Oh my goodness, trying to get a passport?

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I find the requirement about a parent quite odd - but certainly not the only oddity in this quagmire.
I learned in the above mentioned course that the USA uses jus loci to determine citizenship. This means that place of birth determines citizenship. If you are born within the boundaries of the US you are a US citizen; case closed. Jus sanguinis is the system that uses parentage to determine citizenship; this prevails throughout Europe.

We also learned that Congress has sole plenary power in this realm, significantly not subject to judicial review. It seems odd that the State Dept could make this requirement as this is in the executive branch. However, the whole issue is immensely complicated.
The legal term is jus soli ("right of the soil" or sometimes "law of the soil"). Additionally, the US practices a form of jus sanguins. It gets complicated because Congress has passed various laws for statutory jus sanguins citizenship over the years using a complex determination depending on the citizenship status of the father, the mother, marriage status, age of the mother at time of birth, etc. Even if jus sanguins citizenship isn't passed on to a child at birth, it's almost trivial for a US citizen parent to bring a child into the US and immediately apply for naturalization.

7 FAM 1100 ACQUISITION AND RETENTION OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP AND NATIONALITY

7 FAM 1111 INTRODUCTION
(CT:CON-407; 06-29-2012)

a. U.S. citizenship may be acquired either at birth or through naturalization subsequent to birth. U.S. laws governing the acquisition of citizenship at birth embody two legal principles:

(1) Jus soli (the law of the soil) - a rule of common law under which the place of a person’s birth determines citizenship. In addition to common law, this principle is embodied in the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution and the various U.S. citizenship and nationality statutes.

(2) Jus sanguinis (the law of the bloodline) - a concept of Roman or civil law under which a person’s citizenship is determined by the citizenship of one or both parents. This rule, frequently called “citizenship by descent” or “derivative citizenship”, is not embodied in the U.S. Constitution, but such citizenship is granted through statute. As U.S. laws have changed, the requirements for conferring and retaining derivative citizenship have also changed.
There are other documents that can be used to document jus sanguins US citizenship. The current document is issued by the State Dept and is called the "Consular Report of Birth Abroad".

And don't even get started with non-citizen US nationality.
 
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The most recent statistics issued by the state department in January 2013 is that about 39% of the US Population have passports, excluding passport cards.

This compares to about 67% of British and 71 % of EU members having passports and 53% of Canadians holding passports.
 
My copy of the birth certificate was accepted by PO, they would not accept my wife's, did not have parent's information on it even know she paid 80 dollars to get this copy a year ago. State department will not accept. Now I need to try to get a hold of my federal representative and see if he can expedite and help to get a new copy of her BC.
Forget the federal representative. Birth Certificates are a state issue. Find out how to contact the agency that provides them. Forget third parties that claim to be able to speed things up. The only thing they are really speeding up is the rate of departure of money from your wallet. There is usually a short form and a long form. Sounds like you need the long form. Be sure you make clear what you want. You want a certified copy of the long form. Don't know how convenient it is to you, but for some at least you can go to their office and pick it up the same day. Some do have a service that expedites delivery, but find out how it works from the agency, not from some third party.

Went through that a few months back. My state of birth is Tennessee. Was able to handle it all on line. Maybe there was a phone call involved. Memory fades. But is was relatively painless.

Have no idea what state, but if you paid $80, I suspect you were skinned.
 
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If you are local to a passport office just go in person - they can do it same day. My h got one same day in Boston about ten years ago.
 
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We never planned on ever traveling outside the United States and never had need for a passport. Shame on us for being naive about the whole process. When we first thought about the trip, we did not realize it was such a pain to get one. Oh stupid me!!!!!! Only then did we start doing the research and ran into all these issues. The biggest thing that upset us was the fact that the post office would not accept her BD. I have not looked real close but from what I can see, it does not say anywhere in the paper work I saw that parents information must be listed on the BD, she just bought this last year to get her drivers license changed from Iowa to Pennsylvania. Thank you to all for the great advice!
 
When I got a passport the post office wouldn't accept the birth certificate I had used for my entire life either. I had to get a copy from the county and go back when I had that in hand. I didn't know there was a problem with the original one but I think it was issued by the hospital instead of the government. I didn't have the time issues that you're under and I'm wishing you good luck with a frustrating situation. As soon as she has her documents you can expedite it. (For some extra $ of course)
 
Once when I needed to get an additional book of pages added to my US Passport, I just walked into the Calcutta Consulate ( I happened to be in Calcutta when I realized I will have difficulty on my stopovers on the way back) and asked them to get it done. I had my Passport back with the additional pages within a couple of hours. Incidentally, the Calcutta Consulate is considered to be one of the dozen or so oldest continuously operating US Consular Offices. It used to be the US Embassy in British India.

When I got my first Passport I used my Naturalization Certificate, which of course they accepted without a fuss. Afterall it would be really odd for them to not accept a certificate that they gave me with much fanfare the previous day. :)
 
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Thanks for the clarifications, y'all, about requiring passport numbers for reservations.
Still seems odd to me. I understand that cross-border transport would have different rules. But come to think of it, when I made airline reservations to/from Pittsburgh and Canada (for that trip on the Canadian), passport numbers weren't required to buy those tickets--although of course we'll have to have our passports with us when we actually travel.
But when you fly, you have to check in and provide that info if they didn't get it before. So the agent at the ticket counter types it into the computer. On Amtrak some stations have no agent. Some stations don't even have a building. So if Amtrak doesn't collect it in advance, there is no way to get it into the computer.
 
Your representative can't help in getting a birth certificate. He may be able to help to push a passport application through once all the documents are in order. If you know where your wife was born, use VitalChek.com to order a new birth certificate. They can get them in a matter of days. Parent's names are required to be accepted by the State Department, though. If you have a choice between ordering a "short form" or "long form" birth certificate, chose the "long form" as the short form usually is missing something as far as the State Department is concerned. If you have to go through secondary proof of citizenship, that could take a lot more documentation.

Once you have an acceptable birth certificate, paying for expedited service with the State Department should get you the passports in about 2 weeks.

Passports have always been required for most international travel. The fact that we could go back and forth to Canada with little more than a driver's license and answering the question "Where were you born" were the exception, and those days are long gone.

I've had a valid passport since 1986 and always keep it. They are very handy things to have, the gold standard of ID.
 
We never planned on ever traveling outside the United States and never had need for a passport. Shame on us for being naive about the whole process. When we first thought about the trip, we did not realize it was such a pain to get one. Oh stupid me!!!!!! Only then did we start doing the research and ran into all these issues. The biggest thing that upset us was the fact that the post office would not accept her BD. I have not looked real close but from what I can see, it does not say anywhere in the paper work I saw that parents information must be listed on the BD, she just bought this last year to get her drivers license changed from Iowa to Pennsylvania. Thank you to all for the great advice!
But -- once you get the passport document - it can be a hassle sometimes -- once you have it - with its hard-to-tamper picture and its rfid encrypted link to all the databases.

You are good to go "almost anywhere" -- not North Korea - but who wants to go there .
 
Once when I needed to get an additional book of pages added to my US Passport, I just walked into the Calcutta Consulate...Incidentally, the Calcutta Consulate is considered to be one of the dozen or so oldest continuously operating US Consular Offices. It used to be the US Embassy in British India.
Ha ha, it's the one on Ho Chi Minh St. To their credit, when the street name was changed, they accepted it without much fuss and changed all their letterheads and everything.
On the other hand, it's been many years since you could 'walk into' the consulate in Kolkata.

This isn't off topic at all because there are so many wonderful trains in India. Admittedly, none of them are Amtrak.
 
My copy of the birth certificate was accepted by PO, they would not accept my wife's, did not have parent's information on it even know she paid 80 dollars to get this copy a year ago. State department will not accept. Now I need to try to get a hold of my federal representative and see if he can expedite and help to get a new copy of her BC.
Forget the federal representative. Birth Certificates are a state issue. Find out how to contact the agency that provides them. Forget third parties that claim to be able to speed things up. The only thing they are really speeding up is the rate of departure of money from your wallet. There is usually a short form and a long form. Sounds like you need the long form. Be sure you make clear what you want. You want a certified copy of the long form. Don't know how convenient it is to you, but for some at least you can go to their office and pick it up the same day. Some do have a service that expedites delivery, but find out how it works from the agency, not from some third party.

Went through that a few months back. My state of birth is Tennessee. Was able to handle it all on line. Maybe there was a phone call involved. Memory fades. But is was relatively painless.

Have no idea what state, but if you paid $80, I suspect you were skinned.
Birth certificates are generally a local issue depending on the place of birth. In California, the most common place to get a birth certificate is at a county recorder's office. A few cities even handle birth certificates, although all of them eventually send them to the county. All counties eventually send them to the state, which maintains the final archive. The state can issue them, but they have no counter service so all requests for full copies (which can be used to obtain identity documents) must be by mail along with a notorization of the requester's photo ID. One would need that anyways if sent to a city/county office, but every one has counter service where one can produce the ID in person. Each city/county would store the image as an electronic scan and/or on some microform.

New York City issues its own birth certificates and maintains its own archive. They don't send them off to the state, which is what happens in the rest of the state (where one can make a request via some cities or straight to a state office). If available in the rest of NY state, it might make sense to get it from the city, since most charge as little as $10 while the state is $30. I've seen some call the "long form" a "photo birth certificate" and charge more (Buffalo is $25). Some states only handle them as a state matter, including Ohio and Hawaii.

And some third parties are the only way to get expedited service if you can't get to an office in person. Lots of local/state agencies will only do remote expedited service via VitalChek or some other company (I remember one but can't recall the name).

Also - the State Dept doesn't generally care if it's "long form" vs "short form" or if it's some kind of printout or an image of the originally prepared document with original signatures or not. They have requirements for full name, date of birth, place of birth, at least one parent's name, seal of the registrar (or other head of the issuing authority), and the date that the original certificate was filed. The filing date generally has to be less than a year after the DOB, but there are exceptions if the form indicates that the attendant certified the birth, if there's strong documentation indicating the accuracy (this happens with some court ordered birth certificate forms), or if the form shows there was a parental affidavit on the form. Some agencies have special forms for delayed birth certificates that include space to list the reason why the birth certificate was filed late and who certified it.

There are some odd cases, but the State Dept doesn't generally publicize them. One is that the "abstract" that used to be available in California is no longer acceptable. That one apparently didn't even have a registrar's seal and had so few security features that it was easy to forge. Another is that in Texas there's been cases of midwife fraud, where midwives had falsely certified births as occuring in Texas. The State Dept wants to see the "full version" which can be obtained but may take longer to get. What they're looking for is the name of the attendant. The State Dept has a list of suspect midwives and certain ones will draw additional scrutiny. Another weird case is in Hudson County, New Jersey - where several employees had been taking money to generate birth certificates for births that didn't occur there. The State Dept and other agencies are on alert to not take birth certificates from Hudson County. One can obtain one from the city of birth or from the state.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/voices/index.ssf/2011/05/daily_poll_is_it_fair_that_som.html
Hudson County is no stranger to scandals.

Heck, more Hudson County pols and political figures were arrested in the infamous Operation Bid Rig III sting of 2009 than other county in the state.

The year 2004 was also a stand-out year for the county on the corruption front.

That year, it was discovered that workers inside the County Clerk's Office were selling phony birth certificates. The fakes, as it turned out, had a common denominator: they were all for people who listed 1965 or before as their birth year.

Since then, most Hudson County residents born in 1965 or before have had to jump through hoops with Trenton to obtain a valid birth record; and they've had to pay a $25 fee for the new, certified document. (A handful of Hudson municipalities were not affected because they processed their own birth certificates).
 
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Your representative can't help in getting a birth certificate. He may be able to help to push a passport application through once all the documents are in order. If you know where your wife was born, use VitalChek.com to order a new birth certificate. They can get them in a matter of days. Parent's names are required to be accepted by the State Department, though. If you have a choice between ordering a "short form" or "long form" birth certificate, chose the "long form" as the short form usually is missing something as far as the State Department is concerned. If you have to go through secondary proof of citizenship, that could take a lot more documentation.
Once you have an acceptable birth certificate, paying for expedited service with the State Department should get you the passports in about 2 weeks.

Passports have always been required for most international travel. The fact that we could go back and forth to Canada with little more than a driver's license and answering the question "Where were you born" were the exception, and those days are long gone.

I've had a valid passport since 1986 and always keep it. They are very handy things to have, the gold standard of ID.
There's nothing about most "short forms" that (for the vast majority of birth certificates) that creates an issue with the State Dept. There are a few exceptions, and I noted Texas and California's now invalid abstract form. The only issue for most cases is if the form doesn't list all the information that the State Dept wants to see. Some certificates have left out parental names. I noted Pennsylvania as one where this was common. There are some states/counties/cities where they issue nothing but computer generated abstracts, including Pennsylvania, New York City (unless born before they went to all electronic filing), Hawaii (unless you're the President and ask nicely), and Ohio.

A lot of states now only record births via electronic filing from the hospital (think e-filing taxes). It might be possible to fill out a paper form for home or emergency births, but most people are born in hospitals. The printout versions are perfectly adequate the majority of purposes, including getting a passport.
 
We never planned on ever traveling outside the United States and never had need for a passport. Shame on us for being naive about the whole process. When we first thought about the trip, we did not realize it was such a pain to get one.
Except for a couple of trips to Europe in the 1980's, I've never have been out of the US and needed a Passport. Yet I got one and renewed it ever since. (I grew up in upstate NYS and went to Canada quite often, but that was when the crossing was easy.)

When my sister and BIL flew to Asia in 2005, they needed their Passport numbers to reserve the flights.

Even though I don't plan to travel internationally, I still would rather have a Passport and/or a Passport Card and not need it than not have them and need them. (I have both.) You never know if say you find yourself in Niagara Falls, NY and want to go to Niagara Falls, ON or find yourself in Detroit and want to go to Windsor or find yourself in Seattle NTD want to spend the day in Vancouver, BC.

To the OP, if it's convenient to you and you travel is soon (I think within like 14 or 30 days), you can make an appointment to visit the Passport Office in Chicago (or wherever) and get your Passport the same day!

HINT: A Passport Card is less to obtain, if you only plan to visit Canada, Bermuda, the Carrabean and I think Mexico. But it is only good for land or sea crossings. If you fly, you'll need a regular Passport.
 
HINT: A Passport Card is less to obtain, if you only plan to visit Canada, Bermuda, the Carrabean and I think Mexico. But it is only good for land or sea crossings. If you fly, you'll need a regular Passport.
I've got one simply because it's easy proof of citizenship that fits in my wallet along with my credit cards. I paid $20 for mine, processed as a "renewal" since I already had a valid passport book.

And once you have a passport or passport card you'll never need to go through passport acceptance (post office or other facility) ever again as long as you've got one that hasn't expired yet or has been expired less than five years.

Also - most passport offices only take expedited requests except for special "passport days". On those days (usually Saturdays) they'll take routine requests and don't charge the $25 "acceptance fee". That fee is always paid out to the acceptance facility and not the State Dept.
 
There is one other benefit of the passport card which is that it is the only form of ID which does not expose your address and state of origin to everyone that sees it. I often use it when I am not driving for that reason.
 
Thanks for the clarifications, y'all, about requiring passport numbers for reservations.
Still seems odd to me. I understand that cross-border transport would have different rules. But come to think of it, when I made airline reservations to/from Pittsburgh and Canada (for that trip on the Canadian), passport numbers weren't required to buy those tickets--although of course we'll have to have our passports with us when we actually travel.
AFAIK, all US airlines check passports at the gate before allowing a passenger to board a plane bound for an international destination -- in this case, Canada. So, there is no penalty to the airline for having to pay passage to send you back to the USA -- you wouldn't have gotton on the plane in the first place. And, if you purchase airline tickets for such an international trip without a valid passport, then it is your problem, not the airline's, and you might not even have a legitimate argument to get a full ticket refund from the airline.

A couple years ago, I had a scienfic colleague who was coming to a big conference from a European country. Although he was a regular traveler to the USA, and would only be in the USA on this trip for 5 days, he was denied boarding of his flight at the gate because his passport had less that 6 months validity remaining -- the US officials in this European country turned him away and he missed the entire meeting.
 
A lot of countries require 3 or 6 months remaining validity on a passport to allow entry, not just the US. European countries in the Schengen area require 3 months remaining validity, regardless of length of stay. If you don't have the length of validity the admitting country requires, you will be denied entry regardless of the reason why you are traveling.
 
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Thanks for the clarifications, y'all, about requiring passport numbers for reservations.
Still seems odd to me. I understand that cross-border transport would have different rules. But come to think of it, when I made airline reservations to/from Pittsburgh and Canada (for that trip on the Canadian), passport numbers weren't required to buy those tickets--although of course we'll have to have our passports with us when we actually travel.
AFAIK, all US airlines check passports at the gate before allowing a passenger to board a plane bound for an international destination -- in this case, Canada. So, there is no penalty to the airline for having to pay passage to send you back to the USA -- you wouldn't have gotton on the plane in the first place. And, if you purchase airline tickets for such an international trip without a valid passport, then it is your problem, not the airline's, and you might not even have a legitimate argument to get a full ticket refund from the airline.

A couple years ago, I had a scienfic colleague who was coming to a big conference from a European country. Although he was a regular traveler to the USA, and would only be in the USA on this trip for 5 days, he was denied boarding of his flight at the gate because his passport had less that 6 months validity remaining -- the US officials in this European country turned him away and he missed the entire meeting.
That's not exactly how it works. For an international destination, if you check-in at the counter, and that's where they'll check your travel documents to be sure that they're valid for the country of travel before issuing a boarding pass. If you check-in online, you'll need to enter your travel document information. Then the travel documents will be checked at the security line and marked by security (I say security and not TSA because some airports still hire private security). Once at the gate, the only thing required will be the boarding pass.

The real ironic thing is that airlines typically won't check if a passenger has the correct travel documents to return to the US. I can speak from experience regarding someone I was traveling with who brought the wrong document thinking it was a US Permanent Resident Card. It was actually an unexpired work authorization document that looked similar to the green card at the time. They've actually upgraded the look (now has a representation of the Statue of Liberty) of the green card so that it's hard to make that mistake. The work authorization document says "Not Valid for Travel".
 
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Not necessarily. It depends on the airline and the country. When I traveled to South Korea last year, my passport was checked at the check-in counter (no online check-in for that airline). All passengers had their passports checked again at the gate before being allowed to board.

The same thing happened on my return flight at Seoul.
 
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There is one other benefit of the passport card which is that it is the only form of ID which does not expose your address and state of origin to everyone that sees it. I often use it when I am not driving for that reason.
US Passports don't require Address and State of Origin, although ,of course, they show your Place of Birth!
 
Not necessarily. It depends on the airline and the country. When I traveled to South Korea last year, my passport was checked at the check-in counter (no online check-in for that airline). All passengers had their passports checked again at the gate before being allowed to board.
The same thing happened on my return flight at Seoul.
Same is true for India and Israel. Israel also has secondary security check at the gate, with a fenced of holding area for those that have been cleared by secondary security.
 
There's nothing about most "short forms" that (for the vast majority of birth certificates) that creates an issue with the State Dept. There are a few exceptions, and I noted Texas and California's now invalid abstract form. The only issue for most cases is if the form doesn't list all the information that the State Dept wants to see. Some certificates have left out parental names. I noted Pennsylvania as one where this was common. There are some states/counties/cities where they issue nothing but computer generated abstracts, including Pennsylvania, New York City (unless born before they went to all electronic filing), Hawaii (unless you're the President and ask nicely), and Ohio.
A lot of states now only record births via electronic filing from the hospital (think e-filing taxes). It might be possible to fill out a paper form for home or emergency births, but most people are born in hospitals. The printout versions are perfectly adequate the majority of purposes, including getting a passport.
Your other post: Wow!! I had no idea there were so many odd and strange arrangements for birth certificates in this country. All states where I have been involved with birth certificate issues for self or family conducted this stuff on a state level.

Off the subject, but one issue where parents names are a necessity is if you are wanting resident visas for your family in another country. That I had to have for all my children: "Long form" birth certificates showing that I was the father before I could get visas for my children to be with me when I was working overseas.

Many people from my parents generation and back either never had birth certificates or got them as adults because they were born at home.

A comment: Even if I never intend to travel outside the country again, I do intend to keep a valid passport to the end of my days. (I do have some overseas trips I would still like to make.)
 
There's nothing about most "short forms" that (for the vast majority of birth certificates) that creates an issue with the State Dept. There are a few exceptions, and I noted Texas and California's now invalid abstract form. The only issue for most cases is if the form doesn't list all the information that the State Dept wants to see. Some certificates have left out parental names. I noted Pennsylvania as one where this was common. There are some states/counties/cities where they issue nothing but computer generated abstracts, including Pennsylvania, New York City (unless born before they went to all electronic filing), Hawaii (unless you're the President and ask nicely), and Ohio.
A lot of states now only record births via electronic filing from the hospital (think e-filing taxes). It might be possible to fill out a paper form for home or emergency births, but most people are born in hospitals. The printout versions are perfectly adequate the majority of purposes, including getting a passport.
Your other post: Wow!! I had no idea there were so many odd and strange arrangements for birth certificates in this country. All states where I have been involved with birth certificate issues for self or family conducted this stuff on a state level.
Off the subject, but one issue where parents names are a necessity is if you are wanting resident visas for your family in another country. That I had to have for all my children: "Long form" birth certificates showing that I was the father before I could get visas for my children to be with me when I was working overseas.

Many people from my parents generation and back either never had birth certificates or got them as adults because they were born at home.

A comment: Even if I never intend to travel outside the country again, I do intend to keep a valid passport to the end of my days. (I do have some overseas trips I would still like to make.)
Since my kid was born in California, I know there's a standard state form. The state authorizes both cities and counties to issue certified copies of birth records, although very few cities do. My kid was born in one of those cities. In fact, we've got versions from the city, county, and state. They all show the same information, but the images all look somewhat like a FAX with pixelation, and the multiple copies from the same agency show the same exact pixelation. So basically each agency stores a B&W image and just prints it out on security paper. There's a requirement for a standard format, and all birth certificate issuers look the same although they probably source their paper from different suppliers. I suppose if it ever really became necessarily, the original document archived in Sacramento could be pulled to make a new image.

I can't find it anywhere else except on the ACLU website, but this is the settlement agreement for Caselano v. Clinton, regarding the issuance of passports for several people born in Texas of Mexican descent who were originally denied. If you check the city/county clerk offices in Texas where birth certificates are issued, they typically make note that they recommend the "long form" be ordered if the birth certificate will be submitted with a passport application. They don't say why, but it's because the passport adjudicators want to see the name of the attendant to compare to their list of suspected attendants who they believe have fraudulently signed off on birth certificates.

http://www.aclu.org/files/pdfs/racialjustice/castelanovclinton_agreement.pdf

Plaintiffs, on behalf of themselves and those who are similarly situated, have alleged that the Department of State has engaged in a policy, pattern, and practice of categorically applying heightened scrutiny to a class of passport applicants whose births in Southwestern border states were attended by midwives or birth attendants or whose citizenship is claimed through a parent whose birth in a Southwestern border state was attended by a midwife or birth attendant.
Plaintiffs allege that the Department of State impermissibly and unlawfully applies a heightened burden of proof to these passport applications, subjecting the

applicants to burdensome, unreasonable, and excessive demands for documentation of birth in the United States that go far beyond what other applicants are required to submit. Plaintiffs further allege that, even after applicants respond to the demands for additional information, the Department of State, without a proper individualized, evidence-based adjudication of the merits of each application, arbitrarily deems their applications “filed without further action” or otherwise abandoned and closed and refuses to issue them passports.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/05/us/texas-immigration-midwives

The women's lives have taken different paths since the days they were born.
Brenda Vazquez is a 29-year-old elementary school teacher in Matamoros, Mexico. Laura Castro lives across the border in Brownsville, Texas. She is a 32-year-old housewife who helps her husband manage several stores.

They share one thing in common: Both say they were delivered by midwives in south Texas, but pressured by U.S. Border Patrol agents to deny their U.S. citizenship.

Their problems began, according to attorney Jaime Diez, when a group of midwives along the U.S.-Mexico border were found guilty of selling birth certificates to people who were not born in the United States.

"Now all the midwives in the area are suspected of committing fraud," said Diez, who said his office regularly sees cases of people delivered by midwives in Texas. Some of them are struggling to get passports because officials question the validity of their birth certificates, he said. Others have been deported and had their identification documents confiscated at the border, he said.
 
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