New York - Boston question

[stonesfan]

Hi folks

Have just sampled an Acela from NYP to Boston, and then a regional toaster back again a few days later. As ever, on both occasions (and unlike what is the British rail experience these days) , I was treated well and provided with a comfortable seat. Both services ran on time too.

However a question I have for those who know the route well, is why the slow running on the 4 track section from NY to about 80 odd minutes North? Obviously tight curves, bridges etc explain themselves, as do some of tight track alignments on coastal part of the route further North. But there seemed to be lots of long, straight 4 track section of which we were plodding along at 40mph-60mph for quite some time. The track, visually and judging from the ride seemed as good as what we have on 100mph+ sections of track in the UK. The on time arrivals suggest there were no unexpected delays. There was some engineering works on the line, in fact, one of the concrete sleeper centre roads was rusty for quite a few miles and actually severed in one section.

But just a bit puzzled as to why a 4 track main line produced such staggering when it felt we should be flying down the centre roads!

I'm sure someone can provide an explanation.

Cheers.

 

[the_traveler]

On the southern/western portion in Connecticut, the tracks were set many, many years ago with tight alignments - and buildings grew around them. In fact, it is so tight in spots that 2 Acelas can not pass each other at speed, thus reducing the speed limit. On the northern/eastern portion in Connecticut, there are grade crossings (the only grade crossings on the NEC!) - thus keeping the speed limit down to 79 MPH!

 

[nferr]

That's Metro-North Railroad territory, Amtrak doesn't own that section. Lots of commuter trains and I think the maximum track speed is set at 79 MPH. Quite a few old bridges and lots of stations too. I live in the area.

 

[stonesfan]

That's Metro-North Railroad territory, Amtrak doesn't own that section. Lots of commuter trains and I think the maximum track speed is set at 79 MPH. Quite a few old bridges and lots of stations too. I live in the area.

I see. With any luck the great hope Obama might just bang a few heads together and get that section sorted out. I'd say you would save a good 15 mins off of the NY - Boston timings if a steady 100mph could be achieved on the straight sections.

Although I guess his longer term plan is to build a new line altogether........

 

[jis]

That's Metro-North Railroad territory, Amtrak doesn't own that section. Lots of commuter trains and I think the maximum track speed is set at 79 MPH. Quite a few old bridges and lots of stations too. I live in the area.

MAS is 90mph in short stretches in New York State on the New Haven Line. It is 79/80mph in CT.

 

[cpamtfan]

That's Metro-North Railroad territory, Amtrak doesn't own that section. Lots of commuter trains and I think the maximum track speed is set at 79 MPH. Quite a few old bridges and lots of stations too. I live in the area.

I see. With any luck the great hope Obama might just bang a few heads together and get that section sorted out. I'd say you would save a good 15 mins off of the NY - Boston timings if a steady 100mph could be achieved on the straight sections.

Although I guess his longer term plan is to build a new line altogether........

See, thats the problem. There is no real way to fix it, or make it faster. Its built into a rocky area, plus the fact that many people and businesses have taken shop right along the tracks, so they can't be realigned. And 15 minutes doesn't seem like alot of time shaved off, and in this case it is impossible to realign the route and infistructure along the route, so in the end I don't believe much of anything will be changed.

 

[the_traveler]

That's Metro-North Railroad territory, Amtrak doesn't own that section. Lots of commuter trains and I think the maximum track speed is set at 79 MPH. Quite a few old bridges and lots of stations too. I live in the area.

I see. With any luck the great hope Obama might just bang a few heads together and get that section sorted out. I'd say you would save a good 15 mins off of the NY - Boston timings if a steady 100mph could be achieved on the straight sections.

Although I guess his longer term plan is to build a new line altogether........

Actually, he really has not much say about it, because being Metro-North territory, that section of the line is OWNED by Metro-North too - so they control the trains! And as mentioned, also in that stretch are (IIRC) 4 bridges over rivers that are over (or near) 100 years old!

 

[stonesfan]

That's Metro-North Railroad territory, Amtrak doesn't own that section. Lots of commuter trains and I think the maximum track speed is set at 79 MPH. Quite a few old bridges and lots of stations too. I live in the area.

I see. With any luck the great hope Obama might just bang a few heads together and get that section sorted out. I'd say you would save a good 15 mins off of the NY - Boston timings if a steady 100mph could be achieved on the straight sections.

Although I guess his longer term plan is to build a new line altogether........

Actually, he really has not much say about it, because being Metro-North territory, that section of the line is OWNED by Metro-North too - so they control the trains! And as mentioned, also in that stretch are (IIRC) 4 bridges over rivers that are over (or near) 100 years old!

I see, so it becomes more of a political issue if draconian measures were to be brought forward to benefit Amtrak services when the actual infrastructure is owned by a private company.

In the UK the track is owned by Network Rail, which was a private company, but is now more or less bankrolled by the Govt, and the trains run by private companies, ie Virgin Trains and National Express. And yes, virtually all train companies receive HUGE funding from the state thanks to their greed and incompetence.

I guess taking the entire infrastructure (not the train operators) into government hands would be massive and vote winning/losing issue.......

 

[AlanB]

Metro North isn't really a private company, it's a public entity controlled by NY State. They own the tracks from New Rochelle, NY to the Connecticut border. From the border north to New Haven, the tracks are actually owned by the State of CT. They contract Metro North to run the trains over the border and set the prices for rides in CT.

The bigger problem is that there are many influential riders in CT who don't like their express trains being tossed behind locals to allow for the faster Amtrak trains to pass by.

Speeds could probably be increased in many places without too much effort and no realignments. Right now they are working on putting in constant tension catenary, which holds down speeds at present. Once that project is completed we might see more 90 MPH sections. There are some big curves, like at Bridgeport, where nothing but realignment can help. There are also probably sections where speeds could be increased over 90 MPH, except that I don't believe that the signaling system can handle that, so it would need improvements and reworking.

No matter what we'll never seen Acela's top speed of 150 MPH simply because the tilt mechanism cannot be used because the track centers are too close. A train tilting going around a curve could potentially hit another train passing by on an adjacent track. However, even without tilt, Acela should still be able to do 125 as the old Metroliners used to do 125 without tilting.

 

[stonesfan]

The bigger problem is that there are many influential riders in CT who don't like their express trains being tossed behind locals to allow for the faster Amtrak trains to pass by.

That probably explains an awful lot before you even start to get technical!

The OHLE equipment was pretty spectacular though. Huge rusty behemoths of various shapes and sizes. A bit like some of our stuff on the Great Eastern Commuter lines which has turned a sickly lime green colour over time.....

 

[battalion51]

The Mets are doing some work, but the amount of money that it would take to upgrade the tracks for just 10-15 MPH is hard to justify. There are many more places like Virginia, North Carolina, Illinois, Florida, and California where those dollars can be better spent. The M-8's have a MSP of 100 MPH, so it's unlikely you'll ever see anything above that on The Mets since they don't want Amtrak outpacing their trains. As of right now though you do have 100 MPH operations from Pelham to CP216...