options for silver services

[Guest_mrdisnie]

I would like to get feedback on what everybody thinks of the following idea for the silver service routes!!!

I and my family have taken roundtrip silver service out of NWK to KIS on numerous occasions and am concerned by all the discussion on other boards about the cancellation of trains because of lack of cars, so i have an idea.

Why not discontinue silver service from New York to DC and vice versa and make all silver service leave from DC. That way Amtrak can use Superliner cars, which does not seem to have many mech issues. Since DC is still a major Hub reapirs can be made there and hopefully cut down lateness. Also, by starting and finishing silver service from DC Amtrak can follow the Auto Train, which on most days has a pretty good on time record. There are enough NEC trains to make connections out of and to DC, meal service can be kept to a minimum since it would only be a 16 hour trip. I have taken the auto train a couple of times and do like it but the negative aspect is that you have to drive to Lorton, which if you catch the traffic at the wrong time can make a trip from NYC last 6 to 7 hours. Also, unlike the auto train, on silver service trains you would not have to have a car with you so leaving out of NYC, and points south, you can catch any number of trains to DC and make your connection to silver sevice.

This is only a suggestion and would like to hear feed back, negative or postive.

Thanks

 

[capltd29]

Well, an issue with that, would obviously be the fact that Amtrak certainly does not have a surplus of superliner equipment. As far as following the Auto Train, it would not be a good Idea to have both Silver trains leaving at roughly the same time of day. Also, note that the Silver Star uses a different route than the Metor and the Auto Train.

 

[Midland Valley]

Still, the idea of DC as the terminus for East coast trains would have some advantage for Amtrak. With the regionals on the NEC, this would save time and expense for Amtrak and the need to change from desil to electric power on the trains and it might enhance the use of the Cardinal and the CL.

 

[AlanB]

While it's an interesting idea, as already noted, Amtrak does not have enough Superliner equipment available to pull this off. Additionally, passengers want a one seat ride. Such a change would decrease ridership dramatically on the Silver Service trains.

The fact that there is plenty of regionals is meaningless. First, as I already mentioned, passengers hate to change trains. Second, regionals provide no checked baggage, something that is very important to families heading for Disney World. The current Silver Service does provide checked baggage.

One needs to look no farther than the Cardinal to see the evidence supporting the fact that passengers hate to change trains. Ridership on the Cardinal increased considerably, when it changed from using Superliner equipment and terminating in DC, to using Viewliner/Amfleet equipment terminating in NY. This despite the loss of the dining car and a Sightseer Lounge car.

 

[Foodman53]

While I agree that the prospect of changing trains from a "regional" to "Silver Service" at WAS wouldn't be particularly appealing...I'm not convinced that it's truly a bad idea. From an equipment standpoint, how many trainsets were/are gained if the Sunset Limited does not return to Florida? Also, couldn't Auto Train give up some equipment in order to make this work?

Actually, if this idea was pursued, couldn't Amtrak easily enough attach a baggage car onto the "regional" at Sunnyside, then transload it at WAS in both directions, in order to maintain "checked baggage"(or, even let the baggage car run through) Granted, this would take some additional schedule time to do so, but how much padding is there in the Meteor/Star/Crescent schedules now, as they come into WAS from either direction?

Obviously, equipment availability is the key, but the Amfleet/Viewliner/Heritage Diner consists of these trains are quickly wearing out, with no "low level" replacements in sight. If Amtrak is truly interested in maintaining this long distance corridor("IF")....it may behoove them to push Beech Grove harder to repair Superliner equipment.

Just random thoughts

From the "Florida Funnel"

Foodman53

 

[AlanB]

From an equipment standpoint, how many trainsets were/are gained if the Sunset Limited does not return to Florida?  Also, couldn't Auto Train give up some equipment in order to make this work?

I'd guess that at most, they would free up one trainset, and I'm not even positive about that. However, you also need to consider that at present, the Sunset is not running with any regular sleepers, only a Trans/dorm that provides 6 roomettes. That's horribly inadequate for Silver Service. It's also only running with I believe two coaches, which during peak season would not be enough for Silver Service.

The AutoTrain cannot spare any equipment. In fact, it could probably use more, if only it were available.

Actually, if this idea was pursued, couldn't Amtrak easily enough attach a baggage car onto the "regional" at Sunnyside, then transload it at WAS in both directions, in order to maintain "checked baggage"(or, even let the baggage car run through) Granted, this would take some additional schedule time to do so, but how much padding is there in the Meteor/Star/Crescent schedules now, as they come into WAS from either direction?

Sure it could be done, but it's a lot of extra work for little to no gain. Furthermore, it still leaves you using old Heritage baggage cars. Both on the Regional and on the Superliner version of Silver Service. Finally, checked baggage would now mean that select Regional trains would need schedule changes, as it takes time to load baggage onto the train at each stop.

Now you run the risk of pissing off the business passenger who wonders why his train now takes longer than it used to, and longer than many of the other regionals.

Obviously, equipment availability is the key, but the Amfleet/Viewliner/Heritage Diner consists of these trains are quickly wearing out, with no "low level" replacements in sight.   If Amtrak is truly interested in maintaining this long distance corridor("IF")....it may behoove them to push Beech Grove harder to repair Superliner equipment.

Only the Heritage diner is really the Achilles heal here. The Amfleets and Viewliners are actually newer than Superliners I's. And the Viewliners are newer than all the Superliners.

And wearing out is a relative term. Were Amtrak getting proper funding, and management not cutting corners, these cars would be getting their proper and needed maintenance and overhauls.

 

[Midland Valley]

Many of us have to change trains once or twice just to get to places like Philly or Atlanta or Orlando anyway. Many of us have to change planes at least once to get anywhere. If GWB is successful in his attempt to destroy Amtrak, everyone will be changing planes at somepoint going from regional airport to hub to major. Perhaps they could designate a particular regional as a connecting train; which I think they do but not to any extent this would entail.

 

[battalion51]

There was talk a number of years ago (roughly 10) of doing exactly what's been suggested. The costs would drop dramatically since Silver Service is technically overlapping service. They decided that there wasn't enough equipment to spare, and the loss of ridership wouldn't be enough to justify the switch. At the time though trains like the Vermonter still had checked baggage so the issue of no checked baggage wasn't exsistent. This idea was also floated when we had the Super Train a few years back, the initial plan was to maintain both trains, but turn the Meteor at WAS with a connecting Metroliner with a bag car and cross platform transfer. But again the issues of the transfer came up, and they decided that it'd just be easier on all parties to run the Super Train.

This is just my humble opinion, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Super Train come back and let the Palmetto cover the Florence route.

 

[mrdisnie]

Many people have given valued feedback, both pros and cons. But i think it is something that Amtrak has to look into to keep the Silvers running!! As for people not wanting to change trains, correct me if I am wrong but at one time the Silver Service started in Boston and was then changed to originate in NYC. My opinion is, if people they want to take the silver service they will do what is neccessary. As for a baggage car, I must admit in all the times I have taken the silver I have not seen many people check baggage, most people, especialy in coach carry on everything. I can honestly say that my family and I do not check baggage for three reasons. 1) with the new weight requirement, 50lbs, we cannot check large suitcases, 2) ever since Amtrak lost our luggage two years ago I am a little weary about checking it. By the way Amtrak lost it on the train, we saw it get loaded in NWK onto our train but ended up on another train!!!! Still trying to figure that one out!! LOL 3) Although we stay in a sleeper, there is still plenty of room to bring a suitcase and store it in our room.

 

[Foodman53]

Bat51....as usual, has a great idea! (If Amtrak is still around whenever he graduates from FSU, I'm nominating him as Amtrak's president!!) The solution may be to run the "Super Train"....probably naming it the "Silver Meteor", since that name has the most longevity....running it on the "Silver Star's" route, and letting the "Palmetto" cover the old "A-line" stops.

When the "Palmetto" first began service in the mid-1970's, it was a SAV-NYP-SAV, operation....later extending to Jacksonville. It seems to me that Jacksonville-NYP routing could return, possibly operating on a 6:30am/11:59pm schedule in both directions. With those end points, you would probably maximize the fare box revenue.

Any idea is better than no trains!!

From the "Florida Funnel"

Foodman53

 

[Foodman53]

Jacksonville to New York/Penn Station is 977 miles, over CSX's old "A-line". A 6:30am/11:59pm schedule is possible if the average speed for the run is 56mph....certainly still do-able on CSX and the NEC!!

From the "Florida Funnel"

Foodman53

 

[battalion51]

Something else that needs to be explored heavily is taking a few Amfleets and converting them to baggage use for trains like the Carolinian and Palmetto so they can free up Heritage cars for other routes, and allow those trains to run at 125 with the all Amfleet consist.

 

[Viewliner]

Something else that needs to be explored heavily is taking a few Amfleets and converting them to baggage use for trains like the Carolinian and Palmetto so they can free up Heritage cars for other routes, and allow those trains to run at 125 with the all Amfleet consist.

Initially when I first read your post the idea seemed impractical converting passenger coaches into baggage cars. But, Amfleet I's seem to be abundant enough and with the Capstone cars stored it could work. It would make alot of sense offering the amenity without lowering the speed in the NEC or taking away from the appearance of the train itself.

As for the Silver Services I agree with the above statements regarding equipment constraints and ridership losses that make shortening the routes to WAS impractical.

I don't like the idea of combining the Silver Meteor and the Silver Star. I like the idea of multiple departures daily, especially with the old schedules. It's great having the option of leaving either in the morning or evening out of NYP and get to ORL the next morning or afternoon. Taking away from that you take away from the flexibility. Plus the Silver Star's route adds a few hours to the trip which can have an impact on ridership too. While only adding 2-3 hours to the trip to ORL, it can be a pain for families who want to just get to Disney already or get back home. Adding to the trains size will also add to the time needed for servicing the train at each stop, even potentially requiring a triple spot at some stops. The choice of departure and arrival times also applies to the Palmetto being the sole train running via Charleston.

If only we could run two Super-sized Silver Service trains in each direction daily, but we don't have the funding or equipment for that.

 

[battalion51]

What we're talking about here is a way to cut costs and still maintain some form of service. If I had a choice between running a Super Train or losing my Florida Service, I'll take a Super Train. The spotting issue can be resolved fairly easily by adding length to the platforms where needed, this wasn't done for the initial experiment because of the temporary status. In a perfect world we'd still have a Silver Palm with a more desireable schedule through the heart of Florida, and switch the Meteor to a Night schedule (ridership would be much better that way, since the Star still covers the Orlando route in daylight). But this isn't a perfect world, cuts will have to be made, and this one makes sense.

 

[Midland Valley]

Something else that needs to be explored heavily is taking a few Amfleets and converting them to baggage use for trains like the Carolinian and Palmetto so they can free up Heritage cars for other routes, and allow those trains to run at 125 with the all Amfleet consist.

Are there many of the heritage cars; 10/6, slumbers, coaches just sitting around anywhere or were those all disposed of?

 

[battalion51]

Most were disposed of. Even if they could cut more up, when the wheels die, the car dies. There aren't any left for these things.