Oh my goodness, trying to get a passport?

[chrsjrcj]

We never planned on ever traveling outside the United States and never had need for a passport. Shame on us for being naive about the whole process. When we first thought about the trip, we did not realize it was such a pain to get one.

Except for a couple of trips to Europe in the 1980's, I've never have been out of the US and needed a Passport. Yet I got one and renewed it ever since. (I grew up in upstate NYS and went to Canada quite often, but that was when the crossing was easy.)
When my sister and BIL flew to Asia in 2005, they needed their Passport numbers to reserve the flights.

Even though I don't plan to travel internationally, I still would rather have a Passport and/or a Passport Card and not need it than not have them and need them. (I have both.) You never know if say you find yourself in Niagara Falls, NY and want to go to Niagara Falls, ON or find yourself in Detroit and want to go to Windsor or find yourself in Seattle NTD want to spend the day in Vancouver, BC.

To the OP, if it's convenient to you and you travel is soon (I think within like 14 or 30 days), you can make an appointment to visit the Passport Office in Chicago (or wherever) and get your Passport the same day!

HINT: A Passport Card is less to obtain, if you only plan to visit Canada, Bermuda, the Carrabean and I think Mexico. But it is only good for land or sea crossings. If you fly, you'll need a regular Passport.

So a Passport Card would be valid if I wanted to take Amtrak to Canada (it is a land crossing....)? That's good to know, since it looks like the Passport Card is significantly cheaper than a Passport Book!

 

[Ryan]

Correct.

Passport card is also a great second form of ID that I seem to need once a year or so.

When you start a new job it also is a perfect "List A: Document that establishes identity and authorization to work". Easier to do than driver's license + birth certificate

 

[iowa train fan]

Update, my wife went to our state rep. and their office is going to try to expedite a acceptable copy of her birth certificate, will then have to hope we can get an expedited passport card to arrive in time so we can make a reservation for the Adirondack. I wish I had thought about all this when we originally made the plans. You guys are right, it does not hurt to have the passport card anyway just as a second form of ID.Live and learn. Please keep your fingers crossed that I will still be able to get a reservation, hope the train does not sell out. Thank you again

 

[BCL]

Update, my wife went to our state rep. and their office is going to try to expedite a acceptable copy of her birth certificate, will then have to hope we can get an expedited passport card to arrive in time so we can make a reservation for the Adirondack. I wish I had thought about all this when we originally made the plans. You guys are right, it does not hurt to have the passport card anyway just as a second form of ID.Live and learn. Please keep your fingers crossed that I will still be able to get a reservation, hope the train does not sell out. Thank you again

Just curious (and of course you don't have to answer if you don't want to) but what state? I was thinking it's probably a state where they use a computer generated abstract that might not include information unless specifically requested. Some states have applications for certified copies that ask what the purpose is for the request. If the purpose is to get a passport, they'll usually make sure all the info that the State Dept wants is there.

I mentioned Pennsylvania. Here's a sample that someone put up on a family geneology website:

Notice how much info is not included and that the city is left blank. The current form has several preprinted headings and doesn't even have a place for the city since they almost never used it anyways. I also saw a generic form that PA uses where anything can be displayed. The particular image I saw was of a delayed birth certificate.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Have you tried making the reservation online? It's been a while since I looked but it didn't seem to need my passport numbers in the past. Perhaps you just give a bogus number and then call to correct it before traveling or cancel it and rebook. I'm not sure how big of a deal this is to you but it's possible you can work this issue through multiple paths.

 

[JoeBas]

Given the current PARANOIA in this country regarding ID and "Sekuritee", I wouldn't recommend giving a bogus number. They'll probably evacuate the train weeks in advance out of an abundance of caution.

 

[amamba]

Update, my wife went to our state rep. and their office is going to try to expedite a acceptable copy of her birth certificate, will then have to hope we can get an expedited passport card to arrive in time so we can make a reservation for the Adirondack. I wish I had thought about all this when we originally made the plans. You guys are right, it does not hurt to have the passport card anyway just as a second form of ID.Live and learn. Please keep your fingers crossed that I will still be able to get a reservation, hope the train does not sell out. Thank you again

Just curious (and of course you don't have to answer if you don't want to) but what state? I was thinking it's probably a state where they use a computer generated abstract that might not include information unless specifically requested. Some states have applications for certified copies that ask what the purpose is for the request. If the purpose is to get a passport, they'll usually make sure all the info that the State Dept wants is there.

I mentioned Pennsylvania. Here's a sample that someone put up on a family geneology website:

Notice how much info is not included and that the city is left blank. The current form has several preprinted headings and doesn't even have a place for the city since they almost never used it anyways. I also saw a generic form that PA uses where anything can be displayed. The particular image I saw was of a delayed birth certificate.

That birth certificate will not work for many things - for example, for geneology projects they always want to see the name of the father and the mother. I am in the process of joining DAR and a birth certificate like that would not be considered sufficient.

 

[JoeBas]

It was a different country in 1918. People weren't so hung up and anal.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

It was a different country in 1918. People weren't so hung up and anal.

Yeah, back then nobody was hung up on silly anal things like equality and civil rights.

 

[Ryan]

I also don't think that they had dot matrix printers.

Amamba, I hear you on the DAR thing - my wife is pulling her papers together and the poor/missing documentation is a real pain in the neck.

 

[amamba]

I also don't think that they had dot matrix printers.
Amamba, I hear you on the DAR thing - my wife is pulling her papers together and the poor/missing documentation is a real pain in the neck.

It is a HUGE undertaking but also really fun! Hopefully her chapter has some younger folks in it - mine is me plus all the seniors.

 

[iowa train fan]

No I do not mind, we are in Pennsylvania too, she had bought the prior BD to get her driver's license when we moved back to PA from Iowa.

 

[zephyr17]

Have you tried making the reservation online? It's been a while since I looked but it didn't seem to need my passport numbers in the past. Perhaps you just give a bogus number and then call to correct it before traveling or cancel it and rebook. I'm not sure how big of a deal this is to you but it's possible you can work this issue through multiple paths.

I go to Vancouver on the Cascades quite a bit, and the website requires your documentation type and number (Passport/Passport Card/Enhanced Driver's license/Nexus card) to be entered in order to complete the registration. It has been like that for some years. In fact, when enhanced DLs came out, it took awhile before the site was updated to accept it.
If that section isn't filled out, you can't complete the reservation.

 

[BCL]

Update, my wife went to our state rep. and their office is going to try to expedite a acceptable copy of her birth certificate, will then have to hope we can get an expedited passport card to arrive in time so we can make a reservation for the Adirondack. I wish I had thought about all this when we originally made the plans. You guys are right, it does not hurt to have the passport card anyway just as a second form of ID.Live and learn. Please keep your fingers crossed that I will still be able to get a reservation, hope the train does not sell out. Thank you again

Just curious (and of course you don't have to answer if you don't want to) but what state? I was thinking it's probably a state where they use a computer generated abstract that might not include information unless specifically requested. Some states have applications for certified copies that ask what the purpose is for the request. If the purpose is to get a passport, they'll usually make sure all the info that the State Dept wants is there.

I mentioned Pennsylvania. Here's a sample that someone put up on a family geneology website:

Notice how much info is not included and that the city is left blank. The current form has several preprinted headings and doesn't even have a place for the city since they almost never used it anyways. I also saw a generic form that PA uses where anything can be displayed. The particular image I saw was of a delayed birth certificate.

That birth certificate will not work for many things - for example, for geneology projects they always want to see the name of the father and the mother. I am in the process of joining DAR and a birth certificate like that would not be considered sufficient.

The state itself says that walk-in requests may take up to five days to process, although I'm not sure why if it's pulled up from an electronic database. I suppose there's a chance that a birth record isn't in the database and they have to find the original record and enter the information into the database. They say that geneology requests may even take longer, as I I'm guessing they almost always will need to find info that isn't in a database and need to pull all that up from the original paper record. Or maybe for those requests they'll actually scan the original document and print the image on the security paper.

 

[BCL]

I also don't think that they had dot matrix printers.
Amamba, I hear you on the DAR thing - my wife is pulling her papers together and the poor/missing documentation is a real pain in the neck.

A lot of the examples I've seen of this particular document format were issued in the late 70s and early 80s. I think Pennsylvania was among the first to employ computerized records for birth documents, although it looks like they put in the bare minimum information. It was probably someone sitting at a keyboard with a bunch of original birth records entering them one at a time; lots of states that have gone mostly electronic have done this. However, once the first record was entered with minimal information, they probably didn't update the file unless they really had to (like for a post-2011 passport application). Around that time, electronic storage was at a premium. I even remember when there were punch cards and a 10 MB hard drive weighed about 20 lbs (my mom was given a dead one by her boss and I got to play with it). That kind of mission critical storage was expensive and you'd get things like two digit years and abbreviations to try to make the most of limited or expensive resources.

That particular doc looks like it was printed on an Epson MX-80 or a similar vintage printer. Even the newer ones look like they're printed with more modern dot-matrix printers and with two digit years. I think they might even at the point where there are people nearing or over 100 who are going to have issues with the birth certificates because they don't have four-digit years.

Pennsylvania seems to have gotten into computerized records early, but apparently they haven't updated their underlying software to at least take advantage of cheaper storage. I'm thinking they probably just had someone reprogram the software to be compatible with newer equipment but didn't change what it could actually do.

 

[BCL]

It was a different country in 1918. People weren't so hung up and anal.

I'm pretty sure that the original document (or at least some electronic/microfilm/photostat image of it) is on file somewhere. There's probably a document out there with specific family information, the name/signature of the attendant, and signatures.

 

[SarahZ]

It was a different country in 1918. People weren't so hung up and anal.

Yeah, back then nobody was hung up on silly anal things like equality and civil rights.

Because they were too busy fighting in WWI and working 80-hour weeks alongside their children.

 

[JoeBas]

In other words, worrying about real problems instead of inventing new ones.

 

[SarahZ]

My response was sarcastic. I don't have any problem with being required to prove who I am and that I have a right to enter other countries when I travel abroad, and I say that as someone who misses how easy it used to be to go to Canada for dinner whenever we got tired of the restaurants in Ann Arbor and Detroit.