally grown-up person, was denied a plate of cheese because he wasn't a wine drinker! All the other passengers in the PPC got a huge kick out of that.